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On December 14 2012 23:28 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. If they also nerfed the range of her Q to match her ult, would that make her better?
It would make her worse, but it'd make her kit more consistent. A spell that is literally designed to set up your ult being too far for your ult is dumb. I'm not whining, I don't care, I don't play Diana much because I prefer other champions, but it's clear they made it a specific design choice to have her q and r have the exact same range so she can follow up on landed Qs.
On December 14 2012 23:25 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. On December 14 2012 22:59 Tobberoth wrote:
Hopefully the diana nerfs are strong enough that we don't have to ban her every single draft pick. It's fine to get sad when a hero you've been owning it up with for a while gets nerfed, but please realize it's good for the game when bonker-OP heroes are nerfed. If she has been nerfed so hard that no one will be playing her, she will be buffed again, so there's nothing to whine about. I don't' play but, I think she's one of the more interesting champions that gets played mid in tournaments, and is one of the only champs who plays well against op as heck Orianna. For how tanky she was, she had way too much damage and utility. Was it too much? Possibly, but everyone stop whining until you can actually play her and find out. More likely, she'll still be plenty usable and less faceroll. Zyra got a decent nerf. I currently have an 80% win rate with Zyra mid. Do you see me complaining? No, she needed the nerf. Will I stop playing her? Absolutely not, she is still going to be strong due to the nature of the kit. tl;dr Stop complaining, learn to adapt.
I wasn't whining. I was pointing out clunky design. You are rude and follow it up with a strawman argument that has nothing to do with what I'm saying because I don't play Diana, so why should I care if a champ you played got nerfed? I don't think Zyra's E missile speed will affect the way her combos execute (since her seeds are instant place), moreso than just make it more difficult to hit -- similar to the gragas e speed nerf.
tl;dr Your post is dumb and rude for no reason.
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Diana needed the nerf because not only did she counter the champions that she was more or less designed to (low mobility like TF, squishy melee like Kat), but then she also countered everything else. I think it was too much, though.
I wonder if the mid nerf will cause a resurgence of jungle Diana, which is honestly really good. I mean, the R range nerf hurt her ganks as well, but she still brings tankiness and the pull, and clears really fast. I kind of want to play it a bit more if we need an AP jungler.
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I saw the assets for Steel legion lux on the download. That isn't even out on the PBE the last time I checked.
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I actually agree that she was too strong, but that doesn't change the fact that now her kit, which was previously unbelievably well designed (maybe TOO well designed) now conflicts with itself and the original purpose of how her q and r were supposed to work together. I also think it'll make mid champ picks in tournaments more boring as everyone's gonna pick ori since one of her few counters got smashed.
This literally doesn't affect my game or how much i will enjoy league so let me be clear that I'm not whining about the change. Please, no one be jcarl.
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On December 15 2012 00:37 TwoToneTerran wrote:
I actually agree that she was too strong, but that doesn't change the fact that now her kit, which was previously unbelievably well designed (maybe TOO well designed) now conflicts with itself and the original purpose of how her q and r were supposed to work together. I also think it'll make mid champ picks in tournaments more boring as everyone's gonna pick ori since one of her few counters got smashed.
I don't think it conflicts, just comboing is more of a risk/more difficult now. While having them both the same (or similar) ranges was very fluid, it was also stupidly easy to set up a QWRER combo (or at least I think that's what it was, haven't played her in a while). Now, if you want to do an instant Q -> R dash combo with the reset, you have to put yourself out in front more to instantly R the second your Q lands.
Poking with Q will still be as effective (well, ~10-30 damage less effective), and simply running up and R'ing to a target will still be good. You just can't easily QR from a million miles away.
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I have a question:
As a low ELO player (~1300 or something) I often end up playing support and getting an abnormal amount of gold. Lately I've been playing a lot of Sona. If say bottom lane dominates and I'm getting a bunch of kills/assists (yes I know don't ks from adc, but it happens), and I'm getting in to the mid game with as much gold as my opponents laners, how should I be switching up my build (if at all)? Say for Sona (or taric, or any other support I guess) should I still continue building my regular stuff (locket/aegis/shruileyas/etc)? Or should I be building AP? Or what?
