• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:51
CEST 03:51
KST 10:51
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt1: Fresh Flow9[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0
Community News
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers13Maestros of the Game 2 announced62026 GSL Tour plans announced14Weekly Cups (April 6-12): herO doubles, "Villains" prevail1MaNa leaves Team Liquid24
StarCraft 2
General
Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists Maestros of the Game 2 announced MaNa leaves Team Liquid 2026 GSL Tour plans announced Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool
Tourneys
2026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2)
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
Mutation # 522 Flip My Base The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 521 Memorable Boss Mutation # 520 Moving Fees
Brood War
General
ASL21 General Discussion Any progamer "explanation" videos like this one? Data needed BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ ASL21 Strategy, Pimpest Plays Discussions
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro16 Group D [ASL21] Ro16 Group C [ASL21] Ro16 Group B [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend? Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game General RTS Discussion Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story Cricket [SPORT]
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Sexual Health Of Gamers
TrAiDoS
lurker extra damage testi…
StaticNine
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2037 users

[Patch 1.0.0.152: Preseason 3] General Discussion - Page 160

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 158 159 160 161 162 212 Next
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
December 10 2012 23:29 GMT
#3181
On December 11 2012 08:07 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:06 EquilasH wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:03 Sufficiency wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:00 EquilasH wrote:
On December 11 2012 07:57 Sufficiency wrote:
On December 11 2012 07:44 dae wrote:
On December 11 2012 07:41 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 07:34 Requizen wrote:
On December 11 2012 07:30 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 07:28 101toss wrote:
[quote]
bird was always op, it's only taken people a year to figure out that bird is still op after all the nerfs

tbh they've been saying this since like 2010 and she still has never had a proper fotm

That's because it's easier to play something OP and simple like Diana or Rengar than something that requires finesse and thinking.

exactly, and quite frankly i don't see this changing now or any time soon for anivia.


Anivia is really good at killing single targets, and working well with her team.

Sadly, Anivia can't snowball in such a way to pretty much win the game by herself very easily (unlike diana).

This is because she can't dive to kill carries easily, doesn't have any kind of resets, works better when people are diving your team rather then vice versa.


This is also the reason why I gave up on playing Cassiopeia. Way too hard to carry in soloQ.


The reason I never started playing Cass in solo queue is because there are so many gap closers in the game and it's a pain to play against with a champion like Cass (I still thoroughly enjoy playing her in normals though).


Gapclose honestly isn't *that* big of a problem. If it's a match up I feel I can't win, I will just max Q first and farm. The same principle applies to Anivia.

The problem is that if other lanes are falling apart it's difficult to help them.


I'm talking more about mid/lategame, I'm mostly talking about gap-closers like Irelia's etc.

in all honestly anivia is my go to ap of choice vs gap closing types late game cause she has more peel potential for her self and her team than almost any other ap


And I agree. Anivia has tons of self peel and she also is great for helping your team make strategic retreats. Often times in solo queue after taking a turret or inhibitor someone is usually not smart enough to retreat immediately. Then you have the whole enemy team chasing them down. Thankfully, a good Anivia can drop her Wall between you and them. Ult if they flash through the wall, and connect with her Q to shut down the chase. I really can't think of another AP champ that has 3 moves that shut down chasing as hard as Anivia does.

On December 11 2012 08:03 thenexusp wrote:
When you play against a good anivia you get wrecked by the walls and you're like "damn this overpowered bird"

and then you play her and you're like "I'M JARVANANIVIA I'M HELPING"

I like karthus. Wall's a bit weaker than anivia's but screwing it up doesn't screw your entire teamfight over like anivia's


Practice. Practice and more Practice. After about 300 games as Anivia, I finally feel comfortable enough to drop my wall regularly. Now, the only times I have a "I'm helping" moment is when I have a lag spike when I am attempting to drop a wall.

IMO the best walls are the defensive ones when the enemy team is trying to take your inhibitor turret and you wall 2-3 of them in your ult to also get shot at by turret and jumped on by your team.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
adriftt
Profile Joined March 2012
335 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-10 23:39:25
December 10 2012 23:32 GMT
#3182
If you look at Anivias kit she really is broken. Higher base damage on Q and E than any other ap hero. 1:1 AP ratio on both. Ridiculous CC. Good passive. Really though if you compare her numbers to other champs in terms of base damage and scaling its ridiculous. Anivias E has a higher base damage than a level 3 morgana ult.

