EPTIf i go for it, i combine it with arpen runes (~+32 arpen) and masteries, and i also build a black cleaver. Everything put together this negates nearly 100 armor on the opponent after 3 basic attacks, which results in true damage on pretty much everything other than tanks. However you lose an item slot, as this requires 2 items as a setup for your armor penetration, whereas LW is just one item. Also the midgame is not as good as one might think for an AD carry when going this path, as the real damage sets in after 3 auto attacks when your attack speed is still pretty low, plus it does not scale that good with abilities that require to build straight AD or do not profit from armor penetration. But on the plus side of things, if your opponent has less than ~220 armor, you are reducing the armor more than LW would, and you help other physical damage based chars on your team to deal increased damage.
[Patch 1.0.0.150: Shadow Isles] General Discussion - Page 29
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Cirqueenflex
499 Posts
If i go for it, i combine it with arpen runes (~+32 arpen) and masteries, and i also build a black cleaver. Everything put together this negates nearly 100 armor on the opponent after 3 basic attacks, which results in true damage on pretty much everything other than tanks. However you lose an item slot, as this requires 2 items as a setup for your armor penetration, whereas LW is just one item. Also the midgame is not as good as one might think for an AD carry when going this path, as the real damage sets in after 3 auto attacks when your attack speed is still pretty low, plus it does not scale that good with abilities that require to build straight AD or do not profit from armor penetration. But on the plus side of things, if your opponent has less than ~220 armor, you are reducing the armor more than LW would, and you help other physical damage based chars on your team to deal increased damage. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35173 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Crit/crit damage are stats that bruisers very rarely buy (only incidental crit via Triforce), and which factor insanely heavily into the multiplicative damage equation--which is why ranged ADs outstrip melees in damage dealing ability so much. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
What I can say, though, is that Season 3 has a lot of changes in store for assassins. Armor penetration is going to play nice with itself: % pen is going back before flat pen, meaning Brutalizer + Last Whisper just got a lot sexier, and overall, Pantheon and Talon are getting a lot happier. Flat resists got a bit more expensive, so they're going to do a better job against armor-splashing adc/mage/supports as well. Overall, it's going to be a nice change for the assassin role. Nerfing crit doesn't really help assassins do more damage. What confuses me is why they're trying to buff assassins through fundamental mechanics changes (or even at all). | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
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Diamond
United States10796 Posts
 . We got REALLY behind (the AP Soraka with Boots3 did not help much) and were still able to turtle for 20+ mins. Thought there were trying to eliminate endless turtling in TT? | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
It is the League of draven after all. Inb4 Draven 1stpick1stban Arp quints reds brutalizer last whisper 1 shot everything | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
Dorello's Sinister Book Cost: 2330 Kage's Lucky Pick + Amplifying Tome (combine cost: 1130) +75 AP +20% cooldown reduction Unique active: Inflict target champion with grievous wounds for 8 seconds (20s cooldown) I don't get why people feel like they're not allowed to build mana or mana regen on manaless champs. I don't think CDR should be easier to itemize on manaless champs since CDs are pretty much the only thing they have to manage anyway. | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
Inb4 Locolift slashfic. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On October 26 2012 04:34 thenexusp wrote: Would you build this item on a manaless champ that scaled off AP? Dorello's Sinister Book Cost: 2330 Kage's Lucky Pick + Amplifying Tome (combine cost: 1130) +75 AP +20% cooldown reduction Unique active: Inflict target champion with grievous wounds for 8 seconds (20s cooldown) I don't get why people feel like they're not allowed to build mana or mana regen on manaless champs. I don't think CDR should be easier to itemize on manaless champs since CDs are pretty much the only thing they have to manage anyway. What I don't like with this is the active. It's fucking useless considering every mid (or almost) pick ignite, especially those manaless champion such as katarina. Or maybe I'm just bad, but I don't feel the urge to use that kind of active and it makes me think that this item is just not good enough. For ap, cdr, and magic resist, I prefer picking Athene's Unholy Grail. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
Dorello's Sinister Piece Of Paper Cost: 2330 Kage's Lucky Pick + Amplifying Tome (combine cost: 1130) +75 AP +20% cooldown reduction It costs less than Athene's, you get more CDR, and kage's is part of the build path so it doesn't even cost as much as it looks! | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 26 2012 04:34 thenexusp wrote: Would you build this item on a manaless champ that scaled off AP? Dorello's Sinister Book Cost: 2330 Kage's Lucky Pick + Amplifying Tome (combine cost: 1130) +75 AP +20% cooldown reduction Unique active: Inflict target champion with grievous wounds for 8 seconds (20s cooldown) I don't get why people feel like they're not allowed to build mana or mana regen on manaless champs. I don't think CDR should be easier to itemize on manaless champs since CDs are pretty much the only thing they have to manage anyway. That item is fairly bad. I understand the point you're trying to make, but practically speaking, that's not an item I'd want to buy. It gives 1500 gold worth of AP, so you're paying 830 gold for 20% CDR (that's a worse price point for CDR than pretty much every other CDR item in the game), and a pretty low-value active. It's questionable if the item is even cost-effective, and even if it were, you have to do much better than break-even cost-effectiveness to justify a 2300 gold item that doesn't build into anything. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
If the champion doesn't need mana, suddenly Morello's is the best choice for CDR. So the question is what's giving you more overall damage, the active on DFG or the 20% CDR on Morello's? And if somebody says yeah but I'm running Ignite so there's no point, you don't HAVE to run Ignite. You could run Exhaust, or something crazy like Teleport. I really like taking Teleport on mids. | ||
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pfff
Belgium1352 Posts
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 26 2012 04:55 Ketara wrote: The issue is not is Morello's great, but at this point if you want CDR on an AP char, your choices are either Morello's or Athenes. Or Nashor's Tooth I guess. If the champion doesn't need mana, suddenly Morello's is the best choice for CDR. So the question is what's giving you more overall damage, the active on DFG or the 20% CDR on Morello's? And if somebody says yeah but I'm running Ignite so there's no point, you don't HAVE to run Ignite. You could run Exhaust, or something crazy like Teleport. I really like taking Teleport on mids. Why is it set in stone that you have to get your CDR from an item that also grants AP? The lack of other CDR+AP options doesn't magically make Morello's on manaless champs more cost-effective. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On October 26 2012 05:01 WhiteDog wrote: Am I the only one who is downloading a fucking two hour patch ? -.- Took about 20 minutes for me. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 26 2012 04:58 thenexusp wrote: Really what I want is for people to stop pointing at item stats, saying "this champ wastes these stats so this item is obviously bad to build" without evaluating the item as a whole. I think it might be funny if Phantom Dancer got "+10 energy regen/5 sec" tacked onto it and see how many fewer people buy it as a result It's all a matter of cost-effectiveness math. If the item is still cost-effective with wasted stats taken into account, then people will still buy the item. Look at Triforce for example--the majority of it's users don't need all the stats, but the item is cost-effective enough to make up for it. Shurelya's is another example of this--one or both regen stats tends to be superfluous, but the other stats and active are game-changing enough to necessitate the item anyway. As I said, Morello's is not an item that is cost-effective if you're ignoring the mana regeneration. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
On October 26 2012 05:00 TheYango wrote: Why is it set in stone that you have to get your CDR from an item that also grants AP? The lack of other CDR+AP options doesn't magically make Morello's on manaless champs more cost-effective. What would you get that's more cost effective? Shurelya's? Soul Shroud? Frozen Heart? The first has a lot of mana regen on it, the second only gives 10% CDR, and the third is likely already being picked up by the top or the jungler and also has a lot of mana on it. | ||
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