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On December 14 2012 21:30 zer0das wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 19:26 Lixo wrote:
what riot REALLY needs to nerf is the dodging, it is getting ridiculous. I wanna play a game I spend half of the game duration in selection screen.
Literally. Yesterday I endured what must have been about 20 que dodges because some jerk on my side of the draft kept calling top and being really belligerent about it. Then someone on the other team would dodge when no one on our team dodged, so it took like 30 minutes to get a game started while the dodges ping ponged back and forth. I thought the main instigator eventually dodged, but he ended up on the other team as Malzahar mid and went 0-5-4, while I killed him multiple times as support Sona. It almost made it worth it.
Seriously, fuck you Riot. Why won't they put in champ select reporting + chat log > Tribunal.
"blah or troll"
"blah or afk"
What a waste of my fucking time. Only way to play LoL is premade 5s, then the game is actually quite fun.
PS: Yes, I am mad right now.
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United States37500 Posts
On December 15 2012 00:55 Complete wrote:
I have a question:
As a low ELO player (~1300 or something) I often end up playing support and getting an abnormal amount of gold. Lately I've been playing a lot of Sona. If say bottom lane dominates and I'm getting a bunch of kills/assists (yes I know don't ks from adc, but it happens), and I'm getting in to the mid game with as much gold as my opponents laners, how should I be switching up my build (if at all)? Say for Sona (or taric, or any other support I guess) should I still continue building my regular stuff (locket/aegis/shruileyas/etc)? Or should I be building AP? Or what?
Stick with support items. Your goal is to provide utility for your team. There are a variety of support items to choose from now.
AP on support is not as valuable because your ratios will typically be subpar. There are a few exceptions like Zyra.
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United States37500 Posts
On December 15 2012 00:56 foxmeep wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 21:30 zer0das wrote:On December 14 2012 19:26 Lixo wrote:
what riot REALLY needs to nerf is the dodging, it is getting ridiculous. I wanna play a game I spend half of the game duration in selection screen.
Literally. Yesterday I endured what must have been about 20 que dodges because some jerk on my side of the draft kept calling top and being really belligerent about it. Then someone on the other team would dodge when no one on our team dodged, so it took like 30 minutes to get a game started while the dodges ping ponged back and forth. I thought the main instigator eventually dodged, but he ended up on the other team as Malzahar mid and went 0-5-4, while I killed him multiple times as support Sona. It almost made it worth it. Seriously, fuck you Riot. Why won't they put in champ select reporting + chat log > Tribunal. "blah or troll" "blah or afk" What a waste of my fucking time. Only way to play LoL is premade 5s, then the game is actually quite fun. PS: Yes, I am mad right now.
Use QQ thread. Thanks.
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On December 15 2012 00:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 23:28 thenexusp wrote:On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. If they also nerfed the range of her Q to match her ult, would that make her better? It would make her worse, but it'd make her kit more consistent. A spell that is literally designed to set up your ult being too far for your ult is dumb. I'm not whining, I don't care, I don't play Diana much because I prefer other champions, but it's clear they made it a specific design choice to have her q and r have the exact same range so she can follow up on landed Qs. Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 23:25 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. On December 14 2012 22:59 Tobberoth wrote:
Hopefully the diana nerfs are strong enough that we don't have to ban her every single draft pick. It's fine to get sad when a hero you've been owning it up with for a while gets nerfed, but please realize it's good for the game when bonker-OP heroes are nerfed. If she has been nerfed so hard that no one will be playing her, she will be buffed again, so there's nothing to whine about. I don't' play but, I think she's one of the more interesting champions that gets played mid in tournaments, and is one of the only champs who plays well against op as heck Orianna. For how tanky she was, she had way too much damage and utility. Was it too much? Possibly, but everyone stop whining until you can actually play her and find out. More likely, she'll still be plenty usable and less faceroll. Zyra got a decent nerf. I currently have an 80% win rate with Zyra mid. Do you see me complaining? No, she needed the nerf. Will I stop playing her? Absolutely not, she is still going to be strong due to the nature of the kit. tl;dr Stop complaining, learn to adapt. I wasn't whining. I was pointing out clunky design. You are rude and follow it up with a strawman argument that has nothing to do with what I'm saying because I don't play Diana, so why should I care if a champ you played got nerfed? I don't think Zyra's E missile speed will affect the way her combos execute (since her seeds are instant place), moreso than just make it more difficult to hit -- similar to the gragas e speed nerf. tl;dr Your post is dumb and rude for no reason.
