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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On September 29 2012 06:39 overt wrote: S3 is going to require teams to have a sub iirc. So they needed a sub anyways TSM should get TRM as their S3 sub. He looks pretty good on his streams. (!?) | ||
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HughMyron
297 Posts
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VirgilSC2
United States6151 Posts
I'm at just under 1100 Elo right now, and I feel like most of the time 5 of the 6 players actively farming hit a large majority of their CS. I almost never see these "40 cs at 20 minutes" AD carries or anything you guys claim to see. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On September 29 2012 07:25 VirgilSC2 wrote: Having read the Elo Hell discussion, I feel really confused. I'm at just under 1100 Elo right now, and I feel like most of the time 5 of the 6 players actively farming hit a large majority of their CS. I almost never see these "40 cs at 20 minutes" AD carries or anything you guys claim to see. The thing someone always told me about something never happening to you(like getting a ticket blah blah) is "It'll happen when you think its never going to" so dont worry you'll see it. | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
On September 29 2012 07:25 HughMyron wrote: Hmmm, debating between Movespeed and AP Quints on Evelynn...with no gap closer, MS is tempting, but Evelynn scales well with AP, and those quints help her lasthit too. W is enough movespeed, no? | ||
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epoc
Finland1190 Posts
On September 29 2012 07:25 VirgilSC2 wrote: Having read the Elo Hell discussion, I feel really confused. I'm at just under 1100 Elo right now, and I feel like most of the time 5 of the 6 players actively farming hit a large majority of their CS. I almost never see these "40 cs at 20 minutes" AD carries or anything you guys claim to see. I think that's when you get well below 1k elo | ||
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Bladeorade
United States1898 Posts
He is still SUPER strong. I have gotta say I prefer maxing Q much more than W now. Reducing cooldown and higher damage for burst is much preferred for me top. I generally go QWEQQR Q>W>E The damage reduction and Armor/MR reduction on W made me try Q more and it really fits my play style of get max fury -> bush jump or just engage and QQWE back off and regen fury/farm. Allows you to trade quickly effectively and secure your disengage. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On September 29 2012 07:42 Cloud9157 wrote: I hope they keep making these champions with silly kits or no mana costs or even a combination of both. It makes perfect sense after all. The new champ is quite easily oom still, only the first spell cost 25 mana, the w is 60/70/80/90/100 mana, the e is 50 mana and the ult is 100 mana. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On September 29 2012 07:44 WhiteDog wrote: The new champ is quite easily oom still, only the first spell cost 25 mana, the w is 60/70/80/90/100 mana, the e is 50 mana and the ult is 100 mana. Was mainly referencing Darius and Rengar, but just took a look at new dood's mana costs. Seems like nothing, but I did see that 100 at max rank w. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On September 29 2012 07:48 Cloud9157 wrote: Was mainly referencing Darius and Rengar, but just took a look at new dood's mana costs. Seems like nothing, but I did see that 100 at max rank w. Rengar is completly retarded yeah, I don't even understand how you can balance a champion that has a no mana high sustain high mobility profile. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On September 29 2012 07:53 WhiteDog wrote: Rengar is completly retarded yeah, I don't even understand how you can balance a champion that has a no mana high sustain high mobility profile. This is basically a paraphrase of Morello, talking about Vlad, 4-6 months ago. They made Rengar anyways. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On September 29 2012 07:13 xes wrote: TSM should get TRM as their S3 sub. He looks pretty good on his streams. (!?) Due to costs and such teams are likely going to look at getting subs who can fill multiple roles well rather than someone who can only play one role. TRM is likely only going to be able to fill top lane consistently well (and considering how little he wants to properly practice and how content he seems to be in his new life I dunno if he'd even accept an offer to join TSM as a sub). Personally I think that if he wasn't so young Pobelter would be a good sub option considering he's pro-level caliber at two roles (top/mid) and I think Atlanta would make a good sub for a team (he might not be "amazing" but he's played nearly every role in a pro setting). Also, considering that CLG can't sponsor CLG.Black in season 3 I wouldn't be surprised if teams try to snipe one or two of their players as subs. WildTurtle might be a good pick up for some teams too considering he has LAN experience and can play multiple roles. To be honest, I kind of dislike the sub rule. I understand the basic reasoning behind it, Riot doesn't want teams to just bring in any random person for a tournament if one of their players can't make it. But it's going to make finding a good sub very difficult. What happens if TSM picks up TRM as their sub and TheOddOne can't make it to an event? Or Xpecial can't make it? Is TRM going to be able to fill in as the team's jungler or support? You'll have to find subs that are really really well rounded especially since most teams will only pick up one player. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On September 29 2012 07:44 WhiteDog wrote: The new champ is quite easily oom still, only the first spell cost 25 mana, the w is 60/70/80/90/100 mana, the e is 50 mana and the ult is 100 mana. What kind of game are we playing where sub-100 mana costs like this aren't considered low? The selection of mana/mana regen on runes/items should produce meaningful changes in gameplay for any mana using champion. If any mana-using champ is such that you would never consider running any of those on them, then their mana management is too trivial. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On September 29 2012 07:53 WhiteDog wrote: Rengar is completly retarded yeah, I don't even understand how you can balance a champion that has a no mana high sustain high mobility profile. And yet vlad can lose lane pretty hard anyways. On September 29 2012 01:53 xes wrote: With all these dump gapclosing high burst champions, is it pretty much required to play carries with CC or reposition? I've always felt this way. It's not like gap closing champs or flash didn't exist before. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
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bmn
886 Posts
On September 29 2012 06:47 azndsh wrote: Ok I'll concede that for big disparities that taking the mean isn't particularly meaningful. A difference of 100-200 should be fine. The other issue is that we really have no idea what their dd is in their elo formula (assumed its the standard 400. Is a 1600 vs 1200 team really a 10:1 favorite?) In any case, the point is that a 100-200 point advantage means you don't actually change the result of games all that often. So rarely that it's not really noticeable without carefully looking at a whole lot of data points and not even statistically distinguishable from luck for small sample sizes. Using the mean is simply not justified. Even if it were, we don't know the constants Riot uses when determining the ELO. Even if we did, that still doesn't tell us how ELO gaps actually change team behavior. We have nothing to base specific predictions (10:1?) on, so let's stop using meaningless numbers. Your claim that playing 100-200 ELO below true level is almost indistinguishable from luck has no basis. If you look at both examples I gave, the match history shows very clearly positive win rates for both players even as they approached their true ELO. I do not know how it changes across ELO ranges, but I can assure you that at 1200-1300, playing with people 150-200 above or below my ELO made our skill discrepancy evident in most games. Remember, yoj don't have to be much worse than your opponent to lose, many small differences quickly add up. (This is easy to test in practice.) I think everybody agrees that your win rates at 100 below true ELO are lower than at 500 below, but I think you're really underestimating how quickly it converges in reality. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On September 29 2012 08:03 TheYango wrote: What kind of game are we playing where sub-100 mana costs like this aren't considered low? The selection of mana/mana regen on runes/items should produce meaningful changes in gameplay for any mana using champion. If any mana-using champ is such that you would never consider running any of those on them, then their mana management is too trivial. Depends on the position you play Kha'Zix, but in the jungle you can't spam if you want mana to gank unless you've got blue, that's my point (because W give health, and is the highest cost spell he has, and Q is on a 2s cooldown). Also no one is going to take mana regen rune or template points for a champion that is dedicated to kill others, it's just better to take raw damage or mibility. Also vlad is still different from rengar, less mobile, less sustain, they tried to give draw back to spamming spell with vlad (little health cost) while the ferocity is basically an incentive for player to spam. Also that jump from the bush. | ||
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Agnosthar
631 Posts
On September 29 2012 06:30 Navi wrote: Get ahri if you want to learn a standard ap with above avg mobility and skillcap Diana to abuse I haven't seen a lot of Diana in solo queue since she got nerfed. Is she still that strong that it's considered abusing to pick her? I'm looking to pick up either Ahri or Diana, but I've been put off by Diana being a melee AP and I see Ahri charms winning games outright. Would anyone mind giving me some tips on which match ups Diana excels at, and who I would want to avoid playing against with her? That way I can just learn the AP that gives me the most counter picking options etc. | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
On September 29 2012 08:19 Agnosthar wrote: I haven't seen a lot of Diana in solo queue since she got nerfed. Is she still that strong that it's considered abusing to pick her? I'm looking to pick up either Ahri or Diana, but I've been put off by Diana being a melee AP and I see Ahri charms winning games outright. Would anyone mind giving me some tips on which match ups Diana excels at, and who I would want to avoid playing against with her? That way I can just learn the AP that gives me the most counter picking options etc. As Diana, avoid Ryze. Although you can still do well in that if you just shove with Q. Most match-ups in mid are just skill match-ups and they usually become farm match-ups after the champions get leevels and can instaclear. If you have trouble with a match-up run health regen quints to be able to farm out the lane. Ahri has no real weaknesses, she has a bit of everything and excels against kiteable melees and skillshot champs. | ||
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