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On December 14 2012 06:25 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 06:13 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 06:12 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 14 2012 05:41 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 05:31 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 14 2012 04:54 PrinceXizor wrote:
welll.. karmas rework is changing the way she functions. like her spells and everything, trundle is a visual upgrade and probably the most requested visual upgrade. a large portion of the community refuses to play him solely based on his appearance.
also spirit stone is better than philo for supports. and i highly encourage supports buy spirit stone over philo early on. I see people talking about wanting new skins for him all of the time, not that he needed a complete visual overhaul. Are there really that many people that won't play a champ just because of the way they look? Mechanics > visuals. After the rework I'm sure his played games will increase for a couple days, and fall back to the same levels almost immediately. teemo is the most played character in the game because he's cute. 80% of the player base is pretty damn casual. i know i'd love to play trundle but his animations make him too annoying and buggy, which is reasonable, but i constantly heard people saying WOW trundle? but he's so ugly. In a competitive game I find that silly. It's like saying I'm not going to use the M16 in CoD just because I don't like the way it sounds. Meh, to each you own I suppose (well, the players who think this way anyway.) 1-2% of the LoL playing population watches major tournaments. You just pulled that number out of your ass. I remember IPL4 had 3 million unique viewers and that's probably higher for IPL5 (but the numbers weren't released yet) so it's much larger percentage.
was using the 500k viewers from most recent major.
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Czech Republic11293 Posts
Amumu, Skarner, Nunu, Mundo, Nocturne, Shen, Udyr, Olaf, Lee Sin, Cho'Gath and Xin Zhao (dunno about the last 2 after the patch, but if I am not mistaken they are all alright) are all imo stronger junglers than Trundle in general, you could also make a case for Sejuani, Shyvana and Maokai (dunno in the new patch either). Possibly for Hecarim and Jarvan too. I don't think Trundle is anywhere near top10 junglers, his clear time isn't fast enough and his midgame and lategame power is not really better than any of the champions mentioned above.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 14 2012 06:23 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 06:21 onlywonderboy wrote:
All I meant by competitive is the goal of the game is to beat the enemy team, not the level of competition that occurs.Even if you are playing casually the goal of the game is to still win. If someone wants to avoid ugly characters that's their prerogative, I just don't agree that's a reason worthy of not playing a champ. I would argue there are plenty of other reasons not to play Trundle haha. i mean trundle isn't a god mode character and people refuse to play because he's ugly. he's in the top 10 junglers for sure though, but low enough that preference matters.
I really wonder if it's going to be that drastic of a change. I mean he's a troll, how not ugly can you make him look? I would have the same reaction if someone tried to tell me they were going to make Urgot less ugly. Change the character too much and it's just not the same.
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any thoughts on nami up until now?
was pretty excited to play her before i realized that i was excited to play all the supports because of the changes.
my support starts have been massively situational since the s3 patch. i've gone games where i rush sightstone and go to lane with nothing but biscuit and ghost ward if i think lane will be okay at level 2. i've done faerie charm and wards, flask and wards... even had one with a sivir where i went mana manipulator and wards (i think we also had an effective diving bruiser, so i thought to get mana manipulator for sivir and then build to ice shard for the bruiser). sometimes i even go faerie charm / sight / chalice, so i can get mikael's early.
i'm wondering if nami works better with chalice, because i keep running out of mana in lane. spamming W (ebb and flow) seems like it'd be really annoying because it's sustain and poke at the same time.
for skill builds I've been starting Q and then R > W > Q > E. i like lina in dota so landing the stun is kind of like a point of pride. i played a game where i ignored skilling E and that seemed to work out okay but i suppose it's situational.
tidal wave has been one of the most solid follow up initiates and counter initiates. by itself as the primary initiate it seems underwhelming and slow, but combined with something like an ashe arrow, a malphite ult, twin shadows, then following up with your bubble... it can devastate a team.
aside from her ult, she does seem underwhelming in mid/late team fights. you can probably get away with one bubble, ebb and flow doesn't heal nearly enough or do enough damage, and her enchant doesn't really affect a teamfight that much. great for chasing and such, but not that effective in a straight up brawl.
most of my nami games were nami mirrors so i don't know particularly know how well she matches up against other supports in lane. i can imagine her doing well against blitz/leona if you can hit your stun. i'd give janna/soraka a slight edge. i'd favor nami over sona. taric seems pretty even, as does lulu.
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On December 14 2012 06:31 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 06:23 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 06:21 onlywonderboy wrote:
All I meant by competitive is the goal of the game is to beat the enemy team, not the level of competition that occurs.Even if you are playing casually the goal of the game is to still win. If someone wants to avoid ugly characters that's their prerogative, I just don't agree that's a reason worthy of not playing a champ. I would argue there are plenty of other reasons not to play Trundle haha. i mean trundle isn't a god mode character and people refuse to play because he's ugly. he's in the top 10 junglers for sure though, but low enough that preference matters. I really wonder if it's going to be that drastic of a change. I mean he's a troll, how not ugly can you make him look? I would have the same reaction if someone tried to tell me they were going to make Urgot less ugly. Change the character too much and it's just not the same.
you can go from ugly and comical to scary looking.