My tl;dr was not pointed at you, it was a general statement. My mistake for not clarifying that.
This thread has been rife with complaining the last few days, I just want it to stop.
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United States37500 Posts
On December 15 2012 00:58 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 00:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 23:28 thenexusp wrote:On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. If they also nerfed the range of her Q to match her ult, would that make her better? It would make her worse, but it'd make her kit more consistent. A spell that is literally designed to set up your ult being too far for your ult is dumb. I'm not whining, I don't care, I don't play Diana much because I prefer other champions, but it's clear they made it a specific design choice to have her q and r have the exact same range so she can follow up on landed Qs. On December 14 2012 23:25 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. On December 14 2012 22:59 Tobberoth wrote:
Hopefully the diana nerfs are strong enough that we don't have to ban her every single draft pick. It's fine to get sad when a hero you've been owning it up with for a while gets nerfed, but please realize it's good for the game when bonker-OP heroes are nerfed. If she has been nerfed so hard that no one will be playing her, she will be buffed again, so there's nothing to whine about. I don't' play but, I think she's one of the more interesting champions that gets played mid in tournaments, and is one of the only champs who plays well against op as heck Orianna. For how tanky she was, she had way too much damage and utility. Was it too much? Possibly, but everyone stop whining until you can actually play her and find out. More likely, she'll still be plenty usable and less faceroll. Zyra got a decent nerf. I currently have an 80% win rate with Zyra mid. Do you see me complaining? No, she needed the nerf. Will I stop playing her? Absolutely not, she is still going to be strong due to the nature of the kit. tl;dr Stop complaining, learn to adapt. I wasn't whining. I was pointing out clunky design. You are rude and follow it up with a strawman argument that has nothing to do with what I'm saying because I don't play Diana, so why should I care if a champ you played got nerfed? I don't think Zyra's E missile speed will affect the way her combos execute (since her seeds are instant place), moreso than just make it more difficult to hit -- similar to the gragas e speed nerf. tl;dr Your post is dumb and rude for no reason. My tl;dr was not pointed at you, it was a general statement. My mistake for not clarifying that. This thread has been rife with complaining the last few days, I just want it to stop.
Hear, hear.
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On December 15 2012 00:58 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 00:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 23:28 thenexusp wrote:On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. If they also nerfed the range of her Q to match her ult, would that make her better? It would make her worse, but it'd make her kit more consistent. A spell that is literally designed to set up your ult being too far for your ult is dumb. I'm not whining, I don't care, I don't play Diana much because I prefer other champions, but it's clear they made it a specific design choice to have her q and r have the exact same range so she can follow up on landed Qs. On December 14 2012 23:25 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. On December 14 2012 22:59 Tobberoth wrote:
Hopefully the diana nerfs are strong enough that we don't have to ban her every single draft pick. It's fine to get sad when a hero you've been owning it up with for a while gets nerfed, but please realize it's good for the game when bonker-OP heroes are nerfed. If she has been nerfed so hard that no one will be playing her, she will be buffed again, so there's nothing to whine about. I don't' play but, I think she's one of the more interesting champions that gets played mid in tournaments, and is one of the only champs who plays well against op as heck Orianna. For how tanky she was, she had way too much damage and utility. Was it too much? Possibly, but everyone stop whining until you can actually play her and find out. More likely, she'll still be plenty usable and less faceroll. Zyra got a decent nerf. I currently have an 80% win rate with Zyra mid. Do you see me complaining? No, she needed the nerf. Will I stop playing her? Absolutely not, she is still going to be strong due to the nature of the kit. tl;dr Stop complaining, learn to adapt. I wasn't whining. I was pointing out clunky design. You are rude and follow it up with a strawman argument that has nothing to do with what I'm saying because I don't play Diana, so why should I care if a champ you played got nerfed? I don't think Zyra's E missile speed will affect the way her combos execute (since her seeds are instant place), moreso than just make it more difficult to hit -- similar to the gragas e speed nerf. tl;dr Your post is dumb and rude for no reason. My tl;dr was not pointed at you, it was a general statement. My mistake for not clarifying that. This thread has been rife with complaining the last few days, I just want it to stop.
