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[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 304

Forum Index > LoL General
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Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
January 06 2013 02:57 GMT
#6061
How are people building jungle VI? Runes/Masteries/Items. Pretty lost as she feels like she can go all out tank or all out damage.
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
Eppa!
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden4641 Posts
January 06 2013 03:03 GMT
#6062
You want brutalizer on IBG Ez for slow chaining.
"Can't wait till Monday" Cixah+Waveofshadow. "Needs to be monday. Weekend please go by quickly." Gahlo
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
January 06 2013 03:13 GMT
#6063
On January 06 2013 11:57 Diamond wrote:
How are people building jungle VI? Runes/Masteries/Items. Pretty lost as she feels like she can go all out tank or all out damage.

I feel like I do no damage at all if I don't build a phage or bruta very early, and transform it as my 3rd major item at the latest. Her strength is really in autoattacking (dem W procs) but she has a hard time sticking to people (Q's animation and the knock-back can make it awkward to stay in range/follow up, also mobility creep) so during the initiation phase of the teamfight I feel like I do absolutely nothing unless they forget to peel me (most people don't, interestingly, despite full damage Vi being less peeled from what I've seen in my games... she is the bigger threat since she has actual burst and his way easier to kill tho, puzzles me).

Maybe I just don't gank enough.
Faster runes are AS marks AD quints, if you want to run other quints (MS, defensive, etc.) then run AS marks over AD marks, especially if you start with W (you should, you don't proc your shield on the big camp but you kill stuff faster), it makes you clear with the same time but about 100 HP more.
I tried several masteries, 21-9-0 and 0-21-9 mainly, haven't really noticed a difference in damage so I'm pretty frustrated with how to do damage without gimping my defense (I don't want to have burst if it means I won't live to also have dps since Vi's dps > her burst by far). I guess I'll ditch locket for now, I really want a real armor item faster and an early phage covers my HP needs. Also delays my boots for too long.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
January 06 2013 03:21 GMT
#6064
On January 06 2013 12:03 Eppa! wrote:
You want brutalizer on IBG Ez for slow chaining.

The way Chaox does it seems to be like this:

Open with long sword and 2pots, then turn that long sword into brutalizer or vamp scepter. Usually he'll have brutalizer and vamp as his first two items. Then if he's rolling his lane he'll go bf sword or sometimes he'll get sheen if he doesn't have enough gold. He only finally buys boots when laning phase is over, and usually he'll finish BT as his first big item, but if teamfights begin rather early then he'll finish iceborn before BT. Regardless of what is bought first, he'll finish the other right after (BT/iceborn). Then LW, then BC.
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
January 06 2013 03:35 GMT
#6065
On January 06 2013 12:21 koreasilver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 12:03 Eppa! wrote:
You want brutalizer on IBG Ez for slow chaining.

The way Chaox does it seems to be like this:

Open with long sword and 2pots, then turn that long sword into brutalizer or vamp scepter. Usually he'll have brutalizer and vamp as his first two items. Then if he's rolling his lane he'll go bf sword or sometimes he'll get sheen if he doesn't have enough gold. He only finally buys boots when laning phase is over, and usually he'll finish BT as his first big item, but if teamfights begin rather early then he'll finish iceborn before BT. Regardless of what is bought first, he'll finish the other right after (BT/iceborn). Then LW, then BC.

The guide on LoLPro from Cop says

boots 3 -> dorans/vamp -> bt -> sheen -> IBG -> other ad shit
not sure about the dorans, they arent bad but idk about double dorans then vamp
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-06 03:39:42
January 06 2013 03:37 GMT
#6066
Iceborn seems extremely un-compelling to me in comparison to Triforce.

It has a "cool" active but it's stats/cost is very lacking when you account for the fact that more than half of its gold value is sunk into AP+Mana. It's 1900 gold worth of AP and mana on a 3400 gold item. The passive doesn't make up for that when both stats are of secondary usefulness to Ezzy.
Moderator
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 06 2013 03:39 GMT
#6067
On January 06 2013 12:37 TheYango wrote:
Iceborn seems extremely un-compelling to me in comparison to Triforce.

