• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 08:40
CEST 14:40
KST 21:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters10[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon65Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism10Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?169Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft open world shooter announced at BlizzCon How do you feel about the StarCraft shooter announcement at BlizzCon 2026? Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16) Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22 KSL Week #92 IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly 2026 GSTL Announcement
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon? ASL22 General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Broodwar Prediction Market Practice Partners (Official)
Tourneys
[ASL22] Ro16 Group B [ASL22] Ro16 Group A Escore Tournament - Season 3 Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Diablo IV EVE Corporation [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread UK Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Diablo Animated Series on Netflix
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5839 users

[Patch 1.0.0.153: Preseason Balance Update 1] GD - Page 3

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 449 450 451 Next
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
December 14 2012 02:11 GMT
#41
On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 11:03 NeoIllusions wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:
From the old thread:

On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is.

Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with.

having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty.


There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them.

Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1).

so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed.


Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload.

i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency.


But right now we have all three. I don't see the problem.

this discussion has no point if you think this. i'm tired.

On December 14 2012 10:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Having a Tribunal doesn't make things any less accurate or less accountable. I don't get what your gripe about the system is. It efficiently and effectively removes toxic players from the pool more so than any other game developers' tool out there.


sign up for a new account. play 10 games. come back and post the same thing.


Pretty sure Riot doesn't attempt (much) to control anything under level 30. Because like you said, anyone can just sign up for a new account. There's no much invested in a sub level 10 account.

But that's not here or there, that has no standing for or against the Tribunal.

playing a low level account is the equivilent of playing with 7 PBU's and 1 new players friend and 2 new players.

that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.

Huh,how so?When you get into low priority you can just make a smurf easier than in LoL and play again.
Cackle™
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
December 14 2012 02:12 GMT
#42
On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 11:03 NeoIllusions wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:
From the old thread:

On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is.

Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with.

having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty.


There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them.

Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1).

so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed.


Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload.

i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency.


But right now we have all three. I don't see the problem.

this discussion has no point if you think this. i'm tired.

On December 14 2012 10:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Having a Tribunal doesn't make things any less accurate or less accountable. I don't get what your gripe about the system is. It efficiently and effectively removes toxic players from the pool more so than any other game developers' tool out there.


sign up for a new account. play 10 games. come back and post the same thing.


Pretty sure Riot doesn't attempt (much) to control anything under level 30. Because like you said, anyone can just sign up for a new account. There's no much invested in a sub level 10 account.

But that's not here or there, that has no standing for or against the Tribunal.

playing a low level account is the equivilent of playing with 7 PBU's and 1 new players friend and 2 new players.

that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.


Ahh, yes. the PX hyperbole. I've played a level 10-15 account in the past few months and it wasn't really that bad. From a community standpoint, sure, I can see you trying to white knight the cause. But if you're level 30, why does it matter? I mean really.

And toxic players do get removed and get perm'd. IP bans are almost never an answer because the PBU can usually change IPs without a problem.

Your exaggeration is just horrendous for discussion and your points are terrible. Bad, toxic players do get removed from the community via Tribunal. How are you arguing this? Does it stop persistent trolls from signing up a new account, of course not. But if they continue to troll, they'll get banned in due time as well. Welcome to the interwebs.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
ManyCookies
Profile Joined December 2010
1164 Posts
December 14 2012 02:12 GMT
#43
On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:

playing a low level account is the equivilent of playing with 7 PBU's and 1 new players friend and 2 new players.

that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.


Again, no system is going to properly filter results from like 15 games. Either that or you put the tolerable degree of toxicity super low and probably ban a significant amount of innocent (and probably new) players.
Pooshlmer
Profile Joined August 2008
United States1001 Posts
December 14 2012 02:12 GMT
#44
On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.


Really? How do they do this?
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
December 14 2012 02:12 GMT
#45
On December 14 2012 11:04 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:
From the old thread:

On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:
On December 14 2012 09:56 Seuss wrote:
We've been there. Odd as it may seem hiring someone to spend 8+ hours a day wading through filth is actually slower, less efficient.

Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is.

Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with.

having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty.


There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them.

Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1).

so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed.


Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload.

i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency.


But right now we have all three. I don't see the problem.

this discussion has no point if you think this. i'm tired.

On December 14 2012 10:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Having a Tribunal doesn't make things any less accurate or less accountable. I don't get what your gripe about the system is. It efficiently and effectively removes toxic players from the pool more so than any other game developers' tool out there.


sign up for a new account. play 10 games. come back and post the same thing.

Unfortunately I agree on one of the points that PX makes, although doubtful for the reasons he would try to argue.
There is very little accountability (though arguably high accuracy and high efficiency) to the Tribunal due to the sheer volume of players that play the game and that pass through.

Riot has obviously stepped it up thanks to their report card system, however most of the report cards don't seem to do a whole lot when they only give you an unrepresentative snapshot of 3-4 of your 50 reportable games. The fact that you (most of the time) can't appeal this process means essentially that Riot has given up most of their accountability to the system, barring some exceptions, and there will be cases again due to sheer volume that slip through the cracks.

Obviously when you're trying to police a game with 30 mill subscribers that's going to be inevitable, but that doesn't mean there isn't room to improve.


But you're actually arguing a completely different point. PrinceXizor isn't looking to improve the system, he thinks it's completely pointless, unsalvageable, and worthless. He wants it gone. Second, he's arguing there's no accountability at all, whereas you're arguing that there's simply an insufficient amount due to sheer volume. You're really on completely different pages (and this is a good thing).

The system should be improved, not because it's bad (it isn't) but because it could be better. There's an irrational animosity toward the Tribunal in the community which borders on faked moon landing levels of wonkery, and that gets in the way of getting us closer to better accountability more than any boogeymen at Riot.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-14 02:15:33
December 14 2012 02:13 GMT
#46
On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.


Really? How do they do this?

you still get to play if you get punished, you just play with all the other kids in time out.

Putting more and more PBUs at low levels will end LoL. it will be the death of the game, and as long as the tribunal exists it gives riot a reason to chuckle and sip their scotch and say "look at all the good we did, and we didn't even have to work" without actually fixing a problem, riot has proven they don't fix problems on their own, unless it's a problem they imagined that no one else sees.
Insanious
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada1251 Posts
December 14 2012 02:13 GMT
#47
On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:
From the old thread:

On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:
On December 14 2012 09:56 Seuss wrote:
We've been there. Odd as it may seem hiring someone to spend 8+ hours a day wading through filth is actually slower, less efficient.

Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is.

Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with.

having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty.


There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them.

Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1).

so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. the way the system is set up now, riot controls everything, but can deny responsibility and hide behind the community for any mistakes, as well as not having to pay as many people. it's scummy and i don't like it.


Because the Tribunal:

1) Weeds out pardons. A Riot employee does not need to review a case that is pardoned, this weeds out most likely a large portion of unwarranted reports. The tribunal (at least based on the cases that I have looked at) have been pretty good about pardoning those that deserve it.

Even if this weeds out 5% to 10% of cases, that could be thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of cases that a riot employee no longer needs to spend time looking at.

2) Weeds out 1st timers. The tribunal will punish a first timer with a warning / 2 day ban. This is automated and can week out a large number of cases that saves Riot employees time.

Again, assuming that 5% to 10% of cases are first timers (very low estimate), then we can again weed out a huge number of cases that a Riot employee doesn't need to spend time on.

- - - - - - -

Now simply through auto mating pardons and first timers, you can save 10% to 20% of cases from being seen by Riot. This means that 10% to 20% less people need to be hired to cover the work load of reviewing cases.

This not only allows for a significantly larger number of cases to be reviewed in a shorter amount of time, it will most easily flag:

1) Toxic Players: If they have been warned once, their second coming to the tribunal will be dealt with in a much harsher manner. Having this flag ASAP is important as I can mean that hundreds of games can be spared the wrath of a single toxic player because he was flagged as Toxic a few weeks earlier then if a Riot employee was looking at every case.