Its just she is hard to play well and not new or exciting. People flock to heroes like Ahri and Diana then they get nerfed and people move on to the next new thing. If Anivia ever started getting picked more in Solo Q she would be nerfed. Same deal with Karthus.. hes been nerfed a lot but hes still pretty fucking OP. The only reason hes not still picked every tournament game is the prevalence of assassins mid right now.
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
December 10 2012 23:38 GMT
#3183
Has anyone tried Leona recently with like Armor reds/yellows and quints and full block masteries? Seems like she would be like an unstoppable tank in lane.

Also I'm gonna try out onhit/melee Kassadin again....they doubled his ap ratio and there are some sweet new items like the new malady/rageblade/nashors/muramana/BOTRK. Also the new Bveil with the 25 second shield is ludicrously good on him, nobody has a chance to pre-pop it or plan out what to pop it with when you fucking blink up their ass and start whaling on them, so you get a 2.6 second silence and negation of one of their spells = win any 1v1

Or if you arent winning you just leave because you are kassadin.

In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-10 23:41:34
December 10 2012 23:39 GMT
#3184
On December 11 2012 08:32 adriftt wrote:
If you look at Anivias kit she really is broken. Higher base damage on Q and E than any other ap hero. 1:1 AP ratio on both. Ridiculous CC. Good passive.

Its just she is hard to play well and not new or exciting. People flock to heroes like Ahri and Diana then they get nerfed and people move on to the next new thing. If Anivia ever started getting picked more in Solo Q she would be nerfed. Same deal with Karthus.. hes been nerfed a lot but hes still pretty fucking OP. The only reason hes not still picked every tournament game is the prevalence of assassins mid right now.


Except that in order to get the 1:1 AP ratios you have to trigger Q manually to get the double damage, and you have to connect with either your ult or Q to get the double damage on E. Anivia does take significantly more skill to play effectively. The reason why she doesn't get nerfed is because you are going to hard pressed to carry with her in solo queue. Anivia needs a reliable team in order to win. I've had 13/6 and 13/3 scores and still lost because Anivia cannot be everywhere at once and if your team positions poorly or goes in one at a time, then there is little she can do about it.

I have 2 seasons of a losing win to loss ratios with Anivia while maintaining great CS and KDA to back this up.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
December 10 2012 23:40 GMT
#3185
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her
Frolossus
Profile Joined February 2010
United States4779 Posts
December 10 2012 23:43 GMT
#3186
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-10 23:47:00
December 10 2012 23:44 GMT
#3187
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her


Except she has been nerfed repeatedly already. Her ult got more expensive and her egg was nerfed multiple times. Not to mention how easy it is to dodge her Q so she has little to no lane presence until 6. And with the increase to champion speed, champions can afford to not buy boots and still dodge Anivia Q.

On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world


Well there is also Toyz, who is arguably as good if not better at Anivia.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
December 10 2012 23:48 GMT
#3188
On December 11 2012 08:44 NEOtheONE wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her


Except she has been nerfed repeatedly already. Her ult got more expensive and her egg was nerfed multiple times. Not to mention how easy it is to dodge her Q so she has little to no lane presence until 6.

Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world


Well there is also Toyz, who is arguably as good if not better at Anivia.

not enough i guess, he streamed few days ago and openly mentioned it again that he wants make riot to nerf anivia for a longest time with no success
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-10 23:55:21
December 10 2012 23:52 GMT
#3189
On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world

Which is why balancing in league (and a lot of video games) is retarded.

Here's an example from SC2:
"hey guys, in sc2, korean terrans have 70% win rate"
"we need to nerf terran"
"but, foreign terrans have 50% win rate"
"npnp we nerf"
After nerf:
"hey guys, korean terrans have 50% win rate"
"foreign terrans have 30% win rate now though"
"doesn't matter game is balanced k thx"
^This example doesn't even include the ladders

You either have a high skill-cap champion that is super strong (OP) with the best of the best, while the worse players are doing okay at best. If you nerf the champion, it becomes inaccessible to the large user base since it's high skill for less reward, but on the other hand it balances the game at the pro level.

edit: I also want to add that "high-skill" league players probably have the mechanics of a diamond sc2 player (sheer apm and accuracy). Of course, team cohesion is even more important.
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
December 10 2012 23:52 GMT
#3190
On December 11 2012 08:48 kongoline wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:44 NEOtheONE wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her


Except she has been nerfed repeatedly already. Her ult got more expensive and her egg was nerfed multiple times. Not to mention how easy it is to dodge her Q so she has little to no lane presence until 6.

