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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 30 2012 01:29 Sandster wrote: I hate PD first on Vayne. But maybe that's why I'm so bad on her. Try PD first with a Nunu support rushing Zekes. Never look back. Also Trist >>>>>>>> Vayne lategame, stick your damage calculations wherever. Range > Everything else in lategame. if vayne does 20 more damage to a bruiser doesn't matter at all, because she's gonna die twice as fast. | ||
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MattBarry
United States4006 Posts
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
It's a pretty retarded rumor, but nobody likes Woong. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
On November 30 2012 01:40 Dandel Ion wrote: Try PD first with a Nunu support rushing Zekes. Never look back. Also Trist >>>>>>>> Vayne lategame, stick your damage calculations wherever. Range > Everything else in lategame. if vayne does 20 more damage to a bruiser doesn't matter at all, because she's gonna die twice as fast. Ok, this is something that I've never understood. Why do you need PD if you already have a Nunu? You already attack fast, so getting a BF sword first would make you do SO much more damage while not relying on consistently auto attacking (and being more exposed). It's like the Vayne in one of my ranked games that went PD->Zeal and did nothing mid game since he couldn't sit there and auto attack. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On November 30 2012 01:46 Sandster wrote: Ok, this is something that I've never understood. Why do you need PD if you already have a Nunu? You already attack fast, so getting a BF sword first would make you do SO much more damage while not relying on consistently auto attacking (and being more exposed). It's like the Vayne in one of my ranked games that went PD->Zeal and did nothing mid game since he couldn't sit there and auto attack. The explanation is "tons of damage" You can also go zeal and not finish PD yet, I do that sometimes. The point is, if you want to outtrade, you need to proc W anyways. Against almost every AD, you lose otherwise, especially if they have a spell they can use for fighting. PD -> zeal is obviously retarded. | ||
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Shiv.
3534 Posts
On November 30 2012 01:28 WhiteDog wrote: What's the "do you play ad" for ? troll. Couple of days ago, he pulled a ''I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who's played Lee top'' I still like Outlaw though, he's edgy, but I'm sure he has a good heart. On November 30 2012 01:46 Sandster wrote: Ok, this is something that I've never understood. Why do you need PD if you already have a Nunu? You already attack fast, so getting a BF sword first would make you do SO much more damage while not relying on consistently auto attacking (and being more exposed). It's like the Vayne in one of my ranked games that went PD->Zeal and did nothing mid game since he couldn't sit there and auto attack. Never got that either. I see why rushing PD is useful if you have basically any other support, but in theory, shouldn't a BF be a gazillion times more useful with nunu W? | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
i had to say you have no experience with lee because my claim looked ridiculous to you all. but it was true | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
Like I said I just don't understand the logic, since I've always believed that, while silver bolts is nice, you still need to actually do damage with your autos to be a real threat. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
If you have the gold though I'd just go BF. | ||
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On November 30 2012 01:35 barbsq wrote: I don't know about comparing with trist specifically (i havn't played any trist recently), but vayne isn't even remotely 'safe' as an adc in the midgame. She absolutely MUST be within 550 range to do damage, which is well within the danger zone of most bruisers. If vayne is behind at all in the midgame, then she just gets absolutely demolished, and it becomes really really hard to do anything unless your support/frontline is working overtime. I didn't say she was "safe", she is way less safe than ez, corki, and the likes who both have +MS in their firstish items, higher range and built in flash like skills. But mobility and positionning is almost everything there is to ad carry, and vayne is, in this regard, better than trist mid game from my point of view mainly because there are no trist who goes for MS items early. That the range is smaller is something, that you can position yourself well enough to be in range with the designated target and out of range of the bruiser, or that you can escape the bruiser grasp after he has done his gap closer skill is something else. I've seen Aphro doing PD/BT almost every time on vayne (and usually making a LW after that), except maybe when he has a nunu support. But don't listen to me, I don't play ad very often. | ||
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AsnSensation
Germany24009 Posts
On November 30 2012 01:46 Sandster wrote: Ok, this is something that I've never understood. Why do you need PD if you already have a Nunu? You already attack fast, so getting a BF sword first would make you do SO much more damage while not relying on consistently auto attacking (and being more exposed). It's like the Vayne in one of my ranked games that went PD->Zeal and did nothing mid game since he couldn't sit there and auto attack. yeah I agree, pd first is good when you dont get the nunu but Id always go IE/BT first with nunu, since we just clarified a few pages ago that W is not thaaaat much dmg, especially early mid game. with non nunu supports pd first is decent but even with 2 dorans there is a small period where you can't last hit under turret like usual ( 1 hit after 2 towershots on melee or 1 hit after range) because you simply lack the raw ad, this is where you have to adapt your cs'ing slightly or you'll miss alot in that small window  | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23345 Posts
doublelift getting caught afk farming is just something that happens sometimes compared to the 99% of the time where he's afk farming and doesn't get caught. I think he's gotten better at not getting caught. You can't blame him for not grouping much when he plays with CLG with like no leadership and they all want to afk farm and he's playing ad carry anyway and hotshot will probably just split push his lane if he doesn't get the farm himself. Pro players being wrong is something that happens a lot. For example wickd theorycrafted the cost effectiveness of ghostblade and tried it a lot and then he realized it didn't work out as well in reality for various reasons. Calling pros "dumb" is just ignorant as fuck and mechanics are just part of game understanding since for example skillshots rely watching opponents movement and predicting them and their reactions if you move closer to them etc etc. Positioning shouldn't count as mechanics either since it's just analysis of the enemies potential and what skill CDs they have up. The only thing that should count as mechanics is last hitting skills and the ability to line skillshots where you want them and flash over walls and shit as far as im concerned. | ||
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Sandster
United States4054 Posts
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OutlaW-
Czech Republic5053 Posts
On November 30 2012 02:08 AsnSensation wrote: yeah I agree, pd first is good when you dont get the nunu but Id always go IE/BT first with nunu, since we just clarified a few pages ago that W is not thaaaat much dmg, especially early mid game. with non nunu supports pd first is decent but even with 2 dorans there is a small period where you can't last hit under turret like usual ( 1 hit after 2 towershots on melee or 1 hit after range) because you simply lack the raw ad, this is where you have to adapt your cs'ing slightly or you'll miss alot in that small window are you sure about this? aren't full ad masteries + 19/11 + 2 dorans enough? | ||
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On November 30 2012 01:55 OutlaW- wrote: just keeping things real i had to say you have no experience with lee because my claim looked ridiculous to you all. but it was true just lol | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Vayne needs 26% bonus MS to hit the MS soft cap of 495 MS with Night Hunter (and 36% to hit it without Night Hunter). PD+Nunu is smooth together because the combination gives you exactly 27% with Blood Boil rank 5. By and large, people underestimate how important the MS softcap is. | ||
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