Compare heimer to rumble, one is funny looking and goofy the other looks impressive.
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On December 14 2012 01:13 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 13 2012 16:06 Simberto wrote:On December 13 2012 09:00 obesechicken13 wrote:On December 13 2012 08:32 Ketara wrote:On December 13 2012 08:12 101toss wrote:On December 13 2012 07:53 Ketara wrote:
Just because it's often not doing full damage, doesn't mean it's not doing damage. The thing has 70 AP on it, and magic pen, and HP. What item are you comparing it to? Haunting guise. 200hp? Check 15mpen? Check 25ap? Not enough here, but toss on a blasting wand (only 860g) and you've got around the same ap. That means you get 600g to spend on another item that does more damage (plus that bwand actually builds into core items for all casters). People confuse teemo shrooms retarded base damage with liandry's damage and it's making me sad  You are completely ignoring me. Here's some math for you. I'm playing Teemo. I got a Deathcap and a Void Staff. I've also got boots and a sightstone and a haunting guise. I'm having a pretty good day. Lets say I'm a fairly standard AP build and I'm level 18. I've got 333.502 AP with all this stuff. Neat. My mushrooms are doing 866.8016 damage. Also neat. I've got room in my inventory for one more major item. I want something that is going to give me the most damage possible on my mushrooms for the least gold possible. What do I get? I could get a Deathfire Grasp for 3000 gold. That gives 130 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 104 damage on my mushrooms. I could get a Zhonyas Hourglass for 3100 gold. That gives 130 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 104 damage on my mushrooms. Or I could get a Liandry's Lament for 1415 gold. That only gives 58.5 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 46.8 damage on my mushrooms. But it has that passive and slows, so would do 5% current HP damage to the target over 1.5 seconds. How much current HP would the target have to have for 5% of it to be the 45.5 necessary to make that proc do as much damage as a Deathfire Grasp? Only 910 HP. At level 18 how many champions will have more than 910 HP after being hit by the mushroom? Damn near everybody. And it only cost 1415 gold instead of 3000! And I still have an item slot left! In fact, instead of paying 3000 gold for a Deathfire Grasp I could get Liandry's Lament and a Needlessly Large Rod. Then I'm certainly doing more damage than I would be if I'd gotten that Deathfire Grasp! Edit: Oh but wait, Liandry's and Teemo mushrooms don't work well together! Each second you take damage and that reapplies the effect and causes Liandry's to miss a tick of damage! So the last tick of shroom damage will make Liandry's do 5% current health damage, and the first few ticks will make Liandry's do... More than nothing. So instead of taking 5% HP damage from Liandry's, you're taking some amount MORE than 5%. Totally crappy with mushrooms. I'm actually curious if Liandry gets ticks off when Teemo's poison is active, and if so, how many ticks on average. I can neither discount nor prove the 13% stated above. I think the argument it doesn't work well with Teemo is half from when someone hits a mushroom and then you autoattack them, because then for a long time Liandry's might not be hurting them at all because it keeps getting refreshed by Teemo's poison. Here's some data on Liandry's - AoE and DoT based spells halve the number of ticks rather than the duration. It may seem like a technicality, but a simple halved duration (re wording of the tooltip) would imply the full 5% over 1.5 seconds; instead, it's halved to 2.5% over 1.5 seconds. http://www.reignofgaming.net/forums/strategy/champions-and-gameplay/29479-item-mechanics-liandrys-tormenthttp://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Liandry's_TormentSo Teemo will theoretically only get 5% from one Liandry's proc. Also: - The damage is dealt over 6 ticks at 0.5 second intervals, with the initial tick being on contact and hidden by the spell itself. So Liandry's will proc at least one time. But depending on the dot frequency of Teemo's poison, it may not proc again until after Teemo's poison wears off, which would mean it gets half efficiency. I'm tired. Baylife. I realize i am a bit late to this, but we now have two contradicting versions of how liandrys works here on this forum. Either it applies on the first hit, but is hidden by the spell that procs it on display, or the first tick gets munched. I'd really like to know which is true. It would be pretty easy to test this by building liandrys on someone with a dot, and only hp on someone else, and then calculate how much damage it should do, i assume, but sadly i don't have anyone around who would do that with me at the moment. I'll probably try it out in a custom bot game against blue golem some time. You don't need a high hp target to do the necessary calculations if you use no runes or masteries.
I just did that, and i am pretty sure that some ticks vanish. I tried it 3 times on the blue golem at about 9 minutes with only liandrys, no relevant masteries or runes, using lvl 1 teemo shrooms, and each time it reduced the golem from 2152 to 1720 live. The shroom itself does 200 + 56 damage, meaning that 176 damage comes from the liandry effect.
