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On September 08 2012 03:59 TheYango wrote:
I mean, if you had to choose between IE+PD+Boots+BT+2xDoran's and IE+PD+Boots+Exec's+BF+Doran's, I don't think having the Exec's is better. And the latter build caps out 1 slot sooner.
Obviously having an immediately combined item can contribute to an immediate teamfight timing, but there are much smoother ways to do that at that point in the game.
What I'm trying to argue is that having IE PD Boots Exec 2x dorans - when you're planning on following up with LW and GA is going to give you a smoother power curve for the next 5k gold than IE PD Boots vamp BFsword dorans, which delays the LW and GA by quite a lot. The GA timing is becoming pretty important, and the LW timing is too.
Also at this point in the game (post IEPD is pretty much lategame for an ADC) farm can get pretty scarce (again, something you need to judge on a situational basis - maybe you CAN farm towards the bigger item without problems)
If you're building another BF sword item as your third big item, don't get an exec. Get it when your third and 4th big items are NOT going to be BT, but you want the lifesteal upgrade beyond vamp scepter.
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United States47024 Posts
If you need GA, get GA 900 gold sooner and don't bother upgrading Vamp yet. If you need your lifesteal upgrade, then get BT.
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On September 08 2012 03:48 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:45 Alaric wrote:
Jayce E retarded as fuck and bypass/cancels Flash. It's got a slow animation so after you flash, if he already started the swing, then you'll get knocked in the direction you'd have gone before the flash.
I guess I'd be fine if it only really knockbacked you the given distance (well, kinda fine, the knockback is hella fucking strong with its 600 units, if he knockbacks you and run backwards you can't use a gapcloser to get him unless you "cheat" with a wall).
But I flashed, and was transported back to the point where I would have landed had I not flashed.
1000 units knockback. Give me a fucking break, I know it's not limited to Jayce but the champ is already so fucking retarded to play against as is...
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I assume you're still going to sell your exec calling for a BT eventually right? So all it really means to get an exec calling is that your end build is 405g slower, but you get this mid-late game power boost that you might need, situationally?
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On September 08 2012 04:10 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:48 obesechicken13 wrote:On September 08 2012 03:45 Alaric wrote:
Jayce E retarded as fuck and bypass/cancels Flash. It's got a slow animation so after you flash, if he already started the swing, then you'll get knocked in the direction you'd have gone before the flash. I guess I'd be fine if it only really knockbacked you the given distance (well, kinda fine, the knockback is hella fucking strong with its 600 units, if he knockbacks you and run backwards you can't use a gapcloser to get him unless you "cheat" with a wall). But I flashed, and was transported back to the point where I would have landed had I not flashed. 1000 units knockback. Give me a fucking break, I know it's not limited to Jayce but the champ is already so fucking retarded to play against as is...
So when was the last time you flashed away just before skarner ulted you? Mechanics in LoL work like this. It might not be ideal but its the way it is and has been forever.
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United States23745 Posts
On September 08 2012 03:55 Celestial wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:44 onlywonderboy wrote:On September 08 2012 03:35 TheKefka wrote:On September 08 2012 03:22 onlywonderboy wrote:On September 08 2012 03:12 SoulSever wrote:
On what champs is exec's calling good and what's the timing to buy it? Never sure if it's after IE, before PD or after PD I would say this is probably one of the best situational items in the game. What I mean is you won't build it every game, but when you build it at the right time, it works very well. The times I will build it is usually after IE if my lane is having trouble with a sustain support. The heal reduction is on a super short cooldown (lasts 8 seconds with a 20 second cooldown, so effectively 12 seconds.) and can catch a lot of people off guard if they aren't carefully watching your items. The other time I build it is near the end of the game when the next team fight might decide the fate of the match, but I don't have the time or money to get a fully stacked BT. It has the highest lifesteal next to that stacked BT, so it can make the difference between life and death in a team fight. No.....don't listen to him.Building a Exec's is the worst idea on a ad carry.The active has like 350 range or something shitty like that and that's almost half of a auto attack range for a ad.Means you purposefully have to come really close and really commit to an attack.Besides even if you do play like that in lane the item will become shitty as you will get more than enough crit from a PD and IE,also if you go in near someone latter in the game to get a 350 range active on you are putting yourself into a retarded situation in which a carry should never be.If you want more life leech buy a vamp scepter it's like 450 gold.. TL:Dr every stat you get you can get from something else which will help you out more and you're putting yourself into a shitty position just to get the active off which means you either have to commit or you get fucked.Seriously it's just a waste of gold,buy a Bf sword instead. You make some solid points. Buying it in lane is risky. The reason it has worked for me is because I'm able to get some kills and snowball that into better items quicker. Granted, I don't play ranked so I can see it not working at higher elos. So I will concede on that point. I still think it's useful as a late game item when you don't have the money for BT. The 8% increase in lifesteal is pretty noticeable. If you're relying on the difference of 8% lifesteal to make or break your fight you may need to reevaluate your positioning as an adc and perhaps how the teamfight proceeded in the first place. Almost always unless its a straight duel positioning will win more often than not.
