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On September 08 2012 03:22 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:12 SoulSever wrote:
On what champs is exec's calling good and what's the timing to buy it? Never sure if it's after IE, before PD or after PD I would say this is probably one of the best situational items in the game. What I mean is you won't build it every game, but when you build it at the right time, it works very well. The times I will build it is usually after IE if my lane is having trouble with a sustain support. The heal reduction is on a super short cooldown (lasts 8 seconds with a 20 second cooldown, so effectively 12 seconds.) and can catch a lot of people off guard if they aren't carefully watching your items. The other time I build it is near the end of the game when the next team fight might decide the fate of the match, but I don't have the time or money to get a fully stacked BT. It has the highest lifesteal next to that stacked BT, so it can make the difference between life and death in a team fight.
No.....don't listen to him.Building a Exec's is the worst idea on a ad carry.The active has like 350 range or something shitty like that and that's almost half of a auto attack range for a ad.Means you purposefully have to come really close and really commit to an attack.Besides even if you do play like that in lane the item will become shitty as you will get more than enough crit from a PD and IE,also if you go in near someone latter in the game to get a 350 range active on you are putting yourself into a retarded situation in which a carry should never be.If you want more life leech buy a vamp scepter it's like 450 gold..
TL:Dr every stat you get you can get from something else which will help you out more and you're putting yourself into a shitty position just to get the active off which means you either have to commit or you get fucked.Seriously it's just a waste of gold,buy a Bf sword instead.
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On September 08 2012 03:23 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:18 AUGcodon wrote:
I dunno about exec. If you go IE,PD,LW, GA. It's a pretty good gapcloser before you can afford a BT. Your use of the term gapcloser here is ambiguous and problematic. Also, you might as well just sit on a Vamp Scepter if you're already at your 5 item point. Execution's Calling is a crutch for when your team fails champion select and doesn't have enough Ignites. It's great if you have bruiser jungler who doesn't care about the slot inefficiency, or in some rare cases top lane where you want to counter an enemy champion's sustain. If they shaved 250g or so off the combine cost it might be more popular.
Disagree. It's a "well I have this vamp scepter and I want more lifesteal mid-late. I already have IE, probably PD - at this point exec calling's 15 crit is pretty juicy and the lifesteal is the reason you're buying it.
It's pretty damn cheap - 1300 gold (450 of that you already have spent on the Vamp Scepter.) so for 750 gold, you get 8% more lifesteal (already have 10%) and 15% crit... and a passive dot and active healing debuff that I'm willing to write off as negligible (you might use the active when Vladimir or Hecarim dives you or something? It's not why you're buying this.)
When you already have IE and any reasonable amount of +AS (Nunu, PD, whatever), crit is THE most cost-effective DPS stat you can buy. [post IE, with lethality mastery]. Exec calling has a really cost-efficient mix of Lifesteal (the situational part - you have decided you want more lifesteal, but BT is expensive) and crit (this part is what makes it appealing and cost-effective.
Yes, it's slot inefficient. If you have the money, you could be going for a BT instead. But it's cost effective, and when you're sitting on IE PD Vamp, you may want a cheap lifesteal boost before working on GA or LW (or get that GA or LW and then get a small lifesteal/DPS boost before the game ends)
TLDR - Post-IE PD, it's a cheap and efficient lifesteal+DPS boost.
There's also the bit where it works a bit better on ADs that use fewer spells for their DPS (Kog, Cait, etc)
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United States47024 Posts
On September 08 2012 03:40 sylverfyre wrote:
Yes, it's slot inefficient. If you have the money, you could be going for a BT instead. But it's cost effective, and when you're sitting on IE PD Vamp, you may want a cheap lifesteal boost before working on GA or LW (or get that GA or LW and then get a small lifesteal/DPS boost before the game ends)
TLDR - Post-IE PD, it's a cheap and efficient lifesteal+DPS boost.
There's also the bit where it works a bit better on ADs that use fewer spells for their DPS (Kog, Cait, etc)
If you don't care about slot-inefficiency, you might as well be buying lategame DBlades.
Having two major core items filling slots is exactly the point in the game where slot-efficiency starts to take over instead of cost-efficiency.
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On September 08 2012 03:31 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:20 Dandel Ion wrote:On September 08 2012 03:10 TheKefka wrote:On September 08 2012 03:07 Shiragaku wrote:
Wow...the DotA guys are still up in arms. So can someone provide a summary what has happened and make sure we have things right and not exaggeration. Someone made a summary on reditt just look it up,let's not do it here again. On September 08 2012 03:16 AUGcodon wrote:
It started with Incontrol stating with a big disclaimer that Riot was going to force teams choose either LOL or Dota.
