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On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 11:03 NeoIllusions wrote:On December 14 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is.
Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload. i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency. But right now we have all three. I don't see the problem. this discussion has no point if you think this. i'm tired. On December 14 2012 10:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Having a Tribunal doesn't make things any less accurate or less accountable. I don't get what your gripe about the system is. It efficiently and effectively removes toxic players from the pool more so than any other game developers' tool out there.
sign up for a new account. play 10 games. come back and post the same thing. Pretty sure Riot doesn't attempt (much) to control anything under level 30. Because like you said, anyone can just sign up for a new account. There's no much invested in a sub level 10 account. But that's not here or there, that has no standing for or against the Tribunal. playing a low level account is the equivilent of playing with 7 PBU's and 1 new players friend and 2 new players. that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.
Huh,how so?When you get into low priority you can just make a smurf easier than in LoL and play again.
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United States37500 Posts
On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 11:03 NeoIllusions wrote:On December 14 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is.
Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload. i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency. But right now we have all three. I don't see the problem. this discussion has no point if you think this. i'm tired. On December 14 2012 10:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Having a Tribunal doesn't make things any less accurate or less accountable. I don't get what your gripe about the system is. It efficiently and effectively removes toxic players from the pool more so than any other game developers' tool out there.
sign up for a new account. play 10 games. come back and post the same thing. Pretty sure Riot doesn't attempt (much) to control anything under level 30. Because like you said, anyone can just sign up for a new account. There's no much invested in a sub level 10 account. But that's not here or there, that has no standing for or against the Tribunal. playing a low level account is the equivilent of playing with 7 PBU's and 1 new players friend and 2 new players. that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.
Ahh, yes. the PX hyperbole. I've played a level 10-15 account in the past few months and it wasn't really that bad. From a community standpoint, sure, I can see you trying to white knight the cause. But if you're level 30, why does it matter? I mean really.
And toxic players do get removed and get perm'd. IP bans are almost never an answer because the PBU can usually change IPs without a problem.
Your exaggeration is just horrendous for discussion and your points are terrible. Bad, toxic players do get removed from the community via Tribunal. How are you arguing this? Does it stop persistent trolls from signing up a new account, of course not. But if they continue to troll, they'll get banned in due time as well. Welcome to the interwebs.
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On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
playing a low level account is the equivilent of playing with 7 PBU's and 1 new players friend and 2 new players.
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.
Again, no system is going to properly filter results from like 15 games. Either that or you put the tolerable degree of toxicity super low and probably ban a significant amount of innocent (and probably new) players.
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On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.
Really? How do they do this?
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On December 14 2012 11:04 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:On December 14 2012 09:56 Seuss wrote:
We've been there. Odd as it may seem hiring someone to spend 8+ hours a day wading through filth is actually slower, less efficient.
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is. Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload. i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency. But right now we have all three. I don't see the problem. this discussion has no point if you think this. i'm tired. On December 14 2012 10:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Having a Tribunal doesn't make things any less accurate or less accountable. I don't get what your gripe about the system is. It efficiently and effectively removes toxic players from the pool more so than any other game developers' tool out there.
sign up for a new account. play 10 games. come back and post the same thing. Unfortunately I agree on one of the points that PX makes, although doubtful for the reasons he would try to argue. There is very little accountability (though arguably high accuracy and high efficiency) to the Tribunal due to the sheer volume of players that play the game and that pass through. Riot has obviously stepped it up thanks to their report card system, however most of the report cards don't seem to do a whole lot when they only give you an unrepresentative snapshot of 3-4 of your 50 reportable games. The fact that you (most of the time) can't appeal this process means essentially that Riot has given up most of their accountability to the system, barring some exceptions, and there will be cases again due to sheer volume that slip through the cracks. Obviously when you're trying to police a game with 30 mill subscribers that's going to be inevitable, but that doesn't mean there isn't room to improve.
But you're actually arguing a completely different point. PrinceXizor isn't looking to improve the system, he thinks it's completely pointless, unsalvageable, and worthless. He wants it gone. Second, he's arguing there's no accountability at all, whereas you're arguing that there's simply an insufficient amount due to sheer volume. You're really on completely different pages (and this is a good thing).
The system should be improved, not because it's bad (it isn't) but because it could be better. There's an irrational animosity toward the Tribunal in the community which borders on faked moon landing levels of wonkery, and that gets in the way of getting us closer to better accountability more than any boogeymen at Riot.
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On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.
Really? How do they do this?
you still get to play if you get punished, you just play with all the other kids in time out.
Putting more and more PBUs at low levels will end LoL. it will be the death of the game, and as long as the tribunal exists it gives riot a reason to chuckle and sip their scotch and say "look at all the good we did, and we didn't even have to work" without actually fixing a problem, riot has proven they don't fix problems on their own, unless it's a problem they imagined that no one else sees.
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On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:On December 14 2012 09:56 Seuss wrote:
We've been there. Odd as it may seem hiring someone to spend 8+ hours a day wading through filth is actually slower, less efficient.
