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United States35174 Posts
I hope the overall nerf to Diana isn't as suppressing as it seems. I have trouble finding mids that I want to play and she kinda took my mid viginity. lol
Time will tell, maybe FH will become needed or somesuch *shrug*
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remember to ban eve now, she was 5 times stronger then diana already and went untouched lol. (talking purely solo q here)
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United States23745 Posts
I've yet to try out Diana after the nerfs, but she might still be viable mid. Overall her damage/tankyness wasn't really hit that hard, just a lot of usability. Getting in range to set up your combo requires a little more danger, but if you W and then Q-R-E someone you are still going to do decent damage and displace them with Moonfall, you just lose the utility of it hitting multiple people. I'll reserve a final judgement till we can all get some more playtime. On paper it still seems kind of harsh though.
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Well, there is a difference in efficiency there. Mercurial Scimitar is mostly a way to upgrade your QSS lategame (as far as I know - I haven't really played around with it a lot), unless you're getting serious mileage out of the 1 sec speedboost.
Zhonya: about 2/3 offensive stats
Abyssal: about 2/3 offensive stats, if you value the aura at 400 (which is usually going to be undervaluing it somewhat, but it's highly variable how valuable the aura is)
Maw: a little under 2/3 to almost 100% of the cost is in offensive stats, but it's not 100% reliable.
Black Cleaver: Much more offense weighted - 2/3 of it is offensive, plus the passive and the cooldown reduction, while only ~1/5 of it is defensive.
These are very rough estimates here, but they show a few aspects of Riot's design philosophy:
Items that give a mixture of offense and defense don't generally give the multiplicative stats that are necessary for comparable late-game damage output on a pure glass cannon build.
Multiplicative stats aren't really found on mixed offense/defense items.
- The more recent mixed AD items only give raw AD or raw attackspeed, with very few options for crit chance.
I might come back to this later but I have class now. hopefully no GD dramasplosion meanwhile
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On December 15 2012 01:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
I've yet to try out Diana after the nerfs, but she might still be viable mid. Overall her damage/tankyness wasn't really hit that hard, just a lot of usability. Getting in range to set up your combo requires a little more danger, but if you W and then Q-R-E someone you are still going to do decent damage and displace them with Moonfall, you just lose the utility of it hitting multiple people. I'll reserve a final judgement till we can all get some more playtime. On paper it still seems kind of harsh though.
Honestly, I am more concerned about how it's going to nerf her most fun jungle mechanic, which was checking buffs with Q and then R to jump over wall.
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On December 15 2012 01:50 NEOtheONE wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 01:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
I've yet to try out Diana after the nerfs, but she might still be viable mid. Overall her damage/tankyness wasn't really hit that hard, just a lot of usability. Getting in range to set up your combo requires a little more danger, but if you W and then Q-R-E someone you are still going to do decent damage and displace them with Moonfall, you just lose the utility of it hitting multiple people. I'll reserve a final judgement till we can all get some more playtime. On paper it still seems kind of harsh though. Honestly, I am more concerned about how it's going to nerf her most fun jungle mechanic, which was checking buffs with Q and then R to jump over wall.
She can still do it, just not from 10000 yards away anymore.
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On December 15 2012 01:52 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 01:50 NEOtheONE wrote:On December 15 2012 01:48 onlywonderboy wrote:
I've yet to try out Diana after the nerfs, but she might still be viable mid. Overall her damage/tankyness wasn't really hit that hard, just a lot of usability. Getting in range to set up your combo requires a little more danger, but if you W and then Q-R-E someone you are still going to do decent damage and displace them with Moonfall, you just lose the utility of it hitting multiple people. I'll reserve a final judgement till we can all get some more playtime. On paper it still seems kind of harsh though. Honestly, I am more concerned about how it's going to nerf her most fun jungle mechanic, which was checking buffs with Q and then R to jump over wall. She can still do it, just not from 10000 yards away anymore.
