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On January 06 2013 13:10 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 13:09 Zooper31 wrote:On January 06 2013 13:08 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, with the numbers I gave you, what you're essentially saying is that if there was an item that cost 2000 gold, and gave 0 stats but gave you the Iceborn slow, you'd buy that item. Because that's honestly what the Iceborn vs. Triforce comparison essentially comes down to. Don't know what else to say man, sometimes not everything can be calculated with gold with how useful it is. On the contrary, gold value does an extremely good job of estimating the value of things in virtually all cases. I recall someone saying the same thing to me in S2 when I was arguing that Aegis was a must-buy in virtually all scenarios.
I just don't understand how you can "value" an aoe slow that you can proc from 1k range on a 3 second cd.
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God, I just got done hating on the BT/TF/LW build. Now I need a whole nother rant about BT/IBG build. What do you even go for next? PD? LW? Shiv?
Edit.
The point is: Have someone else build it. Or run a double AD Carry setup. Because the enemy Olaf or Singed will just /taunt for 8 hours.
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Yea I think Yango is undervaluing the fact that it's AOE and on-call. Sure AD carries are supposed to autoattack but every other auto, an ezreal will use Q.
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On January 06 2013 13:08 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, with the numbers I gave you, what you're essentially saying is that if there was an item that cost 2000 gold, and gave 0 stats but gave you the Iceborn slow, you'd buy that item. Because that's honestly what the Iceborn vs. Triforce comparison essentially comes down to. That's how big the numerical disparity between Iceborn and Triforce is.
Shard of true ice is 1700 gold... and supports don't really need the AP behidn it... So yeah, its worth around 2000 gold, considering its "flingable" aoe slow.
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Don't forget that the IBG Spellblade does AOE damage as well in addition to the slow. Not a huge amount but it definitely adds up when you use it as much as Ezreal does with Q.
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Eh so ... It's inferior to Volley, right?
So ashe with IE vs Ezreal with IBG who is more useful in TFs?
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United States37500 Posts
I'd never get Phage or Trinity on Ez this patch when Gauntlet is an option. @_@
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On January 06 2013 13:33 Shikyo wrote:
Eh so ... It's inferior to Volley, right?
So ashe with IE vs Ezreal with IBG who is more useful in TFs?
different champ, different uses >.>
if they have xin, talon, or any gap clsoers. EZ >> ashe, with ibg.
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I don't know why people are saying to just pick Ashe instead of going IBG. So you're trading a larger AOE and an on-hit slow with w/e damage item you want for a semi-on-hit poke AOE slow with tankiness and a flash. I value Ez's E over anything Ashe has to offer and there's a reason she's not picked very often in competitive play.
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If the enemy team is all physical damage, what's the best defensive item to build on an adc?
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United States47024 Posts
On January 06 2013 13:25 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 13:08 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, with the numbers I gave you, what you're essentially saying is that if there was an item that cost 2000 gold, and gave 0 stats but gave you the Iceborn slow, you'd buy that item. Because that's honestly what the Iceborn vs. Triforce comparison essentially comes down to. That's how big the numerical disparity between Iceborn and Triforce is. Shard of true ice is 1700 gold... and supports don't really need the AP behidn it... So yeah, its worth around 2000 gold, considering its "flingable" aoe slow.
It's 1700 gold total, has a mana regen aura, provides gp10, and AP is a secondary stat for supports. I accounted for AP/mana being roughly half-value stats for Ezreal in that 2000 gold number, so you'd have to do the same when valuing Shard. I didn't treat AP/mana as 0-value stats.
So that puts Shard active as costing less than 1000 gold, lol. A LOT less, depending how much you value the aura (if you just consider the Mana Manipulator as equalling the aura value, then all told Shard active is "worth" ~550 gold).
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On January 06 2013 13:42 olabaz wrote:
If the enemy team is all physical damage, what's the best defensive item to build on an adc?
GA
Also what are you supposed to get after DFG on jungle eve?
I went machete spirit stone guise DFG
was at a loss after that.
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Like, I'll agree that the iceborn build doesn't look good on paper at all on Ezreal, and I was really skeptical about it when Chaox first started using it, mostly because the build completely forgoes crit damage, and I thought that giving up crit damage on an AD carry was just too much. But after playing around with it on Ezreal for the past week and a half, I've been converted. It's undeniable that you do less damage with it, but the sheer utility that it provides is really ludicrous, and it's very difficult for you to die with the build. Just with brut/BC and iceborn you have 29cdr, so your Q cooldown is something like 2.84. If you land your Q, it becomes 1.84. So at this point you're basically shooting out a 1100 range sheen empowered Q that blows up into an aoe slow constantly. Because of the cdr you're getting you don't even need to build AS because you're going to have max stacks on your passive and you're shooting out Qs constantly. And even though you don't have crit, with LW you still do a lot of damage, and once you finish BC your damage output will be quite high. It's enough that I haven't actually missed the crit damage.
With aoe slows on your Qs, your E, your team peeling, and flash, you become incredibly hard to engage on, and just by this factor alone I've won a lot of games with the build. Like I'm just a shitty 1500 level player but I've had good experiences with it although I was skeptical about it at first. I don't know if it'll still be good after the iceborn nerf on ranged champions, but in its current state I can't imagine using any other build on Ezreal.
edit: http://www.finalesfunkeln.com/s3/#GaUMSlqTvMaIPvY
this is the mastery page that I saw Chaox last use on Ezreal when he was planning on using the iceborn build. I looked at Cop's thing that someone posted a little bit back, but I like Chaox's longsword opening that delays boots until laning ends. R>Q>E>W, skipping W until you can't anymore.
