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[Patch 1.0.0.152: Preseason 3] General Discussion - Page 147

Forum Index > LoL General
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Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14208 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-10 05:34:04
December 10 2012 05:31 GMT
#2921
Just get a chalice on nunu and then gunblade stack from there. you thought consumes sustain was crazy as it is? wait until you have 40% spell vamp

On December 10 2012 14:31 TheYango wrote:
People should be turning their Chalices into Mikael's and not Grail.


This guy knows whats up. Suddenly you have amazing anti dive and peel. Get twin shadows for bonus ap and zoneing. sit next to the adc and wait for then to kill everything while you sit next to them and kill anyone who gets near.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
December 10 2012 05:34 GMT
#2922
I tried running around with 80% spell vamp on a jungle akali, that was fun.
Nos-
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada12016 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-10 05:49:32
December 10 2012 05:43 GMT
#2923
How to uh, deal with Elise? She builds sorc and guise and I kind of just die. I tried going merc + abyssal on Cass but then I blow up to everything else on their team :/

Edit: feels everything just hurts a whole lot in general this patch, maybe I'm just whining I don't know it's kind of frustrating to play right now
Bronze player stuck in platinum
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14208 Posts
December 10 2012 05:45 GMT
#2924
Man Riot should really create a service that you can enter your codes in and see if they're legit and what they are. right now the only way to know if a code works or not is to put it into the system and redeem it.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-10 05:51:17
December 10 2012 05:49 GMT
#2925
The thing is, Mikael's has the potential to be totally under-bought for a long time, because the active isn't all that easy to use optimally (maximizing both the effectiveness of the heal component and the CC-removal component), and coordinating its use in multiples or alongside QSS or Cleanse in solo queue is going to be virtually impossible.

But by the numbers, the item is stupidly effective. The item gives 1860 gold worth of mana/mp5/MR, so if you're someone who can actually make use of all those stats (basically every AP that would be buying Chalice in the first place), you're paying 340 gold for both the Chalice passive, AND an active that's comparable in power to an additional summoner spell--an absolutely ridiculous price point. By comparison, QSS doesn't give ANY additional stats over a Negatron Cloak, and is paying 850 gold for its active.
Moderator
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
December 10 2012 05:49 GMT
#2926
On December 10 2012 13:03 thenexusp wrote:
Homeguard is sleeper op. Teleport ganks are 100x scarier with homeguard boots.

I love when something that seems innocuous at first (wtf? it doesn't do anything once I leave base) turns out to have really good applications.


Yeah, teleport ganks are pretty epic with homeguard, I am going to have to try it on my AP mids. It is a legit reason to go teleport flash rather than the usual ignite.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
Dusty
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States3359 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-10 05:52:08
December 10 2012 05:51 GMT
#2927
Grail is still a good item. It's pretty much a portable blue buff that never leaves you. It's pretty much core on spammy high-mana mids like Chogath.

edit: pretty much.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States14208 Posts
December 10 2012 05:53 GMT
#2928
On December 10 2012 14:49 TheYango wrote:
The thing is, Mikael's has the potential to be totally under-bought for a long time, because the active isn't all that easy to use optimally (maximizing both the effectiveness of the heal component and the CC-removal component), and coordinating its use in multiples or alongside QSS or Cleanse in solo queue is going to be virtually impossible.

But by the numbers, the item is stupidly effective. The item gives 1860 gold worth of mana/mp5/MR, so if you're someone who can actually make use of all those stats (basically every AP that would be buying Chalice in the first place), you're paying 340 gold for an active that's comparable in power to an additional summoner spell--an absolutely ridiculous price point. By comparison, QSS doesn't give ANY additional stats over a Negatron Cloak, and is paying 850 gold for its active.


I think because of that its going to be really popular with the poke type supports. Having an item that allows you to basically cleanse and heal your adc will make up big for the fact that you can't do that much past using your ult in a teamfight.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-10 05:58:43
December 10 2012 05:56 GMT
#2929
That's the thing. Supports will get it late, and will give up a ton to get it because they won't 100% need all the mana stats. Most of the time, a Support getting Chalice is going to be totally out of the way from the items they would normally buy.

APs SHOULD be getting it, because any AP that's getting Chalice uses the mana stats extremely well already, making the upgrade to Mikael's disgustingly cost-efficient. By and large, APs are often going to be buying the Chalice anyway.
Moderator
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
December 10 2012 05:58 GMT
#2930
On December 10 2012 14:56 TheYango wrote:
That's the thing. Supports will get it late, and will give up a ton to get it because they won't 100% need all the mana stats.