I guess it depends on your skill than. I'm not the best ADC so the little extra room for margin of error is really nice. But if your mechanics are good enough there are other options.
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If you need the lifesteal boost from execs calling, wriggles is a much better buy. As far as the active go, you should of picked up ignite at champ select if you see a lifesteal/spellvamp heavy comp.
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On September 08 2012 04:07 TheYango wrote:
If you need GA, get GA 900 gold sooner and don't bother upgrading Vamp yet. If you need your lifesteal upgrade, then get BT.
getting a faster GA is better. more resets = more use of the 5min timer.
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On September 08 2012 03:59 TheYango wrote:
I mean, if you had to choose between IE+PD+Boots+BT+2xDoran's and IE+PD+Boots+Exec's+BF+Doran's, I don't think having the Exec's is better. And the latter build caps out 1 slot sooner.
Obviously having an immediately combined item can contribute to an immediate teamfight timing, but there are much smoother ways to do that at that point in the game.
That's not really a good situation to compare since IE+PD+Boots+BT+2xDoran's is probably worse than IE+PD+Boots+LW+Vamp+Doran's, since even with a fully stacked BT (assuming 120 AD from base+runes+masteries and 6 flat + 10% apen from masteries) the latter wins above ~140.1 armor (and at just 85.4 armor with 20 stacks on BT and at 46.7 armor with no stacks on BT).
At this point IE+PD+LW+Exec's+Doran is clearly superior in damage to IE+PD+Boots+BT+2xDoran's and requires only 402g more. Of course, this is more about BT being a bad choice relative to LW rather than Exec's being all that great, and I'd also argue that a second PD after IE+PD is also a better choice than BT as far as autoattacks are concerned.
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On September 08 2012 04:40 fasdaf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:59 TheYango wrote:
I mean, if you had to choose between IE+PD+Boots+BT+2xDoran's and IE+PD+Boots+Exec's+BF+Doran's, I don't think having the Exec's is better. And the latter build caps out 1 slot sooner.
Obviously having an immediately combined item can contribute to an immediate teamfight timing, but there are much smoother ways to do that at that point in the game. That's not really a good situation to compare since IE+PD+Boots+BT+2xDoran's is probably worse than IE+PD+Boots+LW+Vamp+Doran's, since even with a fully stacked BT (assuming 120 AD from base+runes+masteries and 6 flat + 10% apen from masteries) the latter wins above ~134.1 armor. At this point IE+PD+LW+Exec's+Doran is clearly superior in damage to IE+PD+Boots+BT+2xDoran's and requires only 402g more. Of course, this is more about BT being a bad choice relative to LW rather than Exec's being all that great, and I'd also argue that a second PD after IE+PD is also a better choice than BT as far as autoattacks are concerned.
Corki/Graves/Ez are core AD's that are casting heavy, so BT's better choice than 2nd PD.
2nd PD is pretty op'd on Kog.
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your item choice on AD will never lose you the game, it would be like the 5th or 6th reason.
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On September 08 2012 04:40 fasdaf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:59 TheYango wrote:
I mean, if you had to choose between IE+PD+Boots+BT+2xDoran's and IE+PD+Boots+Exec's+BF+Doran's, I don't think having the Exec's is better. And the latter build caps out 1 slot sooner.
Obviously having an immediately combined item can contribute to an immediate teamfight timing, but there are much smoother ways to do that at that point in the game. That's not really a good situation to compare since IE+PD+Boots+BT+2xDoran's is probably worse than IE+PD+Boots+LW+Vamp+Doran's, since even with a fully stacked BT (assuming 120 AD from base+runes+masteries and 6 flat + 10% apen from masteries) the latter wins above ~140.1 armor (and at just 85.4 armor with 20 stacks on BT and at 46.7 armor with no stacks on BT). At this point IE+PD+LW+Exec's+Doran is clearly superior in damage to IE+PD+Boots+BT+2xDoran's and requires only 402g more. Of course, this is more about BT being a bad choice relative to LW rather than Exec's being all that great, and I'd also argue that a second PD after IE+PD is also a better choice than BT as far as autoattacks are concerned.
I wouldn't be surprised if BT was bad at pure damage since lifesteal isn't a part of the calculation for pure damage anyway. But lifesteal is still pretty important.
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On September 08 2012 02:17 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 01:40 Alaric wrote:On September 08 2012 01:28 WaveofShadow wrote:
The fuck can't you guys just use the same damn name for everything?
Standard name already taken on TL. :< other way around. name already taken on LoL. I would never have chosen Mogwai as my primary forum name if I had realized how fucking difficult it would be to get in popular games.
