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On December 04 2012 06:53 UniversalSnip wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 06:50 overt wrote:
Does anyone know if Ravenous Hydra or Blade of the Ruined King are going to be better life steal options than BT? I guess it'd largely depend on what champion you're playing and/or how many autos you're getting off and/or how many enemies you're hitting with Hydra passive.
Still just the possibility that I might not be forced to go BT for life steal on melee champions is pretty cool. I'm having a very hard time imagining BT being better than hydra on melees.
The main thing is figuring out which melees will prefer Hydra over BT and which melees will actually make use of BotRK. I can't really justify BotRK on too many champions other than people who like on-hit. Hydra seems like it'll be best on auto-attack melees such as Fiora, Tryndamere, or Gangplank but BT still looks like the item of choice for AD casters due to its higher AD value.
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United States47024 Posts
Anyone with PBE can tell me whether the new DFG has the current one's 750 range or the old one's 650?
Nobody mentions it, but thats honestly the reason the revamped manaless DFG felt so much stronger--750 range makes leading off with it 10x easier, whereas the old 650 range DFG required you to often use it as the 2nd or 3rd spell in your combo since it was so short, reducing its practical effectiveness.
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On December 04 2012 06:58 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 06:53 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 04 2012 06:50 overt wrote:
Does anyone know if Ravenous Hydra or Blade of the Ruined King are going to be better life steal options than BT? I guess it'd largely depend on what champion you're playing and/or how many autos you're getting off and/or how many enemies you're hitting with Hydra passive.
Still just the possibility that I might not be forced to go BT for life steal on melee champions is pretty cool. I'm having a very hard time imagining BT being better than hydra on melees. The main thing is figuring out which melees will prefer Hydra over BT and which melees will actually make use of BotRK. I can't really justify BotRK on too many champions other than people who like on-hit. Hydra seems like it'll be best on auto-attack melees such as Fiora, Tryndamere, or Gangplank but BT still looks like the item of choice for AD casters due to its higher AD value.
If the AD caster is based on Bonus AD BT will likely be better. The two are roughly even around 200-225 Bonus AD, assuming 7.0 AD ratios on a combo. That's not a common figure unless you're incredibly fed.
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Yeah I'm not sure on BotRK. Maybe a high attack speed champ with no/few AD ratios like Fiora might like it to chew down high health/low resist targets, but that seems pretty situational. Maybe, very maybe, I'd consider it on GP to have extra pre-fight poke on Q, but even then I'd rather just have crit or something I think.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:07 TheYango wrote:
Anyone with PBE can tell me whether the new DFG has the current one's 750 range or the old one's 650?
Nobody mentions it, but thats honestly the reason the revamped manaless DFG felt so much stronger--750 range makes leading off with it 10x easier, whereas the old 650 range DFG required you to often use it as the 2nd or 3rd spell in your combo since it was so short, reducing its practical effectiveness.
I'm patching right now so I can grab a screenshot. In theory though that 15% bonus magic damage sounds pretty good on burst casters, or in a double AP comp. I know the raw stats aren't cost effective but factoring in the value of an active is kind of hard.
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On December 04 2012 07:14 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:07 TheYango wrote:
Anyone with PBE can tell me whether the new DFG has the current one's 750 range or the old one's 650?
Nobody mentions it, but thats honestly the reason the revamped manaless DFG felt so much stronger--750 range makes leading off with it 10x easier, whereas the old 650 range DFG required you to often use it as the 2nd or 3rd spell in your combo since it was so short, reducing its practical effectiveness. I'm patching right now so I can grab a screenshot. In theory though that 15% bonus magic damage sounds pretty good on burst casters, or in a double AP comp. I know the raw stats aren't cost effective but factoring in the value of an active is kind of hard.
It's 15% max health and 20% extra magic damage, or at least that's what's on the store widget.
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United States23745 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:15 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:14 onlywonderboy wrote:On December 04 2012 07:07 TheYango wrote:
Anyone with PBE can tell me whether the new DFG has the current one's 750 range or the old one's 650?
Nobody mentions it, but thats honestly the reason the revamped manaless DFG felt so much stronger--750 range makes leading off with it 10x easier, whereas the old 650 range DFG required you to often use it as the 2nd or 3rd spell in your combo since it was so short, reducing its practical effectiveness. I'm patching right now so I can grab a screenshot. In theory though that 15% bonus magic damage sounds pretty good on burst casters, or in a double AP comp. I know the raw stats aren't cost effective but factoring in the value of an active is kind of hard. It's 15% max health and 20% extra magic damage, or at least that's what's on the store widget.
