EPT[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 304
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On January 06 2013 11:57 Diamond wrote: How are people building jungle VI? Runes/Masteries/Items. Pretty lost as she feels like she can go all out tank or all out damage. I feel like I do no damage at all if I don't build a phage or bruta very early, and transform it as my 3rd major item at the latest. Her strength is really in autoattacking (dem W procs) but she has a hard time sticking to people (Q's animation and the knock-back can make it awkward to stay in range/follow up, also mobility creep) so during the initiation phase of the teamfight I feel like I do absolutely nothing unless they forget to peel me (most people don't, interestingly, despite full damage Vi being less peeled from what I've seen in my games... she is the bigger threat since she has actual burst and his way easier to kill tho, puzzles me). Maybe I just don't gank enough. Faster runes are AS marks AD quints, if you want to run other quints (MS, defensive, etc.) then run AS marks over AD marks, especially if you start with W (you should, you don't proc your shield on the big camp but you kill stuff faster), it makes you clear with the same time but about 100 HP more. I tried several masteries, 21-9-0 and 0-21-9 mainly, haven't really noticed a difference in damage so I'm pretty frustrated with how to do damage without gimping my defense (I don't want to have burst if it means I won't live to also have dps since Vi's dps > her burst by far). I guess I'll ditch locket for now, I really want a real armor item faster and an early phage covers my HP needs. Also delays my boots for too long. | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On January 06 2013 12:03 Eppa! wrote: You want brutalizer on IBG Ez for slow chaining. The way Chaox does it seems to be like this: Open with long sword and 2pots, then turn that long sword into brutalizer or vamp scepter. Usually he'll have brutalizer and vamp as his first two items. Then if he's rolling his lane he'll go bf sword or sometimes he'll get sheen if he doesn't have enough gold. He only finally buys boots when laning phase is over, and usually he'll finish BT as his first big item, but if teamfights begin rather early then he'll finish iceborn before BT. Regardless of what is bought first, he'll finish the other right after (BT/iceborn). Then LW, then BC. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On January 06 2013 12:21 koreasilver wrote: The way Chaox does it seems to be like this: Open with long sword and 2pots, then turn that long sword into brutalizer or vamp scepter. Usually he'll have brutalizer and vamp as his first two items. Then if he's rolling his lane he'll go bf sword or sometimes he'll get sheen if he doesn't have enough gold. He only finally buys boots when laning phase is over, and usually he'll finish BT as his first big item, but if teamfights begin rather early then he'll finish iceborn before BT. Regardless of what is bought first, he'll finish the other right after (BT/iceborn). Then LW, then BC. The guide on LoLPro from Cop says boots 3 -> dorans/vamp -> bt -> sheen -> IBG -> other ad shit not sure about the dorans, they arent bad but idk about double dorans then vamp | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
It has a "cool" active but it's stats/cost is very lacking when you account for the fact that more than half of its gold value is sunk into AP+Mana. It's 1900 gold worth of AP and mana on a 3400 gold item. The passive doesn't make up for that when both stats are of secondary usefulness to Ezzy. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On January 06 2013 12:37 TheYango wrote: Iceborn seems extremely un-compelling to me in comparison to Triforce. It has a "cool" active but it's stats/cost is very lacking when you account for the fact that more than half of its gold value is sunk into AP+Mana. it's amazing on ez though... 100% slow proc is freaking ridiculous, turns every champ in to ashe. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On January 06 2013 12:37 TheYango wrote: Iceborn seems extremely un-compelling to me in comparison to Triforce. It has a "cool" active but it's stats/cost is very lacking when you account for the fact that more than half of its gold value is sunk into AP+Mana. On command massive AoE slow is what you're paying for and the ability to forever be able to catch anyone. You also get a nice chunk of mana to spam spells more leisurely, the ap is of course nice on Ez for his spells and you get some nice armor too to make you tankier. You will do less dmg than TF but you will have more utility, be tankier and be able to fight longer. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 06 2013 12:39 wei2coolman wrote: it's amazing on ez though... 100% slow proc is freaking ridiculous, turns every champ in to ashe. Guaranteed slow on a 2 second internal cooldown vs. 35% slow on no cooldown that can trigger on any autoattack, not just ones that come after ability usage. You're an AD carry. You're going to right-click things often enough/fast enough that Iceborn slow doesn't outperform Phage/Triforce slow except in a few edge cases. On January 06 2013 12:41 Zooper31 wrote: On command massive AoE slow is what you're paying for and the ability to forever be able to catch anyone. You also get a nice chunk of mana to spam spells more leisurely, the ap is of course nice on Ez for his spells and you get some nice armor too to make you tankier. You will do less dmg than TF but you will have more utility, be tankier and be able to fight longer. "Useful" secondary stats are still secondary stats, and should still be valued accordingly. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