On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world


Well there is also Toyz, who is arguably as good if not better at Anivia.

not enough i guess, he streamed few days ago and openly mentioned it again that he wants make riot to nerf anivia for a longest time with no success


I don't really get your point. So what if Froggen thinks Anivia is in need of a nerf. Being really strong but having a very high skill demand to unlock that strength is perfectly fine. In fact it's good design. Why would riot want to ruin good design just because a progamer wants to play something else(Even though he's just playing bruisers these days)?
Sufficiency
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Canada23833 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-10 23:55:36
December 10 2012 23:54 GMT
#3191
On December 11 2012 08:52 101toss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world

Which is why balancing in league (and a lot of video games) is retarded.

Here's an example from SC2:
"hey guys, in sc2, korean terrans have 70% win rate"
"we need to nerf terran"
"but, foreign terrans have 50% win rate"
"npnp we nerf"
After nerf:
"hey guys, korean terrans have 50% win rate"
"foreign terrans have 30% win rate now though"
"doesn't matter game is balanced k thx"
^This example doesn't even include the ladders

You either have a high skill-cap champion that is super strong (OP) with the best of the best, while the worse players are doing okay at best. If you nerf the champion, it becomes inaccessible to the large user base since it's high skill for less reward, but on the other hand it balances the game at the pro level.


Actually, game balance in a "competitive esport" only has to do with how it balances out for the highest level of play.

On December 11 2012 08:52 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:48 kongoline wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:44 NEOtheONE wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her


Except she has been nerfed repeatedly already. Her ult got more expensive and her egg was nerfed multiple times. Not to mention how easy it is to dodge her Q so she has little to no lane presence until 6.

On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world


Well there is also Toyz, who is arguably as good if not better at Anivia.

not enough i guess, he streamed few days ago and openly mentioned it again that he wants make riot to nerf anivia for a longest time with no success


I don't really get your point. So what if Froggen thinks Anivia is in need of a nerf. Being really strong but having a very high skill demand to unlock that strength is perfectly fine. In fact it's good design. Why would riot want to ruin good design just because a progamer wants to play something else(Even though he's just playing bruisers these days)?


I think Anivia's skillcap is not as high as Cassiopeia right now, yet no one cries about Cass nerfs.
https://twitter.com/SufficientStats
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-10 23:58:37
December 10 2012 23:58 GMT
#3192
Well Cass has no team that built their playstyle around her like CLG.EU. Anivia was the embodiment of CLG.EU for a long time and still is to some extent.
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-11 00:01:47
December 10 2012 23:58 GMT
#3193
On December 11 2012 08:54 Sufficiency wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:52 101toss wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world

Which is why balancing in league (and a lot of video games) is retarded.

Here's an example from SC2:
"hey guys, in sc2, korean terrans have 70% win rate"
"we need to nerf terran"
"but, foreign terrans have 50% win rate"
"npnp we nerf"
After nerf:
"hey guys, korean terrans have 50% win rate"
"foreign terrans have 30% win rate now though"
"doesn't matter game is balanced k thx"
^This example doesn't even include the ladders

You either have a high skill-cap champion that is super strong (OP) with the best of the best, while the worse players are doing okay at best. If you nerf the champion, it becomes inaccessible to the large user base since it's high skill for less reward, but on the other hand it balances the game at the pro level.


Actually, game balance in a "competitive esport" only has to do with how it balances out for the highest level of play.

Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:52 Numy wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:48 kongoline wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:44 NEOtheONE wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her


Except she has been nerfed repeatedly already. Her ult got more expensive and her egg was nerfed multiple times. Not to mention how easy it is to dodge her Q so she has little to no lane presence until 6.

On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world


Well there is also Toyz, who is arguably as good if not better at Anivia.

not enough i guess, he streamed few days ago and openly mentioned it again that he wants make riot to nerf anivia for a longest time with no success


I don't really get your point. So what if Froggen thinks Anivia is in need of a nerf. Being really strong but having a very high skill demand to unlock that strength is perfectly fine. In fact it's good design. Why would riot want to ruin good design just because a progamer wants to play something else(Even though he's just playing bruisers these days)?