APs SHOULD be getting it, because any AP that's getting Chalice uses the mana stats extremely well already, making the upgrade to Mikael's disgustingly cost-efficient.

Isn't the goal of a lot of ap's to burst down the ad carry? The lack of damage puts a huge dent in that.
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-10 06:01:38
December 10 2012 06:00 GMT
#2931
On December 10 2012 14:58 101toss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 14:56 TheYango wrote:
That's the thing. Supports will get it late, and will give up a ton to get it because they won't 100% need all the mana stats.

APs SHOULD be getting it, because any AP that's getting Chalice uses the mana stats extremely well already, making the upgrade to Mikael's disgustingly cost-efficient.

Isn't the goal of a lot of ap's to burst down the ad carry? The lack of damage puts a huge dent in that.

Most of the APs that are burst-oriented don't need the Chalice-based mana stats that badly and were only getting Grail because it was stupidly cost-efficient overall (which it isn't anymore). The champs that really wanted Grail badly (Anivia, Orianna, etc.) are both much more sustained-damage and utility-oriented. In which case, the lion's share of stats they're getting out of Mikael's are still the mana stats which they would be buying in some form regardless, and then paying the hilariously low price of ~300 gold to get the active, which is a steal, period.
Moderator
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
December 10 2012 06:01 GMT
#2932
On December 10 2012 13:37 arb wrote:
lich bane feels so bad now


Mathematically speaking it shouldn't so long as you have some penetration itemization, unless you're using it on one of the rare champions who could convert its damage into magic damage. Otherwise, perfectly normal levels of Armor on carries would have reduced the damage by 50% or more. Even with equivalent MR (fairly difficult considering there's easily a 30+MR difference in base stats at 18 for carries), a simple Void Staff would have resulted in more damage even with a 75% proc.

Considering that it's now harder for carries to stack MR and penetration is stronger, Lich Bane shouldn't really feel bad unless your name is Poppy or Twisted Fate.

On December 10 2012 14:34 PrinceXizor wrote:
I tried running around with 80% spell vamp on a jungle akali, that was fun.


The best part is Smite turns into a self-heal during fights. All of a sudden you have 700 health out of nowhere.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
onlywonderboy
Profile Joined August 2012
United States23745 Posts
December 10 2012 06:09 GMT
#2933
On December 10 2012 15:01 Seuss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 13:37 arb wrote:
lich bane feels so bad now


Mathematically speaking it shouldn't so long as you have some penetration itemization, unless you're using it on one of the rare champions who could convert its damage into magic damage. Otherwise, perfectly normal levels of Armor on carries would have reduced the damage by 50% or more. Even with equivalent MR (fairly difficult considering there's easily a 30+MR difference in base stats at 18 for carries), a simple Void Staff would have resulted in more damage even with a 75% proc.

Considering that it's now harder for carries to stack MR and penetration is stronger, Lich Bane shouldn't really feel bad unless your name is Poppy or Twisted Fate.

Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 14:34 PrinceXizor wrote:
I tried running around with 80% spell vamp on a jungle akali, that was fun.


The best part is Smite turns into a self-heal during fights. All of a sudden you have 700 health out of nowhere.

I always found the fact that Smite procs spell vamp to be slightly odd.
RIP Ryan Davis / TL or Die / @onlywonderboy
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
December 10 2012 06:14 GMT
#2934
I'm wondering about crucible: does it cleanses then heal, or the opposite?
Well if it's a simple cleanse then it doesn't matter as it won't remove the healing debuff, but if it removes it it can be important to know.

On Swain, maybe you'd want crucible + zhonya against burst threats, and grail when you're more concerned about sustained damage and you'll benefit more from the +12% max mana on kill/assist for your survivability and damage output.
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
Dan HH
Profile Joined July 2012
Romania9246 Posts
December 10 2012 06:15 GMT
#2935
IEM KR Qualifier starting now with MVP White, CJ Entus, Team OP and ESG (Reapered's new team)

English - http://www.twitch.tv/eslasia
Korean - http://www.twitch.tv/invenbroadcast/
101toss
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
3232 Posts
December 10 2012 06:19 GMT
#2936
On December 10 2012 15:14 Alaric wrote:
I'm wondering about crucible: does it cleanses then heal, or the opposite?
Well if it's a simple cleanse then it doesn't matter as it won't remove the healing debuff, but if it removes it it can be important to know.

On Swain, maybe you'd want crucible + zhonya against burst threats, and grail when you're more concerned about sustained damage and you'll benefit more from the +12% max mana on kill/assist for your survivability and damage output.