It has a "cool" active but it's stats/cost is very lacking when you account for the fact that more than half of its gold value is sunk into AP+Mana.

it's amazing on ez though... 100% slow proc is freaking ridiculous, turns every champ in to ashe.
liftlift > tsm
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
January 06 2013 03:40 GMT
#6068
Smite/TP Yi everywhere. Why? @_@ (Apart from "I saw a pro do it!".)
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Zooper31
Profile Joined May 2009
United States5713 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-06 03:42:17
January 06 2013 03:41 GMT
#6069
On January 06 2013 12:37 TheYango wrote:
Iceborn seems extremely un-compelling to me in comparison to Triforce.

It has a "cool" active but it's stats/cost is very lacking when you account for the fact that more than half of its gold value is sunk into AP+Mana.


On command massive AoE slow is what you're paying for and the ability to forever be able to catch anyone. You also get a nice chunk of mana to spam spells more leisurely, the ap is of course nice on Ez for his spells and you get some nice armor too to make you tankier. You will do less dmg than TF but you will have more utility, be tankier and be able to fight longer.
Asato ma sad gamaya, tamaso ma jyotir gamaya, mrtyor mamrtam gamaya
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-06 03:44:58
January 06 2013 03:42 GMT
#6070
On January 06 2013 12:39 wei2coolman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 12:37 TheYango wrote:
Iceborn seems extremely un-compelling to me in comparison to Triforce.

It has a "cool" active but it's stats/cost is very lacking when you account for the fact that more than half of its gold value is sunk into AP+Mana.

it's amazing on ez though... 100% slow proc is freaking ridiculous, turns every champ in to ashe.

Guaranteed slow on a 2 second internal cooldown vs. 35% slow on no cooldown that can trigger on any autoattack, not just ones that come after ability usage.

You're an AD carry. You're going to right-click things often enough/fast enough that Iceborn slow doesn't outperform Phage/Triforce slow except in a few edge cases.

On January 06 2013 12:41 Zooper31 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 12:37 TheYango wrote:
Iceborn seems extremely un-compelling to me in comparison to Triforce.

It has a "cool" active but it's stats/cost is very lacking when you account for the fact that more than half of its gold value is sunk into AP+Mana.


On command massive AoE slow is what you're paying for and the ability to forever be able to catch anyone. You also get a nice chunk of mana to spam spells more leisurely, the ap is of course nice on Ez for his spells and you get some nice armor too to make you tankier. You will do less dmg than TF but you will have more utility, be tankier and be able to fight longer.

"Useful" secondary stats are still secondary stats, and should still be valued accordingly.
Moderator
Eppa!
Profile Joined November 2010
Sweden4641 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-06 03:44:08
January 06 2013 03:42 GMT
#6071
I don't like IBG at all still prefer Brut or Phage (pick one)-> BT -> Triforce/PD/BC -> BC/PD

I like IBG as a substitute for GA depending on team.


If you want IBG proc on auto just W them...
"Can't wait till Monday" Cixah+Waveofshadow. "Needs to be monday. Weekend please go by quickly." Gahlo
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
January 06 2013 03:44 GMT
#6072
Iceborn slow is when you want it though, there are definitely times where you need phage proc but never get it in team fight.

controlled slow is pretty good..
liftlift > tsm
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-06 03:50:50
January 06 2013 03:46 GMT
#6073
On January 06 2013 12:44 wei2coolman wrote:
Iceborn slow is when you want it though, there are definitely times where you need phage proc but never get it in team fight.

controlled slow is pretty good..

Ok, sure, it's a slightly better slow.

Is it better by enough to warrant buying 1900 gold worth of secondary stats rather than Phage providing you stats that are immediately and directly useful?
Moderator
Zooper31
Profile Joined May 2009
United States5713 Posts
January 06 2013 03:48 GMT
#6074
On January 06 2013 12:46 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 06 2013 12:44 wei2coolman wrote:
Iceborn slow is when you want it though, there are definitely times where you need phage proc but never get it in team fight.

controlled slow is pretty good..

Ok, sure, it's a slightly better slow.

Is it better by enough to warrant buying 1900 gold worth of secondary stats rather than Phage providing you stats that are immediately and directly useful?