I think Anivia's skillcap is not as high as Cassiopeia right now, yet no one cries about Cass nerfs.

So if league is a competitive esport as riot tries to say, then how come they aren't nerfing the bird (and other top tier champions) who is clearly op at higher levels? And why does league balance in favor of casual players (remember riot saying they wouldn't buff xin because he was too noob stomp even though he was garbage in real games)?

I still think competitive league is a joke, there's practically no sponsors and at this point only riot is throwing money at it

edit: a problem with league is they add new shit to it too often, so power creep becomes a massive issue (i.e. everyone has fucking resets, no mana issues, some new items are absurdly powerful now, etc.)
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
kongoline
Profile Joined February 2012
6318 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-11 00:00:51
December 11 2012 00:00 GMT
#3194
On December 11 2012 08:52 Numy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:48 kongoline wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:44 NEOtheONE wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her


Except she has been nerfed repeatedly already. Her ult got more expensive and her egg was nerfed multiple times. Not to mention how easy it is to dodge her Q so she has little to no lane presence until 6.

On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world


Well there is also Toyz, who is arguably as good if not better at Anivia.

not enough i guess, he streamed few days ago and openly mentioned it again that he wants make riot to nerf anivia for a longest time with no success


I don't really get your point. So what if Froggen thinks Anivia is in need of a nerf. Being really strong but having a very high skill demand to unlock that strength is perfectly fine. In fact it's good design. Why would riot want to ruin good design just because a progamer wants to play something else(Even though he's just playing bruisers these days)?

dude its not only froggen, alex ich said it(he actually is a huge anivia hater), snoopeh said it, pretty much every pro admits she is broken
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-11 00:05:57
December 11 2012 00:04 GMT
#3195
On December 11 2012 08:58 101toss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:54 Sufficiency wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:52 101toss wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world

Which is why balancing in league (and a lot of video games) is retarded.

Here's an example from SC2:
"hey guys, in sc2, korean terrans have 70% win rate"
"we need to nerf terran"
"but, foreign terrans have 50% win rate"
"npnp we nerf"
After nerf:
"hey guys, korean terrans have 50% win rate"
"foreign terrans have 30% win rate now though"
"doesn't matter game is balanced k thx"
^This example doesn't even include the ladders

You either have a high skill-cap champion that is super strong (OP) with the best of the best, while the worse players are doing okay at best. If you nerf the champion, it becomes inaccessible to the large user base since it's high skill for less reward, but on the other hand it balances the game at the pro level.


Actually, game balance in a "competitive esport" only has to do with how it balances out for the highest level of play.

On December 11 2012 08:52 Numy wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:48 kongoline wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:44 NEOtheONE wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her


Except she has been nerfed repeatedly already. Her ult got more expensive and her egg was nerfed multiple times. Not to mention how easy it is to dodge her Q so she has little to no lane presence until 6.

On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world


Well there is also Toyz, who is arguably as good if not better at Anivia.

not enough i guess, he streamed few days ago and openly mentioned it again that he wants make riot to nerf anivia for a longest time with no success


I don't really get your point. So what if Froggen thinks Anivia is in need of a nerf. Being really strong but having a very high skill demand to unlock that strength is perfectly fine. In fact it's good design. Why would riot want to ruin good design just because a progamer wants to play something else(Even though he's just playing bruisers these days)?


I think Anivia's skillcap is not as high as Cassiopeia right now, yet no one cries about Cass nerfs.

So if league is a competitive esport as riot tries to say, then how come they aren't nerfing the bird (and other top tier champions) who is clearly op at higher levels? And why does league balance in favor of casual players (remember riot saying they wouldn't buff xin because he was too noob stomp even though he was garbage in real games)?

I still think competitive league is a joke, there's practically no sponsors and at this point only riot is throwing money at it



First off, there are these things called bans. So what if one player is god tier with one champ. You ban the champ and problem solved. Second, LoL is still largely aimed at casuals, as such balance is going to focus on making the game as fun for as many people as possible. Third, even Froggen still loses games because Anivia by herself does not a game win. There are 4 other players on his team and 5 on the other team that also affect the outcome. Fourth, deny Anivia blue and you shut her down real hard because Anivia is arguably the most mana hungry champ in the game.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
Parnage
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States7414 Posts
December 11 2012 00:06 GMT
#3196
On December 11 2012 08:58 101toss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:54 Sufficiency wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:52 101toss wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world

Which is why balancing in league (and a lot of video games) is retarded.