Yes, but she can't do it with dragon anymore, because to go over the wall to dragon was max range of Q.
Also: Whoot got my name change. Now my LoL name and my TL name finally match.
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On December 15 2012 00:55 Complete wrote:
I have a question:
As a low ELO player (~1300 or something) I often end up playing support and getting an abnormal amount of gold. Lately I've been playing a lot of Sona. If say bottom lane dominates and I'm getting a bunch of kills/assists (yes I know don't ks from adc, but it happens), and I'm getting in to the mid game with as much gold as my opponents laners, how should I be switching up my build (if at all)? Say for Sona (or taric, or any other support I guess) should I still continue building my regular stuff (locket/aegis/shruileyas/etc)? Or should I be building AP? Or what?
you should try zyra or lux support if that happens too often.
i have seen numerous zyra supports in asian teams that ended up being a 2nd ap carry.
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One question: who exactly is PBU? From the context I quess its a experienced player who like to stomps newbies, but I'm not sure.
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On December 15 2012 01:05 TwoToneTerran wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 00:58 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 15 2012 00:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 23:28 thenexusp wrote:On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. If they also nerfed the range of her Q to match her ult, would that make her better? It would make her worse, but it'd make her kit more consistent. A spell that is literally designed to set up your ult being too far for your ult is dumb. I'm not whining, I don't care, I don't play Diana much because I prefer other champions, but it's clear they made it a specific design choice to have her q and r have the exact same range so she can follow up on landed Qs. On December 14 2012 23:25 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. On December 14 2012 22:59 Tobberoth wrote:
Hopefully the diana nerfs are strong enough that we don't have to ban her every single draft pick. It's fine to get sad when a hero you've been owning it up with for a while gets nerfed, but please realize it's good for the game when bonker-OP heroes are nerfed. If she has been nerfed so hard that no one will be playing her, she will be buffed again, so there's nothing to whine about. I don't' play but, I think she's one of the more interesting champions that gets played mid in tournaments, and is one of the only champs who plays well against op as heck Orianna. For how tanky she was, she had way too much damage and utility. Was it too much? Possibly, but everyone stop whining until you can actually play her and find out. More likely, she'll still be plenty usable and less faceroll. Zyra got a decent nerf. I currently have an 80% win rate with Zyra mid. Do you see me complaining? No, she needed the nerf. Will I stop playing her? Absolutely not, she is still going to be strong due to the nature of the kit. tl;dr Stop complaining, learn to adapt. I wasn't whining. I was pointing out clunky design. You are rude and follow it up with a strawman argument that has nothing to do with what I'm saying because I don't play Diana, so why should I care if a champ you played got nerfed? I don't think Zyra's E missile speed will affect the way her combos execute (since her seeds are instant place), moreso than just make it more difficult to hit -- similar to the gragas e speed nerf. tl;dr Your post is dumb and rude for no reason. My tl;dr was not pointed at you, it was a general statement. My mistake for not clarifying that. This thread has been rife with complaining the last few days, I just want it to stop. That's fine, but no need to just assume people are complaining about their favorite champ being nerfed when it isn't really stated. Taking my Diana point to an unreasonable extreme -- Imagine if Lux was considered amazingly op, and they nerfed her by making her autoattack range equivalent to a normal Melee champ. Maybe she'd be less op, but clearly her kit is designed to be proccing her passive at a reasonable distance because that's where her spells usually "catch" people -- even though you CAN hit her spells at a closer range and proc them with melee autoattacks. It's not exactly comparable, but I feel like it makes a kit more counter intuitive. I like smooth kits but I understand she was OP so at worst I'm ambivalent about it.