Don't even talk to me about choosing a name that is hard to get in ... any game(ha @ just popular games!).
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+ Show Spoiler +okay I couldn't resist: wei2missthepointman
For Ezreal's and Graves' spells, LW+vamp easily outdamages BT while costing 498g less (accounting for selling one Doran's Blade), which makes LW and NOT BT the best choice. Only Corki's true damage passive + magic damage ult really benefit from the AD of BT but not LW's armor penetration.
Basically there's no reason to want to spend 498 more gold and then kill 25 more minions to do as much damage while autoattacking to 100 armor targets as you could by going for LW.
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what are the best Chinese and TW LoL sources?
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On September 08 2012 04:24 wei2coolman wrote:
If you need the lifesteal boost from execs calling, wriggles is a much better buy. As far as the active go, you should of picked up ignite at champ select if you see a lifesteal/spellvamp heavy comp.
I'm pretty much of the opinion that wriggles is a trash buy, and Executioner's calling is the better buy of the two. Wriggles is only 2% lifesteal over a vamp scepter.
On September 08 2012 04:10 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:48 obesechicken13 wrote:On September 08 2012 03:45 Alaric wrote:
Jayce E retarded as fuck and bypass/cancels Flash. It's got a slow animation so after you flash, if he already started the swing, then you'll get knocked in the direction you'd have gone before the flash. I guess I'd be fine if it only really knockbacked you the given distance (well, kinda fine, the knockback is hella fucking strong with its 600 units, if he knockbacks you and run backwards you can't use a gapcloser to get him unless you "cheat" with a wall). But I flashed, and was transported back to the point where I would have landed had I not flashed. 1000 units knockback. Give me a fucking break, I know it's not limited to Jayce but the champ is already so fucking retarded to play against as is...
I dunno, I still can't be as mad about it as I get when I flash away from Skarner, anticipating the ulti, but get rubber banded back onto him as he drags me away and his team has their way with me.
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When most people opt for a third BF sword item over LW its either because they're ahead of the enemy tanks in items or their own kill targets are relatively easy to get to. Watch Curse v TSM at the regionals and notice that both chaox/cop build the same and are able to AA the highly vulnerable Morg and Ryze. LW wouldnt have been optimal there since they could rely on their team to deal with the tanks while they focused elsewhere. Most of the time a build is used for sometimes a specific reason and hardly ever pointless.
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On September 08 2012 05:02 fasdaf wrote:+ Show Spoiler +okay I couldn't resist: wei2missthepointman For Ezreal's and Graves' spells, LW+vamp easily outdamages BT while costing 498g less (accounting for selling one Doran's Blade), which makes LW and NOT BT the best choice. Only Corki's true damage passive + magic damage ult really benefit from the AD of BT but not LW's armor penetration. Basically there's no reason to want to spend 498 more gold and then kill 25 more minions to do as much damage while autoattacking to 100 armor targets as you could by going for LW.
Do people really undervalue BT's increased lifesteal, and AD/life steal stacks from it's passive that much? O.o
Armor on Wrigs is alrightish. I personally don't really see a time where I'd value Exec's over Wrigs, they fill a similar niche for ad carries (need increase lifesteal and some 2ndry stats, but don't have enough for BT, and next fight is the last fight).
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Let's just say that I'm heavily biaised against Jayce and rage too easily when playing against him (and possibly level 2 ganked on top of that).
I'd want to take my go-to dunker Panth to let out steam but I'm pretty sure that even him loses to Jayce, and handily at that. T_T
Also I'm bad at poking till kill range with champs like Viktor. And either 1st pick or last pick in ~75% of my games, no middle road. ôo
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United States47024 Posts
On September 08 2012 05:05 zulu_nation8 wrote:
what are the best Chinese and TW LoL sources?
WE's team site has decent information about the team, though it's inter-mixed with DotA/WC3 stuff. It should also link to their Youku page and Sina streams as well (though I haven't checked whether any of the WE players still stream actively, and Sina is really buggy for me). IG also has a team page, but theirs hasn't been updated in forever (still lists Tabe and Wh1t3zz on their roster).
Chinese Tournaments are generally broadcast through Gamefy/GTV/PLU (just like DotA is), and the VODs generally show up on their respective Youku channels (search GTV and SiTV on Youku for GTV and Gamefy's Youku channels, don't remember PLU's). I think StarsWar was broadcast by MarsTV but I don't know as much about them.
General written coverage can be found on SGamer and Replays.net. There are also some other coverage sources like 178.com, but I haven't followed Chinese written coverage that extensively because my written Chinese is not so good. I only know SGamer and Replays.net are reliable because of the quality of their DotA coverage.
Taiwan/SEA coverage I've pretty much followed all through Garena.
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EPT
