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On December 14 2012 10:46 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote:
Diana nerfs are too much, imo.
Disagree, all the nerfs seem pretty much spot-on to me- to Cho, Diana, Rengar, Teemo, Zyra, Brutalizer & Black Cleaver. Loved this patch.
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wow gg Curse! I thought for sure they had thrown, glad they pulled it out. 2 more wins to go now...
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On December 14 2012 10:52 AsnSensation wrote:
FIrst Page Post because I can!
Easy to be brave when nocturne has lvl 1 ult.Cd won't be up til tomorrow.
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On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:On December 14 2012 09:56 Seuss wrote:
We've been there. Odd as it may seem hiring someone to spend 8+ hours a day wading through filth is actually slower, less efficient.
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is. Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed.
Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload.
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United States37500 Posts
On December 14 2012 10:54 TheKefka wrote:Easy to be brave when nocturne has lvl 1 ult.Cd won't be up til tomorrow.
People shouldn't take advantage of the fact that I'm sick. I can roam via phone npnp.
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On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:On December 14 2012 09:56 Seuss wrote:
We've been there. Odd as it may seem hiring someone to spend 8+ hours a day wading through filth is actually slower, less efficient.
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is. Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload.
i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency.
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On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:On December 14 2012 09:56 Seuss wrote:
We've been there. Odd as it may seem hiring someone to spend 8+ hours a day wading through filth is actually slower, less efficient.
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is. Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. the way the system is set up now, riot controls everything, but can deny responsibility and hide behind the community for any mistakes, as well as not having to pay as many people. it's scummy and i don't like it.
The tribunal is not superfluous because most of the candidates Riot reviews for bans come from tribunal punishments.
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On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:On December 14 2012 09:56 Seuss wrote:
We've been there. Odd as it may seem hiring someone to spend 8+ hours a day wading through filth is actually slower, less efficient.
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is. Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload. i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency.
But right now we have all three. I don't see the problem.
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United States37500 Posts
On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:On December 14 2012 09:56 Seuss wrote:
We've been there. Odd as it may seem hiring someone to spend 8+ hours a day wading through filth is actually slower, less efficient.
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is. Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload. i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency.
Having a Tribunal doesn't make things any less accurate or less accountable. I don't get what your gripe about the system is. It efficiently and effectively removes toxic players from the pool more so than any other game developers' tool out there.
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On December 14 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:On December 14 2012 09:56 Seuss wrote:
We've been there. Odd as it may seem hiring someone to spend 8+ hours a day wading through filth is actually slower, less efficient.
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is. Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload. i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency. But right now we have all three. I don't see the problem.
this discussion has no point if you think this. i'm tired.
On December 14 2012 10:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Having a Tribunal doesn't make things any less accurate or less accountable. I don't get what your gripe about the system is. It efficiently and effectively removes toxic players from the pool more so than any other game developers' tool out there.
sign up for a new account. play 10 games. come back and post the same thing.
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United States37500 Posts
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On December 14 2012 10:59 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:On December 14 2012 09:56 Seuss wrote:
We've been there. Odd as it may seem hiring someone to spend 8+ hours a day wading through filth is actually slower, less efficient.
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is. Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload. i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency. Having a Tribunal doesn't make things any less accurate or less accountable. I don't get what your gripe about the system is. It efficiently and effectively removes toxic players from the pool more so than any other game developers' tool out there.
Agreed, they certainly get a lot more done than the reporting system ever has for SC2.
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As much as I think diana needed a nerf, I'm still gonna cry over it. <3 diana :'(
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United States37500 Posts
On December 14 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:On December 14 2012 09:56 Seuss wrote:
We've been there. Odd as it may seem hiring someone to spend 8+ hours a day wading through filth is actually slower, less efficient.
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is. Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload. i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency. But right now we have all three. I don't see the problem. this discussion has no point if you think this. i'm tired. Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 10:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Having a Tribunal doesn't make things any less accurate or less accountable. I don't get what your gripe about the system is. It efficiently and effectively removes toxic players from the pool more so than any other game developers' tool out there.
sign up for a new account. play 10 games. come back and post the same thing.
Pretty sure Riot doesn't attempt (much) to control anything under level 30. Because like you said, anyone can just sign up for a new account. There's no much invested in a sub level 10 account.
But that's not here or there, that has no standing for or against the Tribunal.
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On December 14 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:On December 14 2012 09:56 Seuss wrote:
We've been there. Odd as it may seem hiring someone to spend 8+ hours a day wading through filth is actually slower, less efficient.
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is. Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload. i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency. But right now we have all three. I don't see the problem. this discussion has no point if you think this. i'm tired. Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 10:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Having a Tribunal doesn't make things any less accurate or less accountable. I don't get what your gripe about the system is. It efficiently and effectively removes toxic players from the pool more so than any other game developers' tool out there.
sign up for a new account. play 10 games. come back and post the same thing.
Unfortunately I agree on one of the points that PX makes, although doubtful for the reasons he would try to argue.