Nah bro, Lux is about ulting every 24 seconds for 1000 dmg with Mejais. huehuehueheuehuehueh.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 15 2012 02:16 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 01:05 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 15 2012 00:58 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 15 2012 00:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 23:28 thenexusp wrote:On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. If they also nerfed the range of her Q to match her ult, would that make her better? It would make her worse, but it'd make her kit more consistent. A spell that is literally designed to set up your ult being too far for your ult is dumb. I'm not whining, I don't care, I don't play Diana much because I prefer other champions, but it's clear they made it a specific design choice to have her q and r have the exact same range so she can follow up on landed Qs. On December 14 2012 23:25 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. On December 14 2012 22:59 Tobberoth wrote:
Hopefully the diana nerfs are strong enough that we don't have to ban her every single draft pick. It's fine to get sad when a hero you've been owning it up with for a while gets nerfed, but please realize it's good for the game when bonker-OP heroes are nerfed. If she has been nerfed so hard that no one will be playing her, she will be buffed again, so there's nothing to whine about. I don't' play but, I think she's one of the more interesting champions that gets played mid in tournaments, and is one of the only champs who plays well against op as heck Orianna. For how tanky she was, she had way too much damage and utility. Was it too much? Possibly, but everyone stop whining until you can actually play her and find out. More likely, she'll still be plenty usable and less faceroll. Zyra got a decent nerf. I currently have an 80% win rate with Zyra mid. Do you see me complaining? No, she needed the nerf. Will I stop playing her? Absolutely not, she is still going to be strong due to the nature of the kit. tl;dr Stop complaining, learn to adapt. I wasn't whining. I was pointing out clunky design. You are rude and follow it up with a strawman argument that has nothing to do with what I'm saying because I don't play Diana, so why should I care if a champ you played got nerfed? I don't think Zyra's E missile speed will affect the way her combos execute (since her seeds are instant place), moreso than just make it more difficult to hit -- similar to the gragas e speed nerf. tl;dr Your post is dumb and rude for no reason. My tl;dr was not pointed at you, it was a general statement. My mistake for not clarifying that. This thread has been rife with complaining the last few days, I just want it to stop. That's fine, but no need to just assume people are complaining about their favorite champ being nerfed when it isn't really stated. Taking my Diana point to an unreasonable extreme -- Imagine if Lux was considered amazingly op, and they nerfed her by making her autoattack range equivalent to a normal Melee champ. Maybe she'd be less op, but clearly her kit is designed to be proccing her passive at a reasonable distance because that's where her spells usually "catch" people -- even though you CAN hit her spells at a closer range and proc them with melee autoattacks. It's not exactly comparable, but I feel like it makes a kit more counter intuitive. I like smooth kits but I understand she was OP so at worst I'm ambivalent about it. Nah bro, Lux is about ulting every 24 seconds for 1000 dmg with Mejais. huehuehueheuehuehueh.
I thought she was all about spamming laugh.
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On December 15 2012 02:04 LaNague wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 00:55 Complete wrote:
I have a question:
As a low ELO player (~1300 or something) I often end up playing support and getting an abnormal amount of gold. Lately I've been playing a lot of Sona. If say bottom lane dominates and I'm getting a bunch of kills/assists (yes I know don't ks from adc, but it happens), and I'm getting in to the mid game with as much gold as my opponents laners, how should I be switching up my build (if at all)? Say for Sona (or taric, or any other support I guess) should I still continue building my regular stuff (locket/aegis/shruileyas/etc)? Or should I be building AP? Or what? you should try zyra or lux support if that happens too often. i have seen numerous zyra supports in asian teams that ended up being a 2nd ap carry.
sona is pretty fine with some extra gold. And yes build regular support stuff. there are so many really strong support items now. if you get alot of gold you should start to care less about not getting behind in levels and start roaming and warding more often. you will naturally get behind in your gold advantage while you give super extra map control and enhance the farm roles better.
with sona it is also common to get some kills now and then during laneing phase in very close fights/ganks. don't try to be something your not. instead of being a shitty 2nd ap start to be a very strong super support who baits, pokes, wards more often. you can for example just go all-in on their carry at the right moment. you and him will have low health after this so you can bluepill, give your carry free farm and tons of exp, while you get more wards and roam the jungle. do stuff like that instead of trying to somehow get to a deathcap.
the closest to a ap-carry support i saw in a serious game was a tripple gold morgana getting a zonyas at 45min or so. this was planned and executed by the whole team and only works because of this. as a soloq support you have to keep your head down and do what your teammates base their plays on. this is probably one of the most important things in soloq.