This statement was promptly denied by Riot/
Next day, Sirscoot on LO3 stated that Riot had been talking to teams to implement the ideas. But various organizations including Dignitas, Complexity, EG persuaded Riot not to.
This is where it gets confusing. We don't know who Scoots source really is. Did he directly talk to Riot when he was interested in a LoL team? And if so, Did Riot state their plan for the exclusion during this talk?
Complexity only statement corresponded to Sir Scoots but again it is unknown if Riot had directly talked to complexity about the exclusion deal.
Where the real wrench is Dignitas Odee's statement. He stated he heard rumors about the exclusion deal but did not approach Riot until after Pax. He then stated Riot denied the rumor of exclusion deal. So at the very least, we know that Riot had not talked about the exclusion deal to Dignitas.
The problem was that Dignitas was suppose to be one of the orginal source for Slasher who was also on LO3. Slasher stated Diginitas would be able to corroborate their story which turned out to be false.
And now Scoots just reaffirmed his earlier statement, but nothing new was added.
So, basically clusterfuck for everyone involved and no one looks good as usual. T.T There is a summary in the thread about this in the dota forums. Just don't read anything after the OP, you might get aids My friend read a GD Discussion thread once. He's now terminally ill.
Yeah, forums tend to do that kinda thing.
My guinea pig died from running into the SC2 strategy forum
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United States23745 Posts
On September 08 2012 03:35 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:22 onlywonderboy wrote:On September 08 2012 03:12 SoulSever wrote:
On what champs is exec's calling good and what's the timing to buy it? Never sure if it's after IE, before PD or after PD I would say this is probably one of the best situational items in the game. What I mean is you won't build it every game, but when you build it at the right time, it works very well. The times I will build it is usually after IE if my lane is having trouble with a sustain support. The heal reduction is on a super short cooldown (lasts 8 seconds with a 20 second cooldown, so effectively 12 seconds.) and can catch a lot of people off guard if they aren't carefully watching your items. The other time I build it is near the end of the game when the next team fight might decide the fate of the match, but I don't have the time or money to get a fully stacked BT. It has the highest lifesteal next to that stacked BT, so it can make the difference between life and death in a team fight. No.....don't listen to him.Building a Exec's is the worst idea on a ad carry.The active has like 350 range or something shitty like that and that's almost half of a auto attack range for a ad.Means you purposefully have to come really close and really commit to an attack.Besides even if you do play like that in lane the item will become shitty as you will get more than enough crit from a PD and IE,also if you go in near someone latter in the game to get a 350 range active on you are putting yourself into a retarded situation in which a carry should never be.If you want more life leech buy a vamp scepter it's like 450 gold.. TL:Dr every stat you get you can get from something else which will help you out more and you're putting yourself into a shitty position just to get the active off which means you either have to commit or you get fucked.Seriously it's just a waste of gold,buy a Bf sword instead.
You make some solid points. Buying it in lane is risky. The reason it has worked for me is because I'm able to get some kills and snowball that into better items quicker. Granted, I don't play ranked so I can see it not working at higher elos. So I will concede on that point. I still think it's useful as a late game item when you don't have the money for BT. The 8% increase in lifesteal is pretty noticeable.
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Jayce E retarded as fuck and bypass/cancels Flash.
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Well, at this point your items are probably looking like:
Boots
IE
PD
Vamp (you want 1 slot with lifesteal.)
Doran (planning to replace with LW)
Doran (planning to replace with GA or QSS)
Getting Exec Calling is just "instead of BT as my 1 big lifesteal item"
You don't need to sell a doran's, you don't need an EMPTY item slot. You just upgrade your vamp into something cheaper than BT.
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United States47024 Posts
TBH I think the most awkward thing about Exec's is still the fact that it mixes two stats that scale well with further DPS stats, but the combine gives you a DPS stat that doesn't scale with ANYTHING (the proc).
They could cut the cost, but realistically there are a lot of other ways to fix the item to make it a lot less clunky.
On September 08 2012 03:45 sylverfyre wrote:
Getting Exec Calling is just "instead of BT as my 1 big lifesteal item"
You don't need to sell a doran's, you don't need an EMPTY item slot. You just upgrade your vamp into something cheaper than BT.
And then you sell a DBlade 1650 gold sooner, losing it's cost-effectiveness (more so because DBlades only sell back for half, not 3/4 value).
The cost-effectiveness gain of Exec's is counteracted by the cost-effectiveness loss of throwing away a DBlade that much earlier.
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locodoco old skool infinty to ex calling stack
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On September 08 2012 03:45 Alaric wrote:
Jayce E retarded as fuck and bypass/cancels Flash.
