EPT[Patch 1.0.0.151: End of S2] General Discussion - Page 274
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smOOthMayDie
United States997 Posts
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:34 smOOthMayDie wrote: Also, does anyone else have the feeling that Trynd, Yi, Xin and co will become very very good with these new items coming with s3? Trynd and Xin are already viable. Just a lot of people don't run them (except for Darien's Xin). Yi will probably be just as bad as AD Yi already is. It's hard to tell since so many things are changing between the items, masteries, and jungle. I don't think that melee carries will necessarily become very good but I think more teams will give them a chance. Particularly, Xin can be run as a tanky diver in certain comps. Trynd and Fiora are both viable already they just have some questionable lanes (along with some really favorable lanes) and their team fighting hinges on whether or not the enemy team can peel well enough. With the new items, in or against the right team comps, melee carries will definitely be viable. But they already are imo. Just so few people want to run them. (they won't replace ranged ADs though) | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:41 smOOthMayDie wrote: Oh man, getting Spirit of the Elder Lizard on Irelia, coupled with her W will be 75 true damage +66 every 3 seconds, so like every third swing basically. I haven't done the math, but aren't laners paying quite a bit for the Butcher/Rend passive on Spirit Stone items? I mean, nice True Damage may still be pretty worthwhile, but it's pretty obvious that you're not using the Machete portion at all. Edit: except of course for Baron/Dragon/invades, but that's still just opportunity cost. | ||
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Sermokala
United States13828 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:41 smOOthMayDie wrote: Oh man, getting Spirit of the Elder Lizard on Irelia, coupled with her W will be 75 true damage +66 every 3 seconds, so like every third swing basically. Stinger-wits Irelia is whats sexy on the pbe that I've seen at least. | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Grab a GA and then you're probably rather awesome. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:07 TheYango wrote: Anyone with PBE can tell me whether the new DFG has the current one's 750 range or the old one's 650? Nobody mentions it, but thats honestly the reason the revamped manaless DFG felt so much stronger--750 range makes leading off with it 10x easier, whereas the old 650 range DFG required you to often use it as the 2nd or 3rd spell in your combo since it was so short, reducing its practical effectiveness. New DFG Range + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rjohQ.jpg?1) | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:26 Ketara wrote: 12 CS per minute to be better, but 9 CS per minute to be the same. It just seems like the argument swings back to "only buy it if you plan to upgrade it after a while", which is what all the other GP10's are in season 3, and what all the current GP10's are right now. Hence, I'm struggling to find the argument that it's suddenly bad. It feels very similar to the other GP10s, just works a bit differently. Any plusses or minuses on it in terms of the base item seem very minor. What GP10 you want will still be based on what stats it gives you and what it builds into, not how much it costs and how much gold efficiency it gives in comparison to other GP10s. So, the argument is pointless, which is the status quo, etc. I don't think anyone was saying it was bad per se, just someone pointing out it's bad at purely generating gold, just like all the gp10s are currently. The 'bad' part is that for ghostblade and shiv you'd get the other component first most likely, so you won't be holding onto averice that long. Probably less 'bad' and more 'trap' in that people might be too dazzled by the free gold to realize that brutalizer first is way superior of a build. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:26 Ketara wrote: 12 CS per minute to be better, but 9 CS per minute to be the same. It just seems like the argument swings back to "only buy it if you plan to upgrade it after a while", which is what all the other GP10's are in season 3, and what all the current GP10's are right now. Hence, I'm struggling to find the argument that it's suddenly bad. It feels very similar to the other GP10s, just works a bit differently. Any plusses or minuses on it in terms of the base item seem very minor. What GP10 you want will still be based on what stats it gives you and what it builds into, not how much it costs and how much gold efficiency it gives in comparison to other GP10s. So, the argument is pointless, which is the status quo, etc. It's possible the reason why they made gp10s rely on last hits was so people didn't just buy gp10s and then stand back and not fight, or to prevent it from being too strong among people like me who can't last hit for their lives. Or perhaps the bigger reason was to reduce gp10 use on 0 cs supports. Though tbfair I wasn't buying many gp10s anyway, and that game where CLG got a massive lead on M5 and then used their gold on gp10s while M5 used their gold on combat really displayed the weakness of gp10s in this aggressive meta. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