That's what I'm saying, I feel like the active might make up for the fact the raw stats aren't cost effective
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United States47024 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:09 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 06:58 overt wrote:On December 04 2012 06:53 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 04 2012 06:50 overt wrote:
Does anyone know if Ravenous Hydra or Blade of the Ruined King are going to be better life steal options than BT? I guess it'd largely depend on what champion you're playing and/or how many autos you're getting off and/or how many enemies you're hitting with Hydra passive.
Still just the possibility that I might not be forced to go BT for life steal on melee champions is pretty cool. I'm having a very hard time imagining BT being better than hydra on melees. The main thing is figuring out which melees will prefer Hydra over BT and which melees will actually make use of BotRK. I can't really justify BotRK on too many champions other than people who like on-hit. Hydra seems like it'll be best on auto-attack melees such as Fiora, Tryndamere, or Gangplank but BT still looks like the item of choice for AD casters due to its higher AD value. If the AD caster is based on Bonus AD BT will likely be better. The two are roughly even around 200-225 Bonus AD, assuming 7.0 AD ratios on a combo. That's not a common figure unless you're incredibly fed.
How do the Hydra and BotRK actives interact with your autoattack animation (e.g. how long are their own respective animations and do they interrupt/reset your AA animation)?
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I'm so disappointed that yellow ribbon has priority over the blue one. Just when I thought I could be one of the very few!
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On December 04 2012 07:19 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 07:09 Seuss wrote:On December 04 2012 06:58 overt wrote:On December 04 2012 06:53 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 04 2012 06:50 overt wrote:
Does anyone know if Ravenous Hydra or Blade of the Ruined King are going to be better life steal options than BT? I guess it'd largely depend on what champion you're playing and/or how many autos you're getting off and/or how many enemies you're hitting with Hydra passive.
Still just the possibility that I might not be forced to go BT for life steal on melee champions is pretty cool. I'm having a very hard time imagining BT being better than hydra on melees. The main thing is figuring out which melees will prefer Hydra over BT and which melees will actually make use of BotRK. I can't really justify BotRK on too many champions other than people who like on-hit. Hydra seems like it'll be best on auto-attack melees such as Fiora, Tryndamere, or Gangplank but BT still looks like the item of choice for AD casters due to its higher AD value. If the AD caster is based on Bonus AD BT will likely be better. The two are roughly even around 200-225 Bonus AD, assuming 7.0 AD ratios on a combo. That's not a common figure unless you're incredibly fed. How do the Hydra and BotRK actives interact with your autoattack animation (e.g. how long are their own respective animations and do they interrupt/reset your AA animation)?
I'm not on the PBE, but isn't BotRK's active just the same as Gunblade/Cutlass? If that's the case, it's just instant and doesn't interact with your swing
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On December 04 2012 07:14 Requizen wrote:
Yeah I'm not sure on BotRK. Maybe a high attack speed champ with no/few AD ratios like Fiora might like it to chew down high health/low resist targets, but that seems pretty situational. Maybe, very maybe, I'd consider it on GP to have extra pre-fight poke on Q, but even then I'd rather just have crit or something I think.
BotRK might work on Fiora if the passive applies to her ult because while her ult has a huge ratio getting healed up by it is what makes using it in a team fight important. If BotRK heals you more than a BT it might be a decent buy. But Fiora is probably gonna rush Hydra every game and idk if BotRK would be good as a second damage item before you get GA or Mercurial Scimitar. Still, Fiora likes to burst people down with E so I could see Blade being good on her.
I dunno about GP. I think Hydra+IE sounds sexy on him. I figured Teemo might like BotRK if you go on-hit. AD casters might like it as their fifth/sixth item for the active.
edit:
No, active on BotRK scales with your AD, steals health, and doesn't just slow them you steal their movement speed (slowing them and speeding yourself up).
edit2:
Also the active on Blade is physical damage instead of magic so it'll work with your BC or LW.
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On December 04 2012 06:47 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 06:38 Ketara wrote:
I'm not understanding this Avarice Blade in S3 is bad for gold generation argument.