Here's an example from SC2:
"hey guys, in sc2, korean terrans have 70% win rate"
"we need to nerf terran"
"but, foreign terrans have 50% win rate"
"npnp we nerf"
After nerf:
"hey guys, korean terrans have 50% win rate"
"foreign terrans have 30% win rate now though"
"doesn't matter game is balanced k thx"
^This example doesn't even include the ladders

You either have a high skill-cap champion that is super strong (OP) with the best of the best, while the worse players are doing okay at best. If you nerf the champion, it becomes inaccessible to the large user base since it's high skill for less reward, but on the other hand it balances the game at the pro level.


Actually, game balance in a "competitive esport" only has to do with how it balances out for the highest level of play.

On December 11 2012 08:52 Numy wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:48 kongoline wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:44 NEOtheONE wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her


Except she has been nerfed repeatedly already. Her ult got more expensive and her egg was nerfed multiple times. Not to mention how easy it is to dodge her Q so she has little to no lane presence until 6.

On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world


Well there is also Toyz, who is arguably as good if not better at Anivia.

not enough i guess, he streamed few days ago and openly mentioned it again that he wants make riot to nerf anivia for a longest time with no success


I don't really get your point. So what if Froggen thinks Anivia is in need of a nerf. Being really strong but having a very high skill demand to unlock that strength is perfectly fine. In fact it's good design. Why would riot want to ruin good design just because a progamer wants to play something else(Even though he's just playing bruisers these days)?


I think Anivia's skillcap is not as high as Cassiopeia right now, yet no one cries about Cass nerfs.

So if league is a competitive esport as riot tries to say, then how come they aren't nerfing the bird (and other top tier champions) who is clearly op at higher levels? And why does league balance in favor of casual players (remember riot saying they wouldn't buff xin because he was too noob stomp even though he was garbage in real games)?

I still think competitive league is a joke, there's practically no sponsors and at this point only riot is throwing money at it

edit: a problem with league is they add new shit to it too often, so power creep becomes a massive issue (i.e. everyone has fucking resets, no mana issues, some new items are absurdly powerful now, etc.)


Ignoring the fact that Xin was being reworked as old xin was either really strong or terrible(What a fun line of balance). They have indirectly hit Anivia several times with Blue rework, item changes and the like. Just because they have not outright hit her directly doesn't mean she hasn't been effected by these things.

But thanks for using all of this as a lure to call League a joke in it's own subforum. Good job. Take your amateur game designer degree and bug off.
-orb- Fan. Live the Nal_rA dream. || Yordles are cool.
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-11 00:22:14
December 11 2012 00:20 GMT
#3197
On December 11 2012 09:06 Parnage wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 11 2012 08:58 101toss wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:54 Sufficiency wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:52 101toss wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world

Which is why balancing in league (and a lot of video games) is retarded.

Here's an example from SC2:
"hey guys, in sc2, korean terrans have 70% win rate"
"we need to nerf terran"
"but, foreign terrans have 50% win rate"
"npnp we nerf"
After nerf:
"hey guys, korean terrans have 50% win rate"
"foreign terrans have 30% win rate now though"
"doesn't matter game is balanced k thx"
^This example doesn't even include the ladders

You either have a high skill-cap champion that is super strong (OP) with the best of the best, while the worse players are doing okay at best. If you nerf the champion, it becomes inaccessible to the large user base since it's high skill for less reward, but on the other hand it balances the game at the pro level.


Actually, game balance in a "competitive esport" only has to do with how it balances out for the highest level of play.

On December 11 2012 08:52 Numy wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:48 kongoline wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:44 NEOtheONE wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her


Except she has been nerfed repeatedly already. Her ult got more expensive and her egg was nerfed multiple times. Not to mention how easy it is to dodge her Q so she has little to no lane presence until 6.

On December 11 2012 08:43 Frolossus wrote:
On December 11 2012 08:40 kongoline wrote:
froggen openly says on his stream he wants riot to nerf anivia just to be able to play other mids which arent half as strong as her

except there is only one froggen in the world


Well there is also Toyz, who is arguably as good if not better at Anivia.

not enough i guess, he streamed few days ago and openly mentioned it again that he wants make riot to nerf anivia for a longest time with no success


I don't really get your point. So what if Froggen thinks Anivia is in need of a nerf. Being really strong but having a very high skill demand to unlock that strength is perfectly fine. In fact it's good design. Why would riot want to ruin good design just because a progamer wants to play something else(Even though he's just playing bruisers these days)?