It's got a slow animation so after you flash, if he already started the swing, then you'll get knocked in the direction you'd have gone before the flash.
I never get execs. Lifesteal is overrated in terms of its strength on everyone but ap fiddle and ad sion and people who've stacked numerous bloodthirsters. I'd rather get a second PD than waste a slot on execs.
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On September 08 2012 03:45 Alaric wrote:
Jayce E retarded as fuck and bypass/cancels Flash.
Magic damage % health nuke that also displaces and stuns on an AD bruiser with free resists is balanced, deal with it.
On September 08 2012 03:45 sylverfyre wrote:
Well, at this point your items are probably looking like:
Boots
IE
PD
Vamp (you want 1 slot with lifesteal.)
Doran (planning to replace with LW)
Doran (planning to replace with GA or QSS)
Getting Exec Calling is just "instead of BT as my 1 big lifesteal item"
You don't need to sell a doran's, you don't need an EMPTY item slot. You just upgrade your vamp into something cheaper than BT.
...or you could get some extra farm, make the Vamp into a BT anyway, and not waste your money.
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On September 08 2012 03:45 sylverfyre wrote:
Well, at this point your items are probably looking like:
Boots
IE
PD
Vamp (you want 1 slot with lifesteal.)
Doran (planning to replace with LW)
Doran (planning to replace with GA or QSS)
Getting Exec Calling is just "instead of BT as my 1 big lifesteal item"
You don't need to sell a doran's, you don't need an EMPTY item slot. You just upgrade your vamp into something cheaper than BT.
Dude if you're sitting on a IE and PD you're going to be critting almost every time anyway and you have more than enough life steal with a vamp and 1 dorans,just the other dorans a get a Bf sword,why waste gold....
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On September 08 2012 03:46 TheYango wrote:
TBH I think the most awkward thing about Exec's is still the fact that it mixes two stats that scale well with further DPS stats, but the combine gives you a DPS stat that doesn't scale with ANYTHING (the proc).
They could cut the cost, but realistically there are a lot of other ways to fix the item to make it a lot less clunky.
Agreed. It just isn't the type of item that the active works well with. There was a reason I was writing its passive and active off as completely negligible when cost-evaluating the item - for 900 gold, 8% lifesteal and 15% crit is a damn good bargain.
On September 08 2012 03:50 TheKefka wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:45 sylverfyre wrote:
Well, at this point your items are probably looking like:
Boots
IE
PD
Vamp (you want 1 slot with lifesteal.)
Doran (planning to replace with LW)
Doran (planning to replace with GA or QSS)
Getting Exec Calling is just "instead of BT as my 1 big lifesteal item"
You don't need to sell a doran's, you don't need an EMPTY item slot. You just upgrade your vamp into something cheaper than BT. Dude if you're sitting on a IE and PD you're going to be critting almost every time anyway and you have more than enough life steal with a vamp and 1 dorans,just the other dorans a get a Bf sword,why waste gold....
You're critting half the time. You're upping that to 65% of the time. Crit scales VERY well when you're looking at numbers like these. You can't just say "well 50% is like 100% so more crit chance isn't going to help me."
I'm not saying you always want more lifesteal than the 1 vamp, but maybe you do? That's why that's the situational part. The item is effectively "a really big vamp scepter", which has relevant and cost-effective DPS stats.
Edit: fixed cost.
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United States47024 Posts
On September 08 2012 03:51 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:46 TheYango wrote:
TBH I think the most awkward thing about Exec's is still the fact that it mixes two stats that scale well with further DPS stats, but the combine gives you a DPS stat that doesn't scale with ANYTHING (the proc).
They could cut the cost, but realistically there are a lot of other ways to fix the item to make it a lot less clunky. Agreed. It just isn't the type of item that the active works well with. There was a reason I was writing its passive and active off as completely negligible when cost-evaluating the item - for 750 gold, 8% lifesteal and 15% crit is a damn good bargain.
Where is 750 gold coming from? Vamp is 450, Brawler's is 400, and the recipe is 500. That's 900 for the Vamp->Exec's upgrade, not 750.
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What they should do is just remove the crit,stick AD onto it,keep the passive and make it so it builds into a BT,instead off a bf sword.
Becomes a better items for bruiser which can spam that active than and it's also useful on AD's.
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On September 08 2012 03:31 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 02:15 VirgilSC2 wrote:On September 08 2012 02:08 Seuss wrote:
SmashGizmo and ShakeDrizzle are easy to confuse because they have similar emphasis and lots of shared letters/letter shapes. Also they both sound like Goblin NPCs from WoW. brb making smurfs named SmashDrizmo and ShakeGizzle Go for it, SmurfDrizzle is already taken.
yea, we have SmurfDrizzle and SmashGizbro, pretty sure people can take w/e the fuck they want and we're still fine lol.