2) People who falsely report A LOT. By having the tribunal take care of Pardon cases, you can see trends in people who report too much and can lower the value of their reports. This will result in fewer cases making the tribunal (and the desks of Riot employees) as these people who report for no reason will no longer matter in the grand Scheme of things.

- - - - - - - -

Overall, these small reductions in cases being reviewed by Riot add up to a lot (say 15% to 25% could be higher, even 50% or 60%).

This allows Riot to:

1) Save money on the team that looks at cases, allowing them to spend more money on fun stuff like new champions, reworks, and new maps.

2) Speed up the time that Toxic players are banned, flags will come earlier, and since only repeat offenders are seen by Riot there is a higher chance that they deserve the punishment. Means less Toxic players overall

- - - - - - -

Now the most important reason to have the Tribunal is to make punishment visible.

Anonymity on the internet has shown that people are assholes when there are no consequences. Prior to the tribunal, people did not see bans, could not see people being punished, and as such did not think it happened. People could rage as much as they wanted and no one would care.

After the tribunal, people are constantly reminded that someone is reviewing their actions in game. This is especially evident by these "I was wrongfully banned" appeals threads. It makes people read what Riot has to say, and makes it apparent that Riot KNOWS what YOU are doing. They watch your games, they read your pre-game chat, and if you are toxic you will be banned.

While this won't deter people who don't know that they are toxic, it will help to prevent those that have a sense of right and wrong from raging / feeding / afking / being toxic. This is exactly how our current justice system works. If people think they can get away with a crime they will (see downloading music / tv shows / video games), but if they think they will caught a significantly smaller portion of people will offend (see stealing physical items).

- - - - - - - -

TL:DR

The Tribunal:

1) Saves riot from having to review pardon and first timer posts allowing for them to focus on suspected toxic players

2) Flags toxic players earlier to allow for a quicker ban for horrible behaviour

3) It makes justice visible to deter those that are in the moral grey area, were only raging because they didn't think riot would ban them.

This creates a better environment for Riot and a better environment for us.
If you want to help me out... http://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4b82744b816d3
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
December 14 2012 02:14 GMT
#48
LOL this bot lane...
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
December 14 2012 02:15 GMT
#49
On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.


Really? How do they do this?

They stick you into low priority que where you play with other low priority players.Takes longer to get games,you don't get xp and the quality of games is just worse overall.Imo from my experience it doesn't solve anything because you can just make a smurf and stomp low mmr people and withing like 10-20 games your back in the same range of what you were.
Cackle™
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
December 14 2012 02:15 GMT
#50
On December 14 2012 11:13 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.


Really? How do they do this?

you still get to play if you get punished, you just play with all the other kids in time out.


What? lol
What's to stop them from doing what your saying in your example? Start a new Dota2 account and troll some newbs again.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
December 14 2012 02:16 GMT
#51
^Pretty much nothing that's what everyone does.
Cackle™
NeoIllusions
Profile Blog Joined December 2002
United States37500 Posts
December 14 2012 02:16 GMT
#52
Insanious is a champ.
ModeratorFor the Glory that is TeamLiquid (-9 | 155) | Discord: NeoIllusions#1984
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-14 02:18:19
December 14 2012 02:17 GMT
#53
On December 14 2012 11:15 NeoIllusions wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 11:13 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.


Really? How do they do this?

you still get to play if you get punished, you just play with all the other kids in time out.


What? lol
What's to stop them from doing what your saying in your example? Start a new Dota2 account and troll some newbs again.

there is far less incentive to do so. instead of being told "you can't play, unless you make a new account" you are just put in a different queue. you greatly exaggerate a troll's work ethic if you think he's gonna go through a whole process to do one thing when he can just keep on doing it.
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
December 14 2012 02:19 GMT
#54
On December 14 2012 11:17 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 11:15 NeoIllusions wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:13 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.


Really? How do they do this?

you still get to play if you get punished, you just play with all the other kids in time out.