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On January 06 2013 13:47 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 13:42 olabaz wrote:
If the enemy team is all physical damage, what's the best defensive item to build on an adc? GA Also what are you supposed to get after DFG on jungle eve? I went machete spirit stone guise DFG was at a loss after that.
Machete 5 pots. don't upgrade machete its a dead end.
Kages
boots->sorc.
then DFG.
I follow up with Rylais or Liandries depending on enemy team comp, if your team has no initiates go rylais, since you'll be taking brunt force of dmg. If your team already has a malphite or something like that, go liandries.
then follow up with abyssal or rylais.
I finish up with either warmogs or zhonya's.
If you're really fed, get Death Cap.
On January 06 2013 13:43 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 13:25 wei2coolman wrote:On January 06 2013 13:08 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, with the numbers I gave you, what you're essentially saying is that if there was an item that cost 2000 gold, and gave 0 stats but gave you the Iceborn slow, you'd buy that item. Because that's honestly what the Iceborn vs. Triforce comparison essentially comes down to. That's how big the numerical disparity between Iceborn and Triforce is. Shard of true ice is 1700 gold... and supports don't really need the AP behidn it... So yeah, its worth around 2000 gold, considering its "flingable" aoe slow. It's 1700 gold total, has a mana regen aura, provides gp10, and AP is a secondary stat for supports. I accounted for AP/mana being roughly half-value stats for Ezreal in that 2000 gold number, so you'd have to do the same when valuing Shard. I didn't treat AP/mana as 0-value stats. So that puts Shard active as costing less than 1000 gold, lol. A LOT less, depending how much you value the aura (if you just consider the Mana Manipulator as equalling the aura value, then all told Shard active is "worth" ~550 gold).
The aura is trash. Same reason soul shroud was trash. maybe worth 10 gold at most.
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On January 06 2013 13:47 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 13:42 olabaz wrote:
If the enemy team is all physical damage, what's the best defensive item to build on an adc? GA Also what are you supposed to get after DFG on jungle eve? I went machete spirit stone guise DFG was at a loss after that.
Depending on the team comp, hourglass or abyssal. Dcap if you're ahead, imo.
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IBG procs on Ezreal Q
So you pay 2000g for a 1k range autoattack that keeps them slowed and far enough away to chain up with further 1k range AAs
Trinity is more cost efficient for straight up dueling but IBG allows you to play so far in the back line for half the teamfight that you don't need to duel anyone that isn't almost dead.
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On January 06 2013 13:58 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 13:47 arb wrote:On January 06 2013 13:42 olabaz wrote:
If the enemy team is all physical damage, what's the best defensive item to build on an adc? GA Also what are you supposed to get after DFG on jungle eve? I went machete spirit stone guise DFG was at a loss after that. Machete 5 pots. don't upgrade machete its a dead end. Kages boots->sorc. then DFG. I follow up with Rylais or Liandries depending on enemy team comp, if your team has no initiates go rylais, since you'll be taking brunt force of dmg. If your team already has a malphite or something like that, go liandries. then follow up with abyssal or rylais. I finish up with either warmogs or zhonya's. If you're really fed, get Death Cap. Show nested quote +On January 06 2013 13:43 TheYango wrote:On January 06 2013 13:25 wei2coolman wrote:On January 06 2013 13:08 TheYango wrote:
Honestly, with the numbers I gave you, what you're essentially saying is that if there was an item that cost 2000 gold, and gave 0 stats but gave you the Iceborn slow, you'd buy that item. Because that's honestly what the Iceborn vs. Triforce comparison essentially comes down to. That's how big the numerical disparity between Iceborn and Triforce is. Shard of true ice is 1700 gold... and supports don't really need the AP behidn it... So yeah, its worth around 2000 gold, considering its "flingable" aoe slow. It's 1700 gold total, has a mana regen aura, provides gp10, and AP is a secondary stat for supports. I accounted for AP/mana being roughly half-value stats for Ezreal in that 2000 gold number, so you'd have to do the same when valuing Shard. I didn't treat AP/mana as 0-value stats. So that puts Shard active as costing less than 1000 gold, lol. A LOT less, depending how much you value the aura (if you just consider the Mana Manipulator as equalling the aura value, then all told Shard active is "worth" ~550 gold). The aura is trash. Same reason soul shroud was trash. maybe worth 10 gold at most.
For some reason i didnt figure you should upgrade Machete but i wasnt really sure what else to get. I mostly just winged it, good to have a solid build though!
What skill order ? QEQWQR R>Q>E>W?
doesnt seem like E does a whole lot till its maxed tho
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If their AD Annie is dealing more damage than you i think that is a problem. It's great for poking thats it; it sucks in fights and in lane until you finish it.
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Yeah, thats the right skill order. (also sometimes I get a flask between the boots and dfg, but depends on how games going)
I see where Yango is going with the whole numbers thing though. I figured if you're playing hyper carry, ibg not a good buy. But EZ isn't really a hyper carry, he's more a mid-game I outplayed your entire team because "I have the most op'd fucking escape in the game + now I have aoe slow, try and stop me from kiting your entire team like complete scrubs". And in that case, IBG is a good buy.
If Doublelift was playing Ez, I'd advise against IBG, just because he's so good at kiting, and CLG is great at peeling for DL, that he doesn't need it. But not every ADC is at his caliber, nor is there always a teamcomp that peels for you that ideally.
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On January 06 2013 14:01 Eppa! wrote:
If their AD Annie is dealing more damage than you i think that is a problem. It's great for poking thats it; it sucks in fights and in lane until you finish it.
You gotta be trolling with that comparison lol.
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EPT