Assuming no ticks would vanish, that would mean we have 8 tick with double-damage during the time the shroom ticks down, and 3 ticks with normal damage afterwards, leading to an average normal tick of 9.3. Each normal tick should be 5/6% of current hp, or 0.83%. This would give us current HP of 1112 for the average tick. But the blue golem is never below 1720 hp, meaning that this can absolutely NOT be how it works.
If we assume that 4 double damage ticks vanish, we now have 4 double ticks and 3 normal ticks, giving us an average normal tick of 16, which relates to a current hp of 1920. This theory is thus far more plausible. After calculating it tick by tick with the assumption of 4 double ticks and 3 normal ticks, i actually reached exactly 1720 as a final result (well, 1722, but i was lazy and rounded everything to full numbers at every step, so minor rounding errors are to be expected)
Thus, it appears that liandrys does indeed lose ticks if it gets reapplied during its duration. Apparently it only procs after half a second, not immediately on application, making it less good for dot-users then expected.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 14 2012 06:36 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 06:31 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 14 2012 06:23 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 06:21 onlywonderboy wrote:
All I meant by competitive is the goal of the game is to beat the enemy team, not the level of competition that occurs.Even if you are playing casually the goal of the game is to still win. If someone wants to avoid ugly characters that's their prerogative, I just don't agree that's a reason worthy of not playing a champ. I would argue there are plenty of other reasons not to play Trundle haha. i mean trundle isn't a god mode character and people refuse to play because he's ugly. he's in the top 10 junglers for sure though, but low enough that preference matters. I really wonder if it's going to be that drastic of a change. I mean he's a troll, how not ugly can you make him look? I would have the same reaction if someone tried to tell me they were going to make Urgot less ugly. Change the character too much and it's just not the same. you can go from ugly and comical to scary looking. Compare heimer to rumble, one is funny looking and goofy the other looks impressive.
I would have assumed the same people that dislike ugly champs would probably also be apprehensive to play scary champs. But fuck, I'd be down for a dark scary Trundle.
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The fact that Nami's harass and sustain are both the same spell makes her very strong. The only thing that stops it from being overpowered is the positioning requirement, which really isn't that big of a deal. She's definitely a lot strong early than late, but she's still respectable given that she has two hard CCs.
Also, he E works with Twitch ult but only consumes one charge per auto.
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On December 14 2012 06:41 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 06:36 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 06:31 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 14 2012 06:23 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 06:21 onlywonderboy wrote:
All I meant by competitive is the goal of the game is to beat the enemy team, not the level of competition that occurs.Even if you are playing casually the goal of the game is to still win. If someone wants to avoid ugly characters that's their prerogative, I just don't agree that's a reason worthy of not playing a champ. I would argue there are plenty of other reasons not to play Trundle haha. i mean trundle isn't a god mode character and people refuse to play because he's ugly. he's in the top 10 junglers for sure though, but low enough that preference matters. I really wonder if it's going to be that drastic of a change. I mean he's a troll, how not ugly can you make him look? I would have the same reaction if someone tried to tell me they were going to make Urgot less ugly. Change the character too much and it's just not the same. you can go from ugly and comical to scary looking. Compare heimer to rumble, one is funny looking and goofy the other looks impressive. I would have assumed the same people that dislike ugly champs would probably also be apprehensive to play scary champs. But fuck, I'd be down for a dark scary Trundle.
Have you guys read Trundle's lore?
"Through the shaman's ritual, Trundle became a horrifying creature whose flesh constantly sloughs off his body, only to be re-grown in an unremitting cycle."