I like IBG as a substitute for GA depending on team. If you want IBG proc on auto just W them... | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
controlled slow is pretty good.. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 06 2013 12:44 wei2coolman wrote: Iceborn slow is when you want it though, there are definitely times where you need phage proc but never get it in team fight. controlled slow is pretty good.. Ok, sure, it's a slightly better slow. Is it better by enough to warrant buying 1900 gold worth of secondary stats rather than Phage providing you stats that are immediately and directly useful? | ||
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On January 06 2013 12:46 TheYango wrote: Ok, sure, it's a slightly better slow. Is it better by enough to warrant buying 1900 gold worth of secondary stats rather than Phage providing you stats that are immediately and directly useful? Simply put yes. You're under estimating the slow. | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
TheYango, with Iceborn Gauntlet you also buy armor, CD, and a bit of AP. It can be useful sometimes... And I agree with Zooper, the slow is very strong when applied from range like with Ez's Q. It can actually be enough to catch people when sieging. | ||
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On January 06 2013 12:48 -Zoda- wrote: Wickd, Dyrus, Bischu, Shake, everyone I see play Zed on stream just rape people everytime... His ratios gotta be nerfed srsly. TheYango, with Iceborn Gauntlet you also buy armor, CD, and a bit of AP. It can be useful sometimes... Totally forgot about the CDR too. IBG is way better than TF on Ez atm. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Triforce spends 4000 gold to get 5100 gold worth of stats, 1000 of which could be considered secondary, not-so-useful stats (again, Mana+AP). You're telling me Iceborn's slow is SO MUCH BETTER than Phage that it outweighs the significant cost-effectiveness difference and stat-appropriateness difference? | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On January 06 2013 12:51 TheYango wrote: Iceborn spends 3400 gold to get 3500 gold worth of stats, 1900 gold worth of which could be considered secondary, not-so-useful stats (Mana+AP). Triforce spends 4000 gold to get 5100 gold worth of stats, 1000 of which could be considered secondary, not-so-useful stats (again, Mana+AP). You're telling me Iceborn's slow is SO MUCH BETTER than Phage that it outweighs the significant cost-effectiveness difference and stat-appropriateness difference? it is aoe ya know. so id say yeah in some cases. in others phage is better | ||
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Zooper31
United States5711 Posts
On January 06 2013 12:51 TheYango wrote: Iceborn spends 3400 gold to get 3500 gold worth of stats, 1900 gold worth of which could be considered secondary, not-so-useful stats (Mana+AP). Triforce spends 4000 gold to get 5100 gold worth of stats, 1000 of which could be considered secondary, not-so-useful stats (again, Mana+AP). You're telling me Iceborn's slow is SO MUCH BETTER than Phage that it outweighs the significant cost-effectiveness difference and stat-appropriateness difference? Yes lol. Also forgetting about the armor and CDR, and as someone pointed out before, the slow is AoE, not single target. Teamfighting it is better, catching people it is better, fighting another adc/ap 1v1 where neither one of you runs? Could be argued which is better, fighting a melee bruiser? better. Overall you want IBG unless you are under very specific situations. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On January 06 2013 12:52 Zooper31 wrote: Yes lol. Also forgetting about the armor and CDR. No, those are the 1600 gold on Iceborn that I considered "primary stats", even though it's arguable that buying Armor on an AD carry that early in the game cannot be considered to have primary usefulness, when their baseline defensive stats are so low that HP is the most cost-effective EHP-increaser and not resists. On January 06 2013 12:52 Zooper31 wrote: Overall you want IBG unless you are under very specific situations. The situation of "I want to do damage to things" doesn't seem very specific to me. In fact, it's the primary role of an AD carry in the first place. | ||
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