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is. Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. the way the system is set up now, riot controls everything, but can deny responsibility and hide behind the community for any mistakes, as well as not having to pay as many people. it's scummy and i don't like it.
Because the Tribunal:
1) Weeds out pardons. A Riot employee does not need to review a case that is pardoned, this weeds out most likely a large portion of unwarranted reports. The tribunal (at least based on the cases that I have looked at) have been pretty good about pardoning those that deserve it.
Even if this weeds out 5% to 10% of cases, that could be thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of cases that a riot employee no longer needs to spend time looking at.
2) Weeds out 1st timers. The tribunal will punish a first timer with a warning / 2 day ban. This is automated and can week out a large number of cases that saves Riot employees time.
Again, assuming that 5% to 10% of cases are first timers (very low estimate), then we can again weed out a huge number of cases that a Riot employee doesn't need to spend time on.
- - - - - - -
Now simply through auto mating pardons and first timers, you can save 10% to 20% of cases from being seen by Riot. This means that 10% to 20% less people need to be hired to cover the work load of reviewing cases.
This not only allows for a significantly larger number of cases to be reviewed in a shorter amount of time, it will most easily flag:
1) Toxic Players: If they have been warned once, their second coming to the tribunal will be dealt with in a much harsher manner. Having this flag ASAP is important as I can mean that hundreds of games can be spared the wrath of a single toxic player because he was flagged as Toxic a few weeks earlier then if a Riot employee was looking at every case.
2) People who falsely report A LOT. By having the tribunal take care of Pardon cases, you can see trends in people who report too much and can lower the value of their reports. This will result in fewer cases making the tribunal (and the desks of Riot employees) as these people who report for no reason will no longer matter in the grand Scheme of things.
- - - - - - - -
Overall, these small reductions in cases being reviewed by Riot add up to a lot (say 15% to 25% could be higher, even 50% or 60%).
This allows Riot to:
1) Save money on the team that looks at cases, allowing them to spend more money on fun stuff like new champions, reworks, and new maps.
2) Speed up the time that Toxic players are banned, flags will come earlier, and since only repeat offenders are seen by Riot there is a higher chance that they deserve the punishment. Means less Toxic players overall
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Now the most important reason to have the Tribunal is to make punishment visible.
Anonymity on the internet has shown that people are assholes when there are no consequences. Prior to the tribunal, people did not see bans, could not see people being punished, and as such did not think it happened. People could rage as much as they wanted and no one would care.
After the tribunal, people are constantly reminded that someone is reviewing their actions in game. This is especially evident by these "I was wrongfully banned" appeals threads. It makes people read what Riot has to say, and makes it apparent that Riot KNOWS what YOU are doing. They watch your games, they read your pre-game chat, and if you are toxic you will be banned.
While this won't deter people who don't know that they are toxic, it will help to prevent those that have a sense of right and wrong from raging / feeding / afking / being toxic. This is exactly how our current justice system works. If people think they can get away with a crime they will (see downloading music / tv shows / video games), but if they think they will caught a significantly smaller portion of people will offend (see stealing physical items).
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TL:DR
The Tribunal:
1) Saves riot from having to review pardon and first timer posts allowing for them to focus on suspected toxic players
2) Flags toxic players earlier to allow for a quicker ban for horrible behaviour
3) It makes justice visible to deter those that are in the moral grey area, were only raging because they didn't think riot would ban them.
This creates a better environment for Riot and a better environment for us.
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On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.
Really? How do they do this?
They stick you into low priority que where you play with other low priority players.Takes longer to get games,you don't get xp and the quality of games is just worse overall.Imo from my experience it doesn't solve anything because you can just make a smurf and stomp low mmr people and withing like 10-20 games your back in the same range of what you were.
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United States37500 Posts
On December 14 2012 11:13 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.
Really? How do they do this? you still get to play if you get punished, you just play with all the other kids in time out.
What? lol
What's to stop them from doing what your saying in your example? Start a new Dota2 account and troll some newbs again.
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^Pretty much nothing that's what everyone does.
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United States37500 Posts
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On December 14 2012 11:15 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 11:13 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.
Really? How do they do this? you still get to play if you get punished, you just play with all the other kids in time out. What? lol What's to stop them from doing what your saying in your example? Start a new Dota2 account and troll some newbs again.
there is far less incentive to do so. instead of being told "you can't play, unless you make a new account" you are just put in a different queue. you greatly exaggerate a troll's work ethic if you think he's gonna go through a whole process to do one thing when he can just keep on doing it.
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On December 14 2012 11:17 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 11:15 NeoIllusions wrote:On December 14 2012 11:13 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.
Really? How do they do this? you still get to play if you get punished, you just play with all the other kids in time out. What? lol What's to stop them from doing what your saying in your example? Start a new Dota2 account and troll some newbs again. there is far less incentive to do so. instead of being told "you can't play, unless you make a new account" you are just put in a different queue.
A typically longer queue, where you can't earn rating or items and are sure to encounter the scum of the earth. Not to mention new accounts have full access to all heroes.
Less incentive wut.