He's a mass of perpetually rotting flesh. Not sure why people expect him to be pretty
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On December 14 2012 06:38 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 01:13 obesechicken13 wrote:On December 13 2012 16:06 Simberto wrote:On December 13 2012 09:00 obesechicken13 wrote:On December 13 2012 08:32 Ketara wrote:On December 13 2012 08:12 101toss wrote:On December 13 2012 07:53 Ketara wrote:
Just because it's often not doing full damage, doesn't mean it's not doing damage. The thing has 70 AP on it, and magic pen, and HP. What item are you comparing it to? Haunting guise. 200hp? Check 15mpen? Check 25ap? Not enough here, but toss on a blasting wand (only 860g) and you've got around the same ap. That means you get 600g to spend on another item that does more damage (plus that bwand actually builds into core items for all casters). People confuse teemo shrooms retarded base damage with liandry's damage and it's making me sad You are completely ignoring me. Here's some math for you. I'm playing Teemo. I got a Deathcap and a Void Staff. I've also got boots and a sightstone and a haunting guise. I'm having a pretty good day. Lets say I'm a fairly standard AP build and I'm level 18. I've got 333.502 AP with all this stuff. Neat. My mushrooms are doing 866.8016 damage. Also neat. I've got room in my inventory for one more major item. I want something that is going to give me the most damage possible on my mushrooms for the least gold possible. What do I get? I could get a Deathfire Grasp for 3000 gold. That gives 130 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 104 damage on my mushrooms. I could get a Zhonyas Hourglass for 3100 gold. That gives 130 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 104 damage on my mushrooms. Or I could get a Liandry's Lament for 1415 gold. That only gives 58.5 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 46.8 damage on my mushrooms. But it has that passive and slows, so would do 5% current HP damage to the target over 1.5 seconds. How much current HP would the target have to have for 5% of it to be the 45.5 necessary to make that proc do as much damage as a Deathfire Grasp? Only 910 HP. At level 18 how many champions will have more than 910 HP after being hit by the mushroom? Damn near everybody. And it only cost 1415 gold instead of 3000! And I still have an item slot left! In fact, instead of paying 3000 gold for a Deathfire Grasp I could get Liandry's Lament and a Needlessly Large Rod. Then I'm certainly doing more damage than I would be if I'd gotten that Deathfire Grasp! Edit: Oh but wait, Liandry's and Teemo mushrooms don't work well together! Each second you take damage and that reapplies the effect and causes Liandry's to miss a tick of damage! So the last tick of shroom damage will make Liandry's do 5% current health damage, and the first few ticks will make Liandry's do... More than nothing. So instead of taking 5% HP damage from Liandry's, you're taking some amount MORE than 5%. Totally crappy with mushrooms. I'm actually curious if Liandry gets ticks off when Teemo's poison is active, and if so, how many ticks on average. I can neither discount nor prove the 13% stated above. I think the argument it doesn't work well with Teemo is half from when someone hits a mushroom and then you autoattack them, because then for a long time Liandry's might not be hurting them at all because it keeps getting refreshed by Teemo's poison. Here's some data on Liandry's - AoE and DoT based spells halve the number of ticks rather than the duration. It may seem like a technicality, but a simple halved duration (re wording of the tooltip) would imply the full 5% over 1.5 seconds; instead, it's halved to 2.5% over 1.5 seconds. http://www.reignofgaming.net/forums/strategy/champions-and-gameplay/29479-item-mechanics-liandrys-tormenthttp://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Liandry's_TormentSo Teemo will theoretically only get 5% from one Liandry's proc. Also: - The damage is dealt over 6 ticks at 0.5 second intervals, with the initial tick being on contact and hidden by the spell itself. So Liandry's will proc at least one time. But depending on the dot frequency of Teemo's poison, it may not proc again until after Teemo's poison wears off, which would mean it gets half efficiency. I'm tired. Baylife. I realize i am a bit late to this, but we now have two contradicting versions of how liandrys works here on this forum. Either it applies on the first hit, but is hidden by the spell that procs it on display, or the first tick gets munched. I'd really like to know which is true. It would be pretty easy to test this by building liandrys on someone with a dot, and only hp on someone else, and then calculate how much damage it should do, i assume, but sadly i don't have anyone around who would do that with me at the moment. I'll probably try it out in a custom bot game against blue golem some time. You don't need a high hp target to do the necessary calculations if you use no runes or masteries. I just did that, and i am pretty sure that some ticks vanish. I tried it 3 times on the blue golem at about 9 minutes with only liandrys, no relevant masteries or runes, using lvl 1 teemo shrooms, and each time it reduced the golem from 2152 to 1720 live. The shroom itself does 200 + 56 damage, meaning that 176 damage comes from the liandry effect. Assuming no ticks would vanish, that would mean we have 8 tick with double-damage during the time the shroom ticks down, and 3 ticks with normal damage afterwards, leading to an average normal tick of 9.3. Each normal tick should be 5/6% of current hp, or 0.83%. This would give us current HP of 1112 for the average tick. But the blue golem is never below 1720 hp, meaning that this can absolutely NOT be how it works. If we assume that 4 double damage ticks vanish, we now have 4 double ticks and 3 normal ticks, giving us an average normal tick of 16, which relates to a current hp of 1920. This theory is thus far more plausible. After calculating it tick by tick with the assumption of 4 double ticks and 3 normal ticks, i actually reached exactly 1720 as a final result (well, 1722, but i was lazy and rounded everything to full numbers at every step, so minor rounding errors are to be expected) Thus, it appears that liandrys does indeed lose ticks if it gets reapplied during its duration. Apparently it only procs after half a second, not immediately on application, making it less good for dot-users then expected.
Not to dissuade you from such research in the future, but you could have saved yourself some time by searching this thread. I've already posted about this at least twice, and in my blog just the other day.
Still, it's nice to see someone else confirm my findings.