If it gives 2 GP/10 and 2 gold per kill, and Philo gives 5 GP/10, then in order to make it better you just need to average 2 CS every 10 seconds, or 12 CS per minute.
That's really not that hard to do, is it? It just means Avarice is terrible on supports. 12 CS per minute is 100% perfect CS in a lane and/or stealing from your jungler a ton. That's a pretty unreasonable assumption unless you're a pro playing the #1 farm position on a team, and even then. Moreover, even with perfect CS you're only hitting 6gp10. It'll still take 22+ minutes to break even, which means buying it purely to increase your income isn't remotely worth it. Hence, it's only useful to buy Avarice (and any other gp10 for that matter) if you intend on eventually building one of its upgrades.
12 CS per minute to be better, but 9 CS per minute to be the same.
It just seems like the argument swings back to "only buy it if you plan to upgrade it after a while", which is what all the other GP10's are in season 3, and what all the current GP10's are right now.
Hence, I'm struggling to find the argument that it's suddenly bad. It feels very similar to the other GP10s, just works a bit differently. Any plusses or minuses on it in terms of the base item seem very minor. What GP10 you want will still be based on what stats it gives you and what it builds into, not how much it costs and how much gold efficiency it gives in comparison to other GP10s.
So, the argument is pointless, which is the status quo, etc.
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On December 04 2012 06:58 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 06:53 UniversalSnip wrote:On December 04 2012 06:50 overt wrote:
Does anyone know if Ravenous Hydra or Blade of the Ruined King are going to be better life steal options than BT? I guess it'd largely depend on what champion you're playing and/or how many autos you're getting off and/or how many enemies you're hitting with Hydra passive.
Still just the possibility that I might not be forced to go BT for life steal on melee champions is pretty cool. I'm having a very hard time imagining BT being better than hydra on melees. The main thing is figuring out which melees will prefer Hydra over BT and which melees will actually make use of BotRK. I can't really justify BotRK on too many champions other than people who like on-hit. Hydra seems like it'll be best on auto-attack melees such as Fiora, Tryndamere, or Gangplank but BT still looks like the item of choice for AD casters due to its higher AD value.
I haven't mathed this out, but I doubt you're going to be buying BT within your first few items on ad casters. The fact that you have to buy it is one of the worst things about playing them now.
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Did anyone else notice that the passive on Black Cleaver isn't unique? So you could stack them on one champion or build them across two-three champions, right?
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Looking at the new items, I can't help but think Zephyr will be godlike on Irelia
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I think the BC passive isn't unique but still caps at 3 stacks, so if you have two it's just two stacks per hit instead of one.
I think Zephyr will be good on a LOT of champs. Note that the Tenacity passives don't stack between it and merc treads, so a lot of champs that were forced to get merc treads before will get Zephyr and some other boot.
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On December 04 2012 07:31 Ketara wrote:
I think the BC passive isn't unique but still caps at 3 stacks, so if you have two it's just two stacks per hit instead of one.
Oh yeah, it'll just cap out at four stacks more than likely. Sorry, idiot moment.
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Also, does anyone else have the feeling that Trynd, Yi, Xin and co will become very very good with these new items coming with s3?
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On December 04 2012 07:34 smOOthMayDie wrote:
Also, does anyone else have the feeling that Trynd, Yi, Xin and co will become very very good with these new items coming with s3?
Well hopefully. One of the big objectives of the new items was to make melee AD carries as a "class" more viable. Whether it'll work or not remains to be seen, but it can't hurt. The only think I worry about is the items designed to make those champions stronger will just work well with champs that are already strong, and we still won't see them.
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On December 04 2012 07:31 Ketara wrote:
I think the BC passive isn't unique but still caps at 3 stacks, so if you have two it's just two stacks per hit instead of one.
I think Zephyr will be good on a LOT of champs. Note that the Tenacity passives don't stack between it and merc treads, so a lot of champs that were forced to get merc treads before will get Zephyr and some other boot.
Its not unique and its got 4 max stacks for a total of 30% reduction. The real terror about it is how it synergyze's with hurricane and BotRK.
The biggest things that the s3 items are going to do for better or for worse is going to make playing jungle and support not suck / not reliant (or able to build) gp/10's and will be able to build fun items like tank and damage. I don't really see what solves the ad caster role but the kinds of junglers you'll see will be a lot better to play and watch.
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EPT