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Also if you are that much into items(which a lot of people are) you can just trade all the items you get from your smurf to your main account when the low priority status is over.
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On December 14 2012 11:19 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 11:17 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 11:15 NeoIllusions wrote:On December 14 2012 11:13 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.
Really? How do they do this? you still get to play if you get punished, you just play with all the other kids in time out. What? lol What's to stop them from doing what your saying in your example? Start a new Dota2 account and troll some newbs again. there is far less incentive to do so. instead of being told "you can't play, unless you make a new account" you are just put in a different queue. A typically longer queue, where you can't earn rating or items and are sure to encounter the scum of the earth. Not to mention new accounts have full access to all heroes. Less incentive wut.
thats why people stop playing and make new accounts when they hit high elo in lol right? the longer queues? the MMR system is hidden anyone you don't know you aren't getting any rating nor could you check your rating anyway, most of the items you get are chests anyway.
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On December 14 2012 11:12 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 11:04 WaveofShadow wrote:On December 14 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is.
Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload. i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency. But right now we have all three. I don't see the problem. this discussion has no point if you think this. i'm tired. On December 14 2012 10:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Having a Tribunal doesn't make things any less accurate or less accountable. I don't get what your gripe about the system is. It efficiently and effectively removes toxic players from the pool more so than any other game developers' tool out there.
sign up for a new account. play 10 games. come back and post the same thing. Unfortunately I agree on one of the points that PX makes, although doubtful for the reasons he would try to argue. There is very little accountability (though arguably high accuracy and high efficiency) to the Tribunal due to the sheer volume of players that play the game and that pass through. Riot has obviously stepped it up thanks to their report card system, however most of the report cards don't seem to do a whole lot when they only give you an unrepresentative snapshot of 3-4 of your 50 reportable games. The fact that you (most of the time) can't appeal this process means essentially that Riot has given up most of their accountability to the system, barring some exceptions, and there will be cases again due to sheer volume that slip through the cracks. Obviously when you're trying to police a game with 30 mill subscribers that's going to be inevitable, but that doesn't mean there isn't room to improve. But you're actually arguing a completely different point. PrinceXizor isn't looking to improve the system, he thinks it's completely pointless, unsalvageable, and worthless. He wants it gone. Second, he's arguing there's no accountability at all, whereas you're arguing that there's simply an insufficient amount due to sheer volume. You're really on completely different pages (and this is a good thing). The system should be improved, not because it's bad (it isn't) but because it could be better. There's an irrational animosity toward the Tribunal in the community which borders on faked moon landing levels of wonkery, and that gets in the way of getting us closer to better accountability more than any boogeymen at Riot.
When the tribunal gave ip, I just checked to see if the player had any [all] chat, and if it did, I'd punish
I got like 90% of the cases correct lol
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On December 14 2012 11:17 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 11:15 NeoIllusions wrote:On December 14 2012 11:13 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.
Really? How do they do this? you still get to play if you get punished, you just play with all the other kids in time out. What? lol What's to stop them from doing what your saying in your example? Start a new Dota2 account and troll some newbs again. there is far less incentive to do so. instead of being told "you can't play, unless you make a new account" you are just put in a different queue. you greatly exaggerate a troll's work ethic if you think he's gonna go through a whole process to do one thing when he can just keep on doing it.
I don't think so, honestly.
I was placed in the leaver queue ONCE because we grouped with a friend who trolled/afked/whatever and it was absolutely awful. I rarely have LoL games as bad as this DotA one was in terms of trolling/leavers.
If PBUs or DotA's equivalent had to deal with that, there is no question at all in my mind that they'd just make new accounts. I never want to be in that queue again after even ONE game.
(I guess on that note, maybe it's a bigger deterrent? Nah, even then probably not. I'd be much more devastated if I lost my LoL account where I've earned 90% of all champs and runes and such.)
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rofl, this TSM, so stronk
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On December 14 2012 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 11:17 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 11:15 NeoIllusions wrote:On December 14 2012 11:13 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.
Really? How do they do this? you still get to play if you get punished, you just play with all the other kids in time out. What? lol What's to stop them from doing what your saying in your example? Start a new Dota2 account and troll some newbs again. there is far less incentive to do so. instead of being told "you can't play, unless you make a new account" you are just put in a different queue. you greatly exaggerate a troll's work ethic if you think he's gonna go through a whole process to do one thing when he can just keep on doing it. I don't think so, honestly. I was placed in the leaver queue ONCE because we grouped with a friend who trolled/afked/whatever and it was absolutely awful. I rarely have LoL games as bad as this DotA one was in terms of trolling/leavers. If PBUs or DotA's equivalent had to deal with that, there is no question at all in my mind that they'd just make new accounts. I never want to be in that queue again after even ONE game. (I guess on that note, maybe it's a bigger deterrent? Nah, even then probably not. I'd be much more devastated if I lost my LoL account where I've earned 90% of all champs and runes and such.)
making a new account in LoL IS putting yourself in a queue with mostly PBUs. except you also get to ruin new players days as well. oh and the best part is a new lol account is tribunal immune.
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EPT