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On December 14 2012 06:45 Thetan wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 06:41 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 14 2012 06:36 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 06:31 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 14 2012 06:23 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 06:21 onlywonderboy wrote:
All I meant by competitive is the goal of the game is to beat the enemy team, not the level of competition that occurs.Even if you are playing casually the goal of the game is to still win. If someone wants to avoid ugly characters that's their prerogative, I just don't agree that's a reason worthy of not playing a champ. I would argue there are plenty of other reasons not to play Trundle haha. i mean trundle isn't a god mode character and people refuse to play because he's ugly. he's in the top 10 junglers for sure though, but low enough that preference matters. I really wonder if it's going to be that drastic of a change. I mean he's a troll, how not ugly can you make him look? I would have the same reaction if someone tried to tell me they were going to make Urgot less ugly. Change the character too much and it's just not the same. you can go from ugly and comical to scary looking. Compare heimer to rumble, one is funny looking and goofy the other looks impressive. I would have assumed the same people that dislike ugly champs would probably also be apprehensive to play scary champs. But fuck, I'd be down for a dark scary Trundle. Have you guys read Trundle's lore?
"Through the shaman's ritual, Trundle became a horrifying creature whose flesh constantly sloughs off his body, only to be re-grown in an unremitting cycle."He's a mass of perpetually rotting flesh. Not sure why people expect him to be pretty
He looks like a child tried to make a troll doll from the 80's out of clay. thats how he looks right now. not scary. not horrifying, he just looks silly and ugly.
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On December 14 2012 06:33 kainzero wrote:
any thoughts on nami up until now?
was pretty excited to play her before i realized that i was excited to play all the supports because of the changes.
my support starts have been massively situational since the s3 patch. i've gone games where i rush sightstone and go to lane with nothing but biscuit and ghost ward if i think lane will be okay at level 2. i've done faerie charm and wards, flask and wards... even had one with a sivir where i went mana manipulator and wards (i think we also had an effective diving bruiser, so i thought to get mana manipulator for sivir and then build to ice shard for the bruiser). sometimes i even go faerie charm / sight / chalice, so i can get mikael's early.
i'm wondering if nami works better with chalice, because i keep running out of mana in lane. spamming W (ebb and flow) seems like it'd be really annoying because it's sustain and poke at the same time.
for skill builds I've been starting Q and then R > W > Q > E. i like lina in dota so landing the stun is kind of like a point of pride. i played a game where i ignored skilling E and that seemed to work out okay but i suppose it's situational.
tidal wave has been one of the most solid follow up initiates and counter initiates. by itself as the primary initiate it seems underwhelming and slow, but combined with something like an ashe arrow, a malphite ult, twin shadows, then following up with your bubble... it can devastate a team.
aside from her ult, she does seem underwhelming in mid/late team fights. you can probably get away with one bubble, ebb and flow doesn't heal nearly enough or do enough damage, and her enchant doesn't really affect a teamfight that much. great for chasing and such, but not that effective in a straight up brawl.
most of my nami games were nami mirrors so i don't know particularly know how well she matches up against other supports in lane. i can imagine her doing well against blitz/leona if you can hit your stun. i'd give janna/soraka a slight edge. i'd favor nami over sona. taric seems pretty even, as does lulu.
I think Nami can be really strong, but most ADC do not know how to play with her. She requires a lot of collabourative effort to play well in lane.
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On December 14 2012 06:46 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 06:38 Simberto wrote:On December 14 2012 01:13 obesechicken13 wrote:On December 13 2012 16:06 Simberto wrote:On December 13 2012 09:00 obesechicken13 wrote:On December 13 2012 08:32 Ketara wrote:On December 13 2012 08:12 101toss wrote:On December 13 2012 07:53 Ketara wrote:
Just because it's often not doing full damage, doesn't mean it's not doing damage. The thing has 70 AP on it, and magic pen, and HP. What item are you comparing it to? Haunting guise. 200hp? Check 15mpen? Check 25ap? Not enough here, but toss on a blasting wand (only 860g) and you've got around the same ap. That means you get 600g to spend on another item that does more damage (plus that bwand actually builds into core items for all casters). People confuse teemo shrooms retarded base damage with liandry's damage and it's making me sad You are completely ignoring me. Here's some math for you. I'm playing Teemo. I got a Deathcap and a Void Staff. I've also got boots and a sightstone and a haunting guise. I'm having a pretty good day. Lets say I'm a fairly standard AP build and I'm level 18. I've got 333.502 AP with all this stuff. Neat. My mushrooms are doing 866.8016 damage. Also neat. I've got room in my inventory for one more major item. I want something that is going to give me the most damage possible on my mushrooms for the least gold possible. What do I get? I could get a Deathfire Grasp for 3000 gold. That gives 130 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 104 damage on my mushrooms. I could get a Zhonyas Hourglass for 3100 gold. That gives 130 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 104 damage on my mushrooms. Or I could get a Liandry's Lament