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On September 08 2012 03:53 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:51 sylverfyre wrote:On September 08 2012 03:46 TheYango wrote:
TBH I think the most awkward thing about Exec's is still the fact that it mixes two stats that scale well with further DPS stats, but the combine gives you a DPS stat that doesn't scale with ANYTHING (the proc).
They could cut the cost, but realistically there are a lot of other ways to fix the item to make it a lot less clunky. Agreed. It just isn't the type of item that the active works well with. There was a reason I was writing its passive and active off as completely negligible when cost-evaluating the item - for 750 gold, 8% lifesteal and 15% crit is a damn good bargain. Where is 750 gold coming from? Vamp is 450, Brawler's is 400, and the recipe is 500. That's 900 for the Vamp->Exec's upgrade, not 750.
Oops. Coming from me misremembering the item as being 1300 total. It's 1550 total. Derp. Editing.
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On September 08 2012 03:44 onlywonderboy wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:35 TheKefka wrote:On September 08 2012 03:22 onlywonderboy wrote:On September 08 2012 03:12 SoulSever wrote:
On what champs is exec's calling good and what's the timing to buy it? Never sure if it's after IE, before PD or after PD I would say this is probably one of the best situational items in the game. What I mean is you won't build it every game, but when you build it at the right time, it works very well. The times I will build it is usually after IE if my lane is having trouble with a sustain support. The heal reduction is on a super short cooldown (lasts 8 seconds with a 20 second cooldown, so effectively 12 seconds.) and can catch a lot of people off guard if they aren't carefully watching your items. The other time I build it is near the end of the game when the next team fight might decide the fate of the match, but I don't have the time or money to get a fully stacked BT. It has the highest lifesteal next to that stacked BT, so it can make the difference between life and death in a team fight. No.....don't listen to him.Building a Exec's is the worst idea on a ad carry.The active has like 350 range or something shitty like that and that's almost half of a auto attack range for a ad.Means you purposefully have to come really close and really commit to an attack.Besides even if you do play like that in lane the item will become shitty as you will get more than enough crit from a PD and IE,also if you go in near someone latter in the game to get a 350 range active on you are putting yourself into a retarded situation in which a carry should never be.If you want more life leech buy a vamp scepter it's like 450 gold.. TL:Dr every stat you get you can get from something else which will help you out more and you're putting yourself into a shitty position just to get the active off which means you either have to commit or you get fucked.Seriously it's just a waste of gold,buy a Bf sword instead. You make some solid points. Buying it in lane is risky. The reason it has worked for me is because I'm able to get some kills and snowball that into better items quicker. Granted, I don't play ranked so I can see it not working at higher elos. So I will concede on that point. I still think it's useful as a late game item when you don't have the money for BT. The 8% increase in lifesteal is pretty noticeable.
If you're relying on the difference of 8% lifesteal to make or break your fight you may need to reevaluate your positioning as an adc and perhaps how the teamfight proceeded in the first place. Almost always unless its a straight duel positioning will win more often than not.
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On September 08 2012 03:55 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On September 08 2012 03:53 TheYango wrote:On September 08 2012 03:51 sylverfyre wrote:On September 08 2012 03:46 TheYango wrote:
TBH I think the most awkward thing about Exec's is still the fact that it mixes two stats that scale well with further DPS stats, but the combine gives you a DPS stat that doesn't scale with ANYTHING (the proc).
They could cut the cost, but realistically there are a lot of other ways to fix the item to make it a lot less clunky. Agreed. It just isn't the type of item that the active works well with. There was a reason I was writing its passive and active off as completely negligible when cost-evaluating the item - for 750 gold, 8% lifesteal and 15% crit is a damn good bargain. Where is 750 gold coming from? Vamp is 450, Brawler's is 400, and the recipe is 500. That's 900 for the Vamp->Exec's upgrade, not 750. Oops. Coming from me misremembering the item as being 1300 total. It's 1550 total. Derp. Editing.
... it's 1350 total - 450 from vamp scepter = 900 to upgrade, just wait for the BT.
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United States47024 Posts
I mean, if you had to choose between IE+PD+Boots+BT+2xDoran's and IE+PD+Boots+Exec's+BF+Doran's, I don't think having the Exec's is better. And the latter build caps out 1 slot sooner.
Obviously having an immediately combined item can contribute to an immediate teamfight timing, but there are much smoother ways to do that at that point in the game.
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EPT