That's fine, but no need to just assume people are complaining about their favorite champ being nerfed when it isn't really stated.
Taking my Diana point to an unreasonable extreme -- Imagine if Lux was considered amazingly op, and they nerfed her by making her autoattack range equivalent to a normal Melee champ. Maybe she'd be less op, but clearly her kit is designed to be proccing her passive at a reasonable distance because that's where her spells usually "catch" people -- even though you CAN hit her spells at a closer range and proc them with melee autoattacks. It's not exactly comparable, but I feel like it makes a kit more counter intuitive.
I like smooth kits but I understand she was OP so at worst I'm ambivalent about it.
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Why have riot not nerfed the R range to the Q range so they belong together....
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On December 15 2012 00:55 Complete wrote:
I have a question:
As a low ELO player (~1300 or something) I often end up playing support and getting an abnormal amount of gold. Lately I've been playing a lot of Sona. If say bottom lane dominates and I'm getting a bunch of kills/assists (yes I know don't ks from adc, but it happens), and I'm getting in to the mid game with as much gold as my opponents laners, how should I be switching up my build (if at all)? Say for Sona (or taric, or any other support I guess) should I still continue building my regular stuff (locket/aegis/shruileyas/etc)? Or should I be building AP? Or what?
well nowadays there are more support items (mikael's/twinshadows/etc.) so choose the one you think will be best for the situation. if their team is towerhugging hard, it does you no good to rush shurelya's since you won't have as many opportunities to pursue, etc.
the other thing is that if you have more gold, and you're pretty farmed bot, you can roam for map control, place down wards in places other than bot lane. if your adc is farmed he should have no problem sticking it out by himself while you put down wards.
the ap ratios on most supports are miniscule so you don't want to build items direct for AP. items like twin shadows have AP but it's more or less for the utility of the item as opposed to the stats. however generally if you're getting to mid game with as much gold as the laners, you're probably dominating them and you can get whatever you want.
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I still don't like BC..
I think the problem was the fact that it gave 250 hp as well as it's ridiculous armor pen. If people want to build straight damage like that, they shouldn't get bonus HP too. If an AD caster wants to build massive damage and arpen thats fine, but they should melt just as fine as they melt you, and that wasn't the case because of the hp. Why don't we just throw 250 hp onto voidstaffs now too? Or IE. Or every item?
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If you're winning as support by a lot, just skip gp5, rush Aegis then Meijas.
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so when i buy 2x bc now do i still get cdr+ 10flat armo pen also what happens when i buy bc + brutalizer do i get arm pen and cdr or just get stats from bc and flat 25 dmg (that would be dumb)
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my launcher says its busy but the server status says its open.
Servers up now.
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On December 15 2012 01:16 Ian Ian Ian wrote:
I still don't like BC..
I think the problem was the fact that it gave 250 hp as well as it's ridiculous armor pen. If people want to build straight damage like that, they shouldn't get bonus HP too. If an AD caster wants to build massive damage and arpen thats fine, but they should melt just as fine as they melt you, and that wasn't the case because of the hp. Why don't we just throw 250 hp onto voidstaffs now too? Or IE. Or every item?
I think it's a "role" they have in their mindset. They want it to be used on melee AD casters like Panth, Riven, and Talon. In their mind (and I'm not saying I 100% agree), these melee characters can't afford to build a straight damage item, and they want some sort of defense in place because they're going into melee range. Hence, health. They could have done it with lifesteal, i suppose, but BotRK/Cutlass and BT already cover the Lifesteal/AD items.
That said, there are already "big damage" items with defenses on them, even before new BC. Zhonya, Abyssal, Maw were all high AP or AD and had decent defense on them. Now we have Mercurial Scimitar as well. Whether BC's health is too much or not is debatable, but don't presume high damage/good defense items don't exist elsewhere.
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Anyone else's friends list get cleared after patch?
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EPT