for 1415 gold. That only gives 58.5 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 46.8 damage on my mushrooms. But it has that passive and slows, so would do 5% current HP damage to the target over 1.5 seconds. How much current HP would the target have to have for 5% of it to be the 45.5 necessary to make that proc do as much damage as a Deathfire Grasp? Only 910 HP. At level 18 how many champions will have more than 910 HP after being hit by the mushroom? Damn near everybody. And it only cost 1415 gold instead of 3000! And I still have an item slot left! In fact, instead of paying 3000 gold for a Deathfire Grasp I could get Liandry's Lament and a Needlessly Large Rod. Then I'm certainly doing more damage than I would be if I'd gotten that Deathfire Grasp! Edit: Oh but wait, Liandry's and Teemo mushrooms don't work well together! Each second you take damage and that reapplies the effect and causes Liandry's to miss a tick of damage! So the last tick of shroom damage will make Liandry's do 5% current health damage, and the first few ticks will make Liandry's do... More than nothing. So instead of taking 5% HP damage from Liandry's, you're taking some amount MORE than 5%. Totally crappy with mushrooms. I'm actually curious if Liandry gets ticks off when Teemo's poison is active, and if so, how many ticks on average. I can neither discount nor prove the 13% stated above. I think the argument it doesn't work well with Teemo is half from when someone hits a mushroom and then you autoattack them, because then for a long time Liandry's might not be hurting them at all because it keeps getting refreshed by Teemo's poison. Here's some data on Liandry's - AoE and DoT based spells halve the number of ticks rather than the duration. It may seem like a technicality, but a simple halved duration (re wording of the tooltip) would imply the full 5% over 1.5 seconds; instead, it's halved to 2.5% over 1.5 seconds. http://www.reignofgaming.net/forums/strategy/champions-and-gameplay/29479-item-mechanics-liandrys-tormenthttp://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Liandry's_TormentSo Teemo will theoretically only get 5% from one Liandry's proc. Also: - The damage is dealt over 6 ticks at 0.5 second intervals, with the initial tick being on contact and hidden by the spell itself. So Liandry's will proc at least one time. But depending on the dot frequency of Teemo's poison, it may not proc again until after Teemo's poison wears off, which would mean it gets half efficiency. I'm tired. Baylife. I realize i am a bit late to this, but we now have two contradicting versions of how liandrys works here on this forum. Either it applies on the first hit, but is hidden by the spell that procs it on display, or the first tick gets munched. I'd really like to know which is true. It would be pretty easy to test this by building liandrys on someone with a dot, and only hp on someone else, and then calculate how much damage it should do, i assume, but sadly i don't have anyone around who would do that with me at the moment. I'll probably try it out in a custom bot game against blue golem some time. You don't need a high hp target to do the necessary calculations if you use no runes or masteries. I just did that, and i am pretty sure that some ticks vanish. I tried it 3 times on the blue golem at about 9 minutes with only liandrys, no relevant masteries or runes, using lvl 1 teemo shrooms, and each time it reduced the golem from 2152 to 1720 live. The shroom itself does 200 + 56 damage, meaning that 176 damage comes from the liandry effect. Assuming no ticks would vanish, that would mean we have 8 tick with double-damage during the time the shroom ticks down, and 3 ticks with normal damage afterwards, leading to an average normal tick of 9.3. Each normal tick should be 5/6% of current hp, or 0.83%. This would give us current HP of 1112 for the average tick. But the blue golem is never below 1720 hp, meaning that this can absolutely NOT be how it works. If we assume that 4 double damage ticks vanish, we now have 4 double ticks and 3 normal ticks, giving us an average normal tick of 16, which relates to a current hp of 1920. This theory is thus far more plausible. After calculating it tick by tick with the assumption of 4 double ticks and 3 normal ticks, i actually reached exactly 1720 as a final result (well, 1722, but i was lazy and rounded everything to full numbers at every step, so minor rounding errors are to be expected) Thus, it appears that liandrys does indeed lose ticks if it gets reapplied during its duration. Apparently it only procs after half a second, not immediately on application, making it less good for dot-users then expected. Not to dissuade you from such research in the future, but you could have saved yourself some time by searching this thread. I've already posted about this at least twice, and in my blog just the other day. Still, it's nice to see someone else confirm my findings.
Well, and someone else posted a credible source that the first tick is just not displayed, but does occur instantly. Before that, i believed you, but after that, i was not sure anymore, so i tested it to be certain. Now i am sure again. The problem is that there are a lot of people on the internet who say a lot of things, and apparently not everyone does his testing correctly, which does not dissuade them from posting it, thus one has to check for oneself to be certain.
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My friend's just invited me to a ranked 5s for luls over the holiday. I get to be mid since my favorite roles of support and jungle are already taken by people that can't play any other positions confidently. Mid isn't my worst lane but its been a while and I have yet to play at since several weeks before the pre season patch. I think my last games in mid were taking zombie brand for a spin when the skin was released. Anyway I'm looking for quick pointers on mid lane, who's I should learn to play and play against ect. Currently I feel best about playing ryze and orianna not sure how strong they are though.