Assuming your target has no MR whatsoever, then the DFG cast + killing your target means DFG does roughly 30% of your target's max health. Comparably, the current DFG requires 300 AP to do the same. but it always works regardless if you kill your target or not and how much physical/true damage were mixed into it to achieve this. I feel that S3 DFG's active is much worse than the current one. Its only saving grace is the CDR. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On December 04 2012 01:17 57 Corvette wrote: Why has Kayle practically disappeared from tournament play? I can't remember any nerfs to her recently, nor can I remember why everyone stopped playing her.. Dyrus was the only one to really try her iirc. I think higher elo players are also way better at dealing with ranged harass than lower elo ones. On December 04 2012 07:54 Sufficiency wrote: Alright. So for the new DFG, assuming that you kill your target 100-0 with magic damage only after casting DFG, you are effectively doing 15-17% of your target's maximum health as true damage (depending on your target's MR) due to the magic damage amplification only. Assuming your target has no MR whatsoever, then the DFG cast + killing your target means DFG does roughly 30% of your target's max health. Comparably, the current DFG requires 300 AP to do the same. but it always works regardless if you kill your target or not and how much physical/true damage were mixed into it to achieve this. I feel that S3 DFG's active is much worse than the current one. Its only saving grace is the CDR. 300 AP is of course still a lot. It's a deathcap, dfg, and runes/masteries. Hopefully the boost to your ally's damage will make it up. Also %max health is a better number than %current health so if you for some reason aren't using it on a squishy but rather a bruiser that is low... The new dfg doesn't look completely outclassed by the old. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:54 Sufficiency wrote: Alright. So for the new DFG, assuming that you kill your target 100-0 with magic damage only after casting DFG, you are effectively doing 15-17% of your target's maximum health as true damage (depending on your target's MR) due to the magic damage amplification only. Assuming your target has no MR whatsoever, then the DFG cast + killing your target means DFG does roughly 30% of your target's max health. Comparably, the current DFG requires 300 AP to do the same. but it always works regardless if you kill your target or not and how much physical/true damage were mixed into it to achieve this. I feel that S3 DFG's active is much worse than the current one. Its only saving grace is the CDR. I think the item is still better as a whole though. Even if you are doing less raw damage with the active, the CDR and 15% of maximum health makes a much more appealing buy earlier in the game (I realize 15% is 15%, but compared to the AP you would have in the early game with the old active it doesn't seem as bad in comparison), unlike now where it's only worth it if you have a lot of AP (300 is a decent amount in the example). Plus the bonus magic damage applies for your entire team, so if you run double AP you both are doing extra damage. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
On December 04 2012 07:48 Ketara wrote: Irelia could totally go Zephyr - Wits End - Blade of the Ruined King, with ninja tabi. Prob not in that order. Grab a GA and then you're probably rather awesome. No Slow from phage proc makes me think TF still better. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
At the current rate, there are 3 CDR + AP items in S3: Grail, Morello's, and DFG. For mana champions Grail is so much better than Morello's that Morello's will never see any kinds of use at all. On the other hand, DFG in S3 is basically a stat-stick; its active is bad, but people will buy it anyway because it's the only reasonable method for a manaless champion to get CDR. On December 04 2012 08:03 MooMooMugi wrote: Idc if DFG's damage is slightly nerfed, it was needed all I bought it for was the CDR mostly Right. This is exactly the problem. The S3 DFG is pretty much a stat-stick. | ||
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Craton
United States17239 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On December 04 2012 08:09 cLutZ wrote: No Slow from phage proc makes me think TF still better. Phage + Zephyr is only 115g more than TF. So if you assume Merc's + TF versus Tabi + Zephyr + Phage: Merc's + TF (5400g): +50 Health +30 AP +10% Crit +200 Mana +25 MR Spellblade Passive Tabi + Zephyr + Phage (5315g): +10 AD +20% Attack Speed +2% Movement Speed +10% CDR +25 Armor Tabi Passive The cost difference is almost negligible. The standard build might do more damage due to TF procs, but the Zephyr build will almost certainly be tankier. I'm not experienced enough with Irelia to be able to discern which would be better. | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
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zodde
Sweden1908 Posts
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