There is very little accountability (though arguably high accuracy and high efficiency) to the Tribunal due to the sheer volume of players that play the game and that pass through.
Riot has obviously stepped it up thanks to their report card system, however most of the report cards don't seem to do a whole lot when they only give you an unrepresentative snapshot of 3-4 of your 50 reportable games. The fact that you (most of the time) can't appeal this process means essentially that Riot has given up most of their accountability to the system, barring some exceptions, and there will be cases again due to sheer volume that slip through the cracks.
Obviously when you're trying to police a game with 30 mill subscribers that's going to be inevitable, but that doesn't mean there isn't room to improve.
I''d like to make it clear that on the whole I do believe the system works, and I don't agree that accuracy > efficiency when you're dealing with millions of people. 'The needs of the many' and all that.
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sign up for a new account. play 10 games. come back and post the same thing.
Well no shit, you can't establish toxicity from like 10 games played. There simply aren't enough data points to do that, even with a heavy bias towards new players.
The point of the Tribunal is not to do all the work for Riot, but to filter results from a report pool of a couple million active players so that Riot can manage the more severe punishments that potentially requires a human to handle properly.
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I played 10 games on a smurf not 1 month ago. It was a perfectly enjoyable experience for what it was I belive. You really need to learn to stop being so negative about everything that comes along px. Yango does it and is fine beacuse he doesn't come off as hateful of the game itself. You come off as you'd rather be playing dota instead.
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On December 14 2012 11:03 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 11:00 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:58 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:57 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:55 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 10:51 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:46 Seuss wrote:From the old thread: On December 14 2012 10:31 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 10:01 TheYango wrote:On December 14 2012 09:56 Seuss wrote:
We've been there. Odd as it may seem hiring someone to spend 8+ hours a day wading through filth is actually slower, less efficient.
Well to be fair, I don't think any of the complaints about Tribunal have remotely to do with how fast or efficient it is. Having a Riot employee do this means that there's someone accountable for errors. The tribunal as it stands means accountability is in the hands of "the community" which isn't exactly something I'm comfortable with. having a riot employee means that they can also develop a standard to be used across all cases, not thousands of individual standards ranging from i will carefully determine the guilt to lol guilty. There are Riot employees. Warnings are automated, but when you start getting suspensions actual human beings employed by Riot are involved. They are accountable for every ban, and as such there is or should be a standard determined by Riot which these employees use to evaluate the cases that come before them. Again, the system isn't perfect, but your particular concerns as quoted seem somewhat misguided unless you assume that Riot does not actively participate in their own system (when that's one thing they've stressed they do since day 1). so again, if there is a riot employee behind every ban, why HAVE tribunal it's entirely superfluous and should be removed. Because, as I've said before, it's ridiculously more efficient to have the LoL community do the grunt work and then have Riot employees review it than to try and hire enough people to handle that workload. i'd rather have accuracy and accountability than efficiency. But right now we have all three. I don't see the problem. this discussion has no point if you think this. i'm tired. On December 14 2012 10:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
Having a Tribunal doesn't make things any less accurate or less accountable. I don't get what your gripe about the system is. It efficiently and effectively removes toxic players from the pool more so than any other game developers' tool out there.
sign up for a new account. play 10 games. come back and post the same thing. Pretty sure Riot doesn't attempt (much) to control anything under level 30. Because like you said, anyone can just sign up for a new account. There's no much invested in a sub level 10 account. But that's not here or there, that has no standing for or against the Tribunal.
playing a low level account is the equivilent of playing with 7 PBU's and 1 new players friend and 2 new players.
that's disgusting. the tribunal is doing exactly nothing to remove toxic players from the pool. literally nothing. at least dota 2 ACTUALLY removes them from the pool for new and old players alike.
On December 14 2012 11:05 Sermokala wrote:
I played 10 games on a smurf not 1 month ago. It was a perfectly enjoyable experience for what it was I belive. You really need to learn to stop being so negative about everything that comes along px. Yango does it and is fine beacuse he doesn't come off as hateful of the game itself. You come off as you'd rather be playing dota instead.
The people i have to deal with in game make me want to play dota instead. dota is fun but my real life friends play this game so i'd like to as well, but i can't always play with 4 friends, if i could this wouldn't be an issue. the community for LoL is shifting from being bad to everyone to being bad to people around 1200 ELO and new players.specifically because 1200 is the starting point so all the PBUs are around there.
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On December 14 2012 10:38 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:
PIERCE THE VEIL is such a cool quote
Man, my favorite puzzle from last year's MIT puzzle hunt was titled "Piercing the Veil". It was a puzzle that was presented in the form of a forum thread of the authors talking about their puzzle, from which we had to reconstruct the puzzle based on their comments and then solve it.
And then you realize brutalizer took a big hit
Eh, it's the same 5 pen hit that every flat MPen item took, and people still bought those. Flat pen being more powerful lends to this being not that big of a hit - brutalizer was undeserving of slipping under the nerf-radar relative to all the other penetration items anyway.
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EPT