What? lol
What's to stop them from doing what your saying in your example? Start a new Dota2 account and troll some newbs again.

there is far less incentive to do so. instead of being told "you can't play, unless you make a new account" you are just put in a different queue.


A typically longer queue, where you can't earn rating or items and are sure to encounter the scum of the earth. Not to mention new accounts have full access to all heroes.

Less incentive wut.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
December 14 2012 02:21 GMT
#55
Also if you are that much into items(which a lot of people are) you can just trade all the items you get from your smurf to your main account when the low priority status is over.
Cackle™
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
December 14 2012 02:21 GMT
#56
On December 14 2012 11:19 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 11:17 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:15 NeoIllusions wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:13 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.


Really? How do they do this?

you still get to play if you get punished, you just play with all the other kids in time out.


What? lol
What's to stop them from doing what your saying in your example? Start a new Dota2 account and troll some newbs again.

there is far less incentive to do so. instead of being told "you can't play, unless you make a new account" you are just put in a different queue.


A typically longer queue, where you can't earn rating or items and are sure to encounter the scum of the earth. Not to mention new accounts have full access to all heroes.

Less incentive wut.

thats why people stop playing and make new accounts when they hit high elo in lol right? the longer queues? the MMR system is hidden anyone you don't know you aren't getting any rating nor could you check your rating anyway, most of the items you get are chests anyway.
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-14 02:21:50
December 14 2012 02:21 GMT
#57
On December 14 2012 11:12 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 11:04 WaveofShadow wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:
From the old thread:

On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:
[quote]
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is.

Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with.

having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty.


There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them.

Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1).

so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed.


Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload.

i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency.


But right now we have all three. I don't see the problem.

this discussion has no point if you think this. i'm tired.

On December 14 2012 10:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Having a Tribunal doesn't make things any less accurate or less accountable. I don't get what your gripe about the system is. It efficiently and effectively removes toxic players from the pool more so than any other game developers' tool out there.


sign up for a new account. play 10 games. come back and post the same thing.

Unfortunately I agree on one of the points that PX makes, although doubtful for the reasons he would try to argue.
There is very little accountability (though arguably high accuracy and high efficiency) to the Tribunal due to the sheer volume of players that play the game and that pass through.

Riot has obviously stepped it up thanks to their report card system, however most of the report cards don't seem to do a whole lot when they only give you an unrepresentative snapshot of 3-4 of your 50 reportable games. The fact that you (most of the time) can't appeal this process means essentially that Riot has given up most of their accountability to the system, barring some exceptions, and there will be cases again due to sheer volume that slip through the cracks.

Obviously when you're trying to police a game with 30 mill subscribers that's going to be inevitable, but that doesn't mean there isn't room to improve.


But you're actually arguing a completely different point. PrinceXizor isn't looking to improve the system, he thinks it's completely pointless, unsalvageable, and worthless. He wants it gone. Second, he's arguing there's no accountability at all, whereas you're arguing that there's simply an insufficient amount due to sheer volume. You're really on completely different pages (and this is a good thing).

The system should be improved, not because it's bad (it isn't) but because it could be better. There's an irrational animosity toward the Tribunal in the community which borders on faked moon landing levels of wonkery, and that gets in the way of getting us closer to better accountability more than any boogeymen at Riot.

When the tribunal gave ip, I just checked to see if the player had any [all] chat, and if it did, I'd punish

I got like 90% of the cases correct lol
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
WaveofShadow
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Canada31495 Posts
December 14 2012 02:21 GMT
#58
On December 14 2012 11:17 PrinceXizor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 11:15 NeoIllusions wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:13 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.


Really? How do they do this?

you still get to play if you get punished, you just play with all the other kids in time out.


What? lol
What's to stop them from doing what your saying in your example? Start a new Dota2 account and troll some newbs again.

there is far less incentive to do so. instead of being told "you can't play, unless you make a new account" you are just put in a different queue. you greatly exaggerate a troll's work ethic if you think he's gonna go through a whole process to do one thing when he can just keep on doing it.