I think Anivia's skillcap is not as high as Cassiopeia right now, yet no one cries about Cass nerfs.

So if league is a competitive esport as riot tries to say, then how come they aren't nerfing the bird (and other top tier champions) who is clearly op at higher levels? And why does league balance in favor of casual players (remember riot saying they wouldn't buff xin because he was too noob stomp even though he was garbage in real games)?

I still think competitive league is a joke, there's practically no sponsors and at this point only riot is throwing money at it

edit: a problem with league is they add new shit to it too often, so power creep becomes a massive issue (i.e. everyone has fucking resets, no mana issues, some new items are absurdly powerful now, etc.)


Ignoring the fact that Xin was being reworked as old xin was either really strong or terrible(What a fun line of balance). They have indirectly hit Anivia several times with Blue rework, item changes and the like. Just because they have not outright hit her directly doesn't mean she hasn't been effected by these things.

But thanks for using all of this as a lure to call League a joke in it's own subforum. Good job. Take your amateur game designer degree and bug off.

They also "indirectly" buff anivia, with what, grail (it only took people a few months to figure this one out) and as an extension more people buying chalice, which significantly mitigates mana issues (with blue 0 fucks are given), and as a further extension, all your mana regen nerfs are of no consequence. Combine this with having a broken kit (seriously, that wall) and retarded scaling and you have something that is clearly, and the pros agree.

But I digress, gogo casual balancing. I'm kinda surprised that darius is still where he is right now, actually.

It also doesn't take a shitty game degree to figure out when something is broken and needs fixing. But hey, we all enjoy league of black cleaver, right?
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
Ghost-z
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1291 Posts
December 11 2012 00:22 GMT
#3198
To resolve this issue of power creep, I can forsee Riot rolling out minor nerfs to the top 10 most played champions in League Tournaments.

Another question about the number of champions in league. Does any think Riot will or should ever retire certain champions from Ranked play in an effort to keep the champion pool from getting out of hand?
Fairy Tales when you're a child begin with "Once upon a time" and when you're an adult begin, "If elected I promise..."
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
December 11 2012 00:25 GMT
#3199
Anivia is inaccessible to like 95% of LoL players. Not only because of skillcap, but because even if you master the bird, the rest of your team still will derp around and it won't matter. Her strength is teamfights, but "teamfights" always end up being a series of 2v3s where one side inevitably follows up on a single player's derp causing a team derp into a loss.

TOO has a semi-famous video about this, but I can't find it.
Freeeeeeedom
Cloud9157
Profile Joined December 2010
United States2968 Posts
December 11 2012 00:25 GMT
#3200
Camp top vs a Darius>gank him>gank him more>your top laner wins lane, gg
"Are you absolutely sure that armor only affects the health portion of a protoss army??? That doesn't sound right to me. source?" -Some idiot
Prev 1 158 159 160 161 162 212 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Cup
00:00
#78
PiGStarcraft595
CranKy Ducklings61
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft595
ProTech128
MaxPax 83
ROOTCatZ 76
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 11009
GuemChi 5700
Dota 2
monkeys_forever660
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King52
Other Games
summit1g12030
tarik_tv5575
hungrybox589
shahzam412
C9.Mang0351
WinterStarcraft321
Trikslyr160
Maynarde135
ViBE65
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1728
BasetradeTV328
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 47
• EnkiAlexander 33
• CranKy Ducklings SOOP4
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 165
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Upcoming Events
RSL Revival
8h 9m
Replay Cast
22h 9m
The PondCast
1d 8h
KCM Race Survival
1d 8h
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
1d 9h
Gerald vs TBD
Clem vs TBD
ByuN vs TBD
Rogue vs MaxPax
ShoWTimE vs TBD
OSC
1d 13h
CranKy Ducklings
1d 22h
Escore
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
3 days
[ Show More ]
Universe Titan Cup
3 days
Rogue vs Percival
Ladder Legends
3 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
BSL
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
WardiTV Map Contest Tou…
4 days
Ladder Legends
4 days
BSL
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Wardi Open
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
5 days
Soma vs TBD
Monday Night Weeklies
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
TBD vs YSC
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-04-20
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W4
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.