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On December 15 2012 02:19 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 02:16 ShaLLoW[baY] wrote:On December 15 2012 01:05 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 15 2012 00:58 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 15 2012 00:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 23:28 thenexusp wrote:On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. If they also nerfed the range of her Q to match her ult, would that make her better? It would make her worse, but it'd make her kit more consistent. A spell that is literally designed to set up your ult being too far for your ult is dumb. I'm not whining, I don't care, I don't play Diana much because I prefer other champions, but it's clear they made it a specific design choice to have her q and r have the exact same range so she can follow up on landed Qs. On December 14 2012 23:25 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. On December 14 2012 22:59 Tobberoth wrote:
Hopefully the diana nerfs are strong enough that we don't have to ban her every single draft pick. It's fine to get sad when a hero you've been owning it up with for a while gets nerfed, but please realize it's good for the game when bonker-OP heroes are nerfed. If she has been nerfed so hard that no one will be playing her, she will be buffed again, so there's nothing to whine about. I don't' play but, I think she's one of the more interesting champions that gets played mid in tournaments, and is one of the only champs who plays well against op as heck Orianna. For how tanky she was, she had way too much damage and utility. Was it too much? Possibly, but everyone stop whining until you can actually play her and find out. More likely, she'll still be plenty usable and less faceroll. Zyra got a decent nerf. I currently have an 80% win rate with Zyra mid. Do you see me complaining? No, she needed the nerf. Will I stop playing her? Absolutely not, she is still going to be strong due to the nature of the kit. tl;dr Stop complaining, learn to adapt. I wasn't whining. I was pointing out clunky design. You are rude and follow it up with a strawman argument that has nothing to do with what I'm saying because I don't play Diana, so why should I care if a champ you played got nerfed? I don't think Zyra's E missile speed will affect the way her combos execute (since her seeds are instant place), moreso than just make it more difficult to hit -- similar to the gragas e speed nerf. tl;dr Your post is dumb and rude for no reason. My tl;dr was not pointed at you, it was a general statement. My mistake for not clarifying that. This thread has been rife with complaining the last few days, I just want it to stop. That's fine, but no need to just assume people are complaining about their favorite champ being nerfed when it isn't really stated. Taking my Diana point to an unreasonable extreme -- Imagine if Lux was considered amazingly op, and they nerfed her by making her autoattack range equivalent to a normal Melee champ. Maybe she'd be less op, but clearly her kit is designed to be proccing her passive at a reasonable distance because that's where her spells usually "catch" people -- even though you CAN hit her spells at a closer range and proc them with melee autoattacks. It's not exactly comparable, but I feel like it makes a kit more counter intuitive. I like smooth kits but I understand she was OP so at worst I'm ambivalent about it. Nah bro, Lux is about ulting every 24 seconds for 1000 dmg with Mejais. huehuehueheuehuehueh. I thought she was all about spamming laugh.