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On December 14 2012 06:52 Azerbaijan wrote:
My friend's just invited me to a ranked 5s for luls over the holiday. I get to be mid since my favorite roles of support and jungle are already taken by people that can't play any other positions confidently. Mid isn't my worst lane but its been a while and I have yet to play at since several weeks before the pre season patch. I think my last games in mid were taking zombie brand for a spin when the skin was released. Anyway I'm looking for quick pointers on mid lane, who's I should learn to play and play against ect. Currently I feel best about playing ryze and orianna not sure how strong they are though.
They are very strong.
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On December 14 2012 06:48 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 06:45 Thetan wrote:On December 14 2012 06:41 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 14 2012 06:36 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 06:31 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 14 2012 06:23 PrinceXizor wrote:On December 14 2012 06:21 onlywonderboy wrote:
All I meant by competitive is the goal of the game is to beat the enemy team, not the level of competition that occurs.Even if you are playing casually the goal of the game is to still win. If someone wants to avoid ugly characters that's their prerogative, I just don't agree that's a reason worthy of not playing a champ. I would argue there are plenty of other reasons not to play Trundle haha. i mean trundle isn't a god mode character and people refuse to play because he's ugly. he's in the top 10 junglers for sure though, but low enough that preference matters. I really wonder if it's going to be that drastic of a change. I mean he's a troll, how not ugly can you make him look? I would have the same reaction if someone tried to tell me they were going to make Urgot less ugly. Change the character too much and it's just not the same. you can go from ugly and comical to scary looking. Compare heimer to rumble, one is funny looking and goofy the other looks impressive. I would have assumed the same people that dislike ugly champs would probably also be apprehensive to play scary champs. But fuck, I'd be down for a dark scary Trundle. Have you guys read Trundle's lore?
"Through the shaman's ritual, Trundle became a horrifying creature whose flesh constantly sloughs off his body, only to be re-grown in an unremitting cycle."He's a mass of perpetually rotting flesh. Not sure why people expect him to be pretty He looks like a child tried to make a troll doll from the 80's out of clay. thats how he looks right now. not scary. not horrifying, he just looks silly and ugly.
And Cho'gath isn't a madness inducing visage of horror. I think Trundle looks awesome the way he is.
On December 14 2012 06:50 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2012 06:46 Seuss wrote:On December 14 2012 06:38 Simberto wrote:On December 14 2012 01:13 obesechicken13 wrote:On December 13 2012 16:06 Simberto wrote:On December 13 2012 09:00 obesechicken13 wrote:On December 13 2012 08:32 Ketara wrote:On December 13 2012 08:12 101toss wrote:On December 13 2012 07:53 Ketara wrote:
Just because it's often not doing full damage, doesn't mean it's not doing damage. The thing has 70 AP on it, and magic pen, and HP. What item are you comparing it to? Haunting guise. 200hp? Check 15mpen? Check 25ap? Not enough here, but toss on a blasting wand (only 860g) and you've got around the same ap. That means you get 600g to spend on another item that does more damage (plus that bwand actually builds into core items for all casters). People confuse teemo shrooms retarded base damage with liandry's damage and it's making me sad You are completely ignoring me. Here's some math for you. I'm playing Teemo. I got a Deathcap and a Void Staff. I've also got boots and a sightstone and a haunting guise. I'm having a pretty good day. Lets say I'm a fairly standard AP build and I'm level 18. I've got 333.502 AP with all this stuff. Neat. My mushrooms are doing 866.8016 damage. Also neat. I've got room in my inventory for one more major item. I want something that is going to give me the most damage possible on my mushrooms for the least gold possible. What do I get? I could get a Deathfire Grasp for 3000 gold. That gives 130 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 104 damage on my mushrooms. I could get a Zhonyas Hourglass for 3100 gold. That gives 130 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 104 damage on my mushrooms. Or I could get a Liandry's Lament for 1415 gold. That only gives 58.5 AP with deathcap/masteries, which would be another 46.8 damage on my mushrooms. But it has that passive and slows, so would do 5% current HP damage to the target over 1.5 seconds. How much current HP would the target have to have for 5% of it to be the 45.5 necessary to make that proc do as much damage as a Deathfire Grasp? Only 910 HP. At level 18 how many champions will have more than 910 HP after being hit by the mushroom? Damn near everybody. And it only cost 1415 gold instead of 3000! And I still have an item slot left! In fact, instead of paying 3000 gold for a Deathfire Grasp I could get Liandry's Lament and a Needlessly Large Rod. Then I'm certainly doing more damage than I would be if I'd gotten that Deathfire Grasp! Edit: Oh but wait, Liandry's and Teemo mushrooms don't work well together! Each second you take damage and that reapplies the effect and causes Liandry's to miss a tick of damage! So the last tick of