I don't think so, honestly.
I was placed in the leaver queue ONCE because we grouped with a friend who trolled/afked/whatever and it was absolutely awful. I rarely have LoL games as bad as this DotA one was in terms of trolling/leavers.

If PBUs or DotA's equivalent had to deal with that, there is no question at all in my mind that they'd just make new accounts. I never want to be in that queue again after even ONE game.

(I guess on that note, maybe it's a bigger deterrent? Nah, even then probably not. I'd be much more devastated if I lost my LoL account where I've earned 90% of all champs and runes and such.)
twitch.tv/waveofshadow ||| Winner of AHGL's So You Think You Can Cast! ||| Juicy Dad for lyfe ||| 'idk i get a kick out of stupid things' - Jarms Yarng
emperorchampion
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada9496 Posts
December 14 2012 02:23 GMT
#59
rofl, this TSM, so stronk
TRUEESPORTS || your days as a respected member of team liquid are over
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-14 02:25:41
December 14 2012 02:25 GMT
#60
On December 14 2012 11:21 WaveofShadow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 14 2012 11:17 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:15 NeoIllusions wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:13 PrinceXizor wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:12 Pooshlmer wrote:
On December 14 2012 11:07 PrinceXizor wrote:
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.


Really? How do they do this?

you still get to play if you get punished, you just play with all the other kids in time out.


What? lol
What's to stop them from doing what your saying in your example? Start a new Dota2 account and troll some newbs again.

there is far less incentive to do so. instead of being told "you can't play, unless you make a new account" you are just put in a different queue. you greatly exaggerate a troll's work ethic if you think he's gonna go through a whole process to do one thing when he can just keep on doing it.

I don't think so, honestly.
I was placed in the leaver queue ONCE because we grouped with a friend who trolled/afked/whatever and it was absolutely awful. I rarely have LoL games as bad as this DotA one was in terms of trolling/leavers.

If PBUs or DotA's equivalent had to deal with that, there is no question at all in my mind that they'd just make new accounts. I never want to be in that queue again after even ONE game.

(I guess on that note, maybe it's a bigger deterrent? Nah, even then probably not. I'd be much more devastated if I lost my LoL account where I've earned 90% of all champs and runes and such.)

making a new account in LoL IS putting yourself in a queue with mostly PBUs. except you also get to ruin new players days as well. oh and the best part is a new lol account is tribunal immune.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 449 450 451 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Invitational
11:00
Pre Blizzcon Cup
ByuN vs Percival
Cure vs Classic
WardiTV941
IntoTheiNu 940
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 139
MindelVK 32
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 48989
Calm 9287
PianO 4983
Jaedong 2189
Pusan 574
Hyuk 510
firebathero 461
Hyun 235
Last 202
Mini 197
[ Show more ]
ZerO 95
ggaemo 72
Mong 60
Sharp 49
Killer 40
NaDa 34
HiyA 34
Aegong 33
Hm[arnc] 31
sSak 31
Trap 29
Shinee 27
Shine 23
JulyZerg 18
sorry 15
Rock 15
SilentControl 13
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Dota 2
syndereN230
qojqva191
Fuzer 164
Counter-Strike
zeus748
edward593
x6flipin544
Other Games
summit1g19572
Happy385
DeMusliM271
Pyrionflax240
KnowMe66
ZerO(Twitch)6
amsayoshi0
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV204
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 25
lovetv 10
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Adnapsc2 70
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV616
League of Legends
• Jankos2226
Upcoming Events
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
2h 21m
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
3h 21m
Serral vs Rogue
BlizzCon
5h 51m
IdrA vs MC
Afreeca Starleague
21h 21m
Light vs JyJ
Soulkey vs hero
WardiTV Weekly
22h 21m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 3h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 21h
Snow vs Shinee
Shine vs EffOrt
GSL
1d 22h
PiGosaur Cup
2 days
The PondCast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
KCM Race Survival
3 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
GSL
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
GSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #5 - TRS
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.