Oh, yeah, laugh key remapped for max spammage
QERGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG
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^isn't spamming laugh bannable under the tribunal for some reason
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On December 15 2012 02:20 clickrush wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 02:04 LaNague wrote:On December 15 2012 00:55 Complete wrote:
I have a question:
As a low ELO player (~1300 or something) I often end up playing support and getting an abnormal amount of gold. Lately I've been playing a lot of Sona. If say bottom lane dominates and I'm getting a bunch of kills/assists (yes I know don't ks from adc, but it happens), and I'm getting in to the mid game with as much gold as my opponents laners, how should I be switching up my build (if at all)? Say for Sona (or taric, or any other support I guess) should I still continue building my regular stuff (locket/aegis/shruileyas/etc)? Or should I be building AP? Or what? you should try zyra or lux support if that happens too often. i have seen numerous zyra supports in asian teams that ended up being a 2nd ap carry. sona is pretty fine with some extra gold. And yes build regular support stuff. there are so many really strong support items now. if you get alot of gold you should start to care less about not getting behind in levels and start roaming and warding more often. you will naturally get behind in your gold advantage while you give super extra map control and enhance the farm roles better. with sona it is also common to get some kills now and then during laneing phase in very close fights/ganks. don't try to be something your not. instead of being a shitty 2nd ap start to be a very strong super support who baits, pokes, wards more often. you can for example just go all-in on their carry at the right moment. you and him will have low health after this so you can bluepill, give your carry free farm and tons of exp, while you get more wards and roam the jungle. do stuff like that instead of trying to somehow get to a deathcap. the closest to a ap-carry support i saw in a serious game was a tripple gold morgana getting a zonyas at 45min or so. this was planned and executed by the whole team and only works because of this. as a soloq support you have to keep your head down and do what your teammates base their plays on. this is probably one of the most important things in soloq.
How does roaming sets you behind in gold as a support? If anything you get more gold by roaming because you get more assists/kills.
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On December 15 2012 02:26 101toss wrote:
^isn't spamming laugh bannable under the tribunal for some reason
Only if you keep doing it when people ask you to stop..
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Good news the masteries got fixed.
Butcher now does the 4 bonus damage again.
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Lol I just randomly tuned into hotshots stream and hear doublifts orgasmic scream in the background"OOOOOH GOD I'M THE BEST"
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On December 15 2012 00:58 jcarlsoniv wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 00:33 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 23:28 thenexusp wrote:On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. If they also nerfed the range of her Q to match her ult, would that make her better? It would make her worse, but it'd make her kit more consistent. A spell that is literally designed to set up your ult being too far for your ult is dumb. I'm not whining, I don't care, I don't play Diana much because I prefer other champions, but it's clear they made it a specific design choice to have her q and r have the exact same range so she can follow up on landed Qs. On December 14 2012 23:25 jcarlsoniv wrote:On December 14 2012 23:09 TwoToneTerran wrote:On December 14 2012 22:48 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Um...you know you can shorten Diana's Q to match that of the new ult range.
Yes, but now you can't actually use your ult to follow up your q(atleast in lane where you're usually hitting your q from long ranges) which is literally the core design of the champion. On December 14 2012 22:59 Tobberoth wrote:
Hopefully the diana nerfs are strong enough that we don't have to ban her every single draft pick. It's fine to get sad when a hero you've been owning it up with for a while gets nerfed, but please realize it's good for the game when bonker-OP heroes are nerfed. If she has been nerfed so hard that no one will be playing her, she will be buffed again, so there's nothing to whine about. I don't' play but, I think she's one of the more interesting champions that gets played mid in tournaments, and is one of the only champs who plays well against op as heck Orianna. For how tanky she was, she had way too much damage and utility. Was it too much? Possibly, but everyone stop whining until you can actually play her and find out. More likely, she'll still be plenty usable and less faceroll. Zyra got a decent nerf. I currently have an 80% win rate with Zyra mid. Do you see me complaining? No, she needed the nerf. Will I stop playing her? Absolutely not, she is still going to be strong due to the nature of the kit. tl;dr Stop complaining, learn to adapt. I wasn't whining. I was pointing out clunky design. You are rude and follow it up with a strawman argument that has nothing to do with what I'm saying because I don't play Diana, so why should I care if a champ you played got nerfed? I don't think Zyra's E missile speed will affect the way her combos execute (since her seeds are instant place), moreso than just make it more difficult to hit -- similar to the gragas e speed nerf. tl;dr Your post is dumb and rude for no reason. My tl;dr was not pointed at you, it was a general statement. My mistake for not clarifying that. This thread has been rife with complaining the last few days, I just want it to stop.
This thread was up for not even a day when you made this post. I believe you are letting external complain sources influence you.
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EPT