shroom damage will make Liandry's do 5% current health damage, and the first few ticks will make Liandry's do... More than nothing. So instead of taking 5% HP damage from Liandry's, you're taking some amount MORE than 5%. Totally crappy with mushrooms. I'm actually curious if Liandry gets ticks off when Teemo's poison is active, and if so, how many ticks on average. I can neither discount nor prove the 13% stated above. I think the argument it doesn't work well with Teemo is half from when someone hits a mushroom and then you autoattack them, because then for a long time Liandry's might not be hurting them at all because it keeps getting refreshed by Teemo's poison. Here's some data on Liandry's - AoE and DoT based spells halve the number of ticks rather than the duration. It may seem like a technicality, but a simple halved duration (re wording of the tooltip) would imply the full 5% over 1.5 seconds; instead, it's halved to 2.5% over 1.5 seconds. http://www.reignofgaming.net/forums/strategy/champions-and-gameplay/29479-item-mechanics-liandrys-tormenthttp://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Liandry's_TormentSo Teemo will theoretically only get 5% from one Liandry's proc. Also: - The damage is dealt over 6 ticks at 0.5 second intervals, with the initial tick being on contact and hidden by the spell itself. So Liandry's will proc at least one time. But depending on the dot frequency of Teemo's poison, it may not proc again until after Teemo's poison wears off, which would mean it gets half efficiency. I'm tired. Baylife. I realize i am a bit late to this, but we now have two contradicting versions of how liandrys works here on this forum. Either it applies on the first hit, but is hidden by the spell that procs it on display, or the first tick gets munched. I'd really like to know which is true. It would be pretty easy to test this by building liandrys on someone with a dot, and only hp on someone else, and then calculate how much damage it should do, i assume, but sadly i don't have anyone around who would do that with me at the moment. I'll probably try it out in a custom bot game against blue golem some time. You don't need a high hp target to do the necessary calculations if you use no runes or masteries. I just did that, and i am pretty sure that some ticks vanish. I tried it 3 times on the blue golem at about 9 minutes with only liandrys, no relevant masteries or runes, using lvl 1 teemo shrooms, and each time it reduced the golem from 2152 to 1720 live. The shroom itself does 200 + 56 damage, meaning that 176 damage comes from the liandry effect. Assuming no ticks would vanish, that would mean we have 8 tick with double-damage during the time the shroom ticks down, and 3 ticks with normal damage afterwards, leading to an average normal tick of 9.3. Each normal tick should be 5/6% of current hp, or 0.83%. This would give us current HP of 1112 for the average tick. But the blue golem is never below 1720 hp, meaning that this can absolutely NOT be how it works. If we assume that 4 double damage ticks vanish, we now have 4 double ticks and 3 normal ticks, giving us an average normal tick of 16, which relates to a current hp of 1920. This theory is thus far more plausible. After calculating it tick by tick with the assumption of 4 double ticks and 3 normal ticks, i actually reached exactly 1720 as a final result (well, 1722, but i was lazy and rounded everything to full numbers at every step, so minor rounding errors are to be expected) Thus, it appears that liandrys does indeed lose ticks if it gets reapplied during its duration. Apparently it only procs after half a second, not immediately on application, making it less good for dot-users then expected. Not to dissuade you from such research in the future, but you could have saved yourself some time by searching this thread. I've already posted about this at least twice, and in my blog just the other day. Still, it's nice to see someone else confirm my findings. Well, and someone else posted a credible source that the first tick is just not displayed, but does occur instantly. Before that, i believed you, but after that, i was not sure anymore, so i tested it to be certain. Now i am sure again. The problem is that there are a lot of people on the internet who say a lot of things, and apparently not everyone does his testing correctly, which does not dissuade them from posting it, thus one has to check for oneself to be certain.
I find your lack of faith disturbing.
It's all good. Scientists peer review for a reason.
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On December 14 2012 06:31 Scip wrote:
Amumu, Skarner, Nunu, Mundo, Nocturne, Shen, Udyr, Olaf, Lee Sin, Cho'Gath and Xin Zhao (dunno about the last 2 after the patch, but if I am not mistaken they are all alright) are all imo stronger junglers than Trundle in general, you could also make a case for Sejuani, Shyvana and Maokai (dunno in the new patch either). Possibly for Hecarim and Jarvan too. I don't think Trundle is anywhere near top10 junglers, his clear time isn't fast enough and his midgame and lategame power is not really better than any of the champions mentioned above.
Also forgot Shen, Rengar, Diana and GP.
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monte is smart guy, i 100% trust
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So ESG got picked up by SKT, pretty exciting!
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United States23745 Posts
Seeing as BW was a little bit before my time, why was SKT1 so awesome?
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EPT