Crucible isn't summoner cleanse, it cleanses the cc that tenacity reduces

As a consequence, the order doesn't matter
Math doesn't kill champions and neither do wards
Alaric
Profile Joined November 2009
France45622 Posts
December 10 2012 06:26 GMT
#2937
On December 10 2012 15:15 Dan HH wrote:
IEM KR Qualifier starting now with MVP White, CJ Entus, Team OP and ESG (Reapered's new team)

English - http://www.twitch.tv/eslasia
Korean - http://www.twitch.tv/invenbroadcast/

Jarv Talon Rengar for MVP white. They're playing on s3 patch, eh?
Cant take LMS hipsters serious.
NEOtheONE
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2233 Posts
December 10 2012 06:31 GMT
#2938
On December 10 2012 15:00 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 10 2012 14:58 101toss wrote:
On December 10 2012 14:56 TheYango wrote:
That's the thing. Supports will get it late, and will give up a ton to get it because they won't 100% need all the mana stats.

APs SHOULD be getting it, because any AP that's getting Chalice uses the mana stats extremely well already, making the upgrade to Mikael's disgustingly cost-efficient.

Isn't the goal of a lot of ap's to burst down the ad carry? The lack of damage puts a huge dent in that.

Most of the APs that are burst-oriented don't need the Chalice-based mana stats that badly and were only getting Grail because it was stupidly cost-efficient overall (which it isn't anymore). The champs that really wanted Grail badly (Anivia, Orianna, etc.) are both much more sustained-damage and utility-oriented. In which case, the lion's share of stats they're getting out of Mikael's are still the mana stats which they would be buying in some form regardless, and then paying the hilariously low price of ~300 gold to get the active, which is a steal, period.


Anivia is pretty burst oriented given her 2 1.0 AP ratio spells. Mikael's just seems like such a waste of a slot unless you bought it specifically for the teamfight phase. I'd rather have a 3000+ mana pool on Anivia as no amount of mana regen can keep up with using Anivia ult in combination with any of her other skills, so it's simply a lot better to have a large pool available.
If I am going to build chalice I'd still rather turn it into Grail because grail gives 15 mana per 5 to Mikael's 9, 60 AP to mikael's 0, same MR, and using the active on mikael's is going to be limited to a very precise time window, while Grail's unique passive helps to keep Anivia supplied with mana throughout a teamfight.
Abstracts, the too long didn't read of the educated world.
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-10 06:36:33
December 10 2012 06:34 GMT
#2939
Asked before but that was during IWillDominate drama so never got an answer.

Is there any reason not to run 21 utility on Diana jungle? You don't need the deep offensive/defensive trees to clear, the extra gold means you keep up and can start Flask+Machete, and the extra exp means you will hit 6 faster and stay on par with lanes exp wise. Also the extra move speed means you are almost as fast with no boots as most champs are with lvl 1 boots. I have been having quite a bit of luck with the 0/9/21 and wondering if I am missing something.

Also why does no one build Lich Bane on her? Makes your q>ult>aa attack much more powerful, and with the way her cool downs are you can burn down towers at an absurd rate. Add in the extra mana/AP from the Sheen part and it seems like a perfect item for her.

Here's what I use:
+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

I run AS reds, Armor yellows, Scaling AP blues, and flat AP quints
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
dae
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada1600 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-10 06:45:08
December 10 2012 06:40 GMT
#2940
On December 10 2012 15:34 Diamond wrote:
Asked before but that was during IWillDominate drama so never got an answer.

Is there any reason not to run 21 utility on Diana jungle? You don't need the deep offensive/defensive trees to clear, the extra gold means you keep up and can start Flask+Machete, and the extra exp means you will hit 6 faster and stay on par with lanes exp wise. Also the extra move speed means you are almost as fast with no boots as most champs are with lvl 1 boots. I have been having quite a bit of luck with the 0/9/21 and wondering if I am missing something.

Also why does no one build Lich Bane on her? Makes your q>ult>aa attack much more powerful, and with the way her cool downs are you can burn down towers at an absurd rate. Add in the extra mana/AP from the Sheen part and it seems like a perfect item for her.


On mid diana, I tend not to build lichbane on her because you need the defense/ap items early, like abyssal and hourglass, in order to be able to go in in fights, and then you get dfg to be able to blow up their ad/ap, and then they all have MR so you need void, then you have 4 ap items and no deathcap so you just get that.

Its mostly that it gives no defensive stats, and that diana doesn't really build alot of AP early to make use of it (Compared to mids that go deathcap first or second item).

Also, you really don't need the mana.

Edit: Though Iceborn on her is looking really good... I need to try that.
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