Simply put yes. You're under estimating the slow.
Asato ma sad gamaya, tamaso ma jyotir gamaya, mrtyor mamrtam gamaya
-Zoda-
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
France3578 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-06 03:50:24
January 06 2013 03:48 GMT
#6075
Wickd, Dyrus, Bischu, Shake, everyone I see play Zed on stream just rape people everytime... His ratios gotta be nerfed srsly.

TheYango, with Iceborn Gauntlet you also buy armor, CD, and a bit of AP. It can be useful sometimes... And I agree with Zooper, the slow is very strong when applied from range like with Ez's Q. It can actually be enough to catch people when sieging.
♪ 最初はi つなぐdo それ つまりlife 常に移動 ♪ - IGN: Uhryks
Zooper31
Profile Joined May 2009
United States5713 Posts
January 06 2013 03:50 GMT
#6076
On January 06 2013 12:48 -Zoda- wrote:
Wickd, Dyrus, Bischu, Shake, everyone I see play Zed on stream just rape people everytime... His ratios gotta be nerfed srsly.

TheYango, with Iceborn Gauntlet you also buy armor, CD, and a bit of AP. It can be useful sometimes...


Totally forgot about the CDR too. IBG is way better than TF on Ez atm.
Asato ma sad gamaya, tamaso ma jyotir gamaya, mrtyor mamrtam gamaya
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
January 06 2013 03:51 GMT
#6077
Iceborn spends 3400 gold to get 3500 gold worth of stats, 1900 gold worth of which could be considered secondary, not-so-useful stats (Mana+AP).

Triforce spends 4000 gold to get 5100 gold worth of stats, 1000 of which could be considered secondary, not-so-useful stats (again, Mana+AP).

You're telling me Iceborn's slow is SO MUCH BETTER than Phage that it outweighs the significant cost-effectiveness difference and stat-appropriateness difference?
Moderator
arb
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Noobville17922 Posts
January 06 2013 03:51 GMT
#6078
On January 06 2013 12:51 TheYango wrote:
Iceborn spends 3400 gold to get 3500 gold worth of stats, 1900 gold worth of which could be considered secondary, not-so-useful stats (Mana+AP).

Triforce spends 4000 gold to get 5100 gold worth of stats, 1000 of which could be considered secondary, not-so-useful stats (again, Mana+AP).

You're telling me Iceborn's slow is SO MUCH BETTER than Phage that it outweighs the significant cost-effectiveness difference and stat-appropriateness difference?

it is aoe ya know. so id say yeah in some cases. in others phage is better
Artillery spawned from the forges of Hell
Zooper31
Profile Joined May 2009
United States5713 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-06 03:55:11
January 06 2013 03:52 GMT
#6079
On January 06 2013 12:51 TheYango wrote:
Iceborn spends 3400 gold to get 3500 gold worth of stats, 1900 gold worth of which could be considered secondary, not-so-useful stats (Mana+AP).

Triforce spends 4000 gold to get 5100 gold worth of stats, 1000 of which could be considered secondary, not-so-useful stats (again, Mana+AP).

You're telling me Iceborn's slow is SO MUCH BETTER than Phage that it outweighs the significant cost-effectiveness difference and stat-appropriateness difference?


Yes lol. Also forgetting about the armor and CDR, and as someone pointed out before, the slow is AoE, not single target.

Teamfighting it is better, catching people it is better, fighting another adc/ap 1v1 where neither one of you runs? Could be argued which is better, fighting a melee bruiser? better.

Overall you want IBG unless you are under very specific situations.
Asato ma sad gamaya, tamaso ma jyotir gamaya, mrtyor mamrtam gamaya
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-01-06 03:57:27
January 06 2013 03:53 GMT
#6080
On January 06 2013 12:52 Zooper31 wrote:
Yes lol. Also forgetting about the armor and CDR.

No, those are the 1600 gold on Iceborn that I considered "primary stats", even though it's arguable that buying Armor on an AD carry that early in the game cannot be considered to have primary usefulness, when their baseline defensive stats are so low that HP is the most cost-effective EHP-increaser and not resists.

On January 06 2013 12:52 Zooper31 wrote:
Overall you want IBG unless you are under very specific situations.

The situation of "I want to do damage to things" doesn't seem very specific to me. In fact, it's the primary role of an AD carry in the first place.
Moderator
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