My opponents had a soloqueue rating of 1792, 1981 and 1643 (in that order) at the time of playing.
I was contemplating posting this in the general Ashe thread, but seeing as it is fairly controversial and so out there I decided to make a new thread. "out there? ashe mid has been known for a long time" - well yes, but not with gp/10s.
This started out as a troll; I was playing ranked 5s and we decided to play 'money ashe'. I would go middle and max my hawkshot, and in botlane we had a TF+Taric lane (TF for his passive, obviously). I would then proceed to build triple gp/10s and just farm my way to 6 items for 'epic lulz'.
I used the following:
My summoners were flash + smite, and I was laning against a Katarina. I would max my hawkshot and steal the enemy big wraith with smite and generally use smite off CD for the extra 10 gold. I opened boots/3, and as I was doing this I noticed that I actually got so much gold that I managed to purchase an infinity edge a little before the 8 minute mark, so I scratched the gp/10s and just build that. I did get a FB, my score was 1-0-0. All the dragons were incredibly easy to secure, midlane was a breeze and we won the game before the 20 minute mark.
So we tried it the next 2 games. Katarina was probably one of the easier match-ups, and this time I was laning against an Ahri. I already tried to legitimize the strategy a bit and swapped my ignite for a cleanse. I actually died two times before level 6 (alistar jungle, fun times...), but still purchased my infinity edge at 10:16 (I only took note of the time I purchased it; not when I actually had the money). I died again upon entering lane because herp derp, I had no lifesteal/ignite and used my cleanse on her charm before she ignited so I barely lost the 1v1, making me 0-3. I purchased a vamp scepter and then actually killed Ahri 2 more times in lane over the course of the game, being only ~10cs behind as soon as laning phase finished. This was actually a pretty easy game as well, despite me derping around a lot early and dying.
The next game I was laning against an Orianna. It was mostly a farm-fest and I got my IE at 8:39, 0-0-0 score. We had an inhib down before 20 mins and they surrendered at 20, I ended up 6-0-2.
This makes me wonder - could this be more than viable? Obviously you wouldn't want to play this against some mid champs, but it seems incredibly strong thus far. You have excellent vision control thanks to hawkshot, you are in the middle of the map so your enchanted crystal arrow can really ruin someone's day and ashe is pretty safe due to her long range.
ashe mid isn't terrible it used to be pretty standard. it's safe and she can farm well there but then the questions that come up are: where does your AP go? who utilizes the blue buff? does ashe benefit more from items or levels, and if not from levels, why solo lane her?
anything is possible with the right amount of teamwork and coordination though, so don't be afraid to try this amongst ranked 5s with teammates. just don't expect a warm welcome if you try it in solo queue
On August 27 2012 11:17 gtrsrs wrote: ashe mid isn't terrible it used to be pretty standard. it's safe and she can farm well there but then the questions that come up are: where does your AP go? who utilizes the blue buff? does ashe benefit more from items or levels, and if not from levels, why solo lane her?
anything is possible with the right amount of teamwork and coordination though, so don't be afraid to try this amongst ranked 5s with teammates. just don't expect a warm welcome if you try it in solo queue
That seems like the interesting crux of it to me, surely you could do a similar thing in bottom lane. It would make for an incredibly passive lane, but bot lane is fairly passive anyway (Junglers tend to avoid it, you've got a support there for the sole purpose of making your CSing life easier). Ashe lanes tend to be fairly passive as is, but if what your saying is correct - CS the first 10 minutes well and you're so far ahead you can do as you please.
The biggest problem with a strat like this is aggressive opponents - if they work out what you're doing and try to take advantage of your slightly weaker earlier game... But this could happen in mid just as easily as in bot, and your more likely to have a jungler gank you.
Doing it in bot would be far less "meta-shifting" and people might be more willing to accept (Or not even notice you're doing anything different), it would be interesting if the success rate was any different in a bot lane with a defensive support.
It's certainly true that Ashe mid is safer now with the farmfest mid lane that is going on these days, but the issues that gtrsrs raise are still relevant. Perhaps running an AP bruiser top with tanky cc jungle/support and double AD (e.g. with Ez which can kite like a god with Ashe lategame + global) could be pretty good though.
I am not convinced that she is even remotely viable in mid. You can do this with Caitlyn and Tristana because they actually have a lot of different tools and escapes.
You cannot actually run my runes and masteries in botlane without getting absolutely shat on. No flat armor seals is a no-go and you'd generally want your quints to be of more direct use as well.
I was not fortunate enough to be around during the time of ashe mid.
I did however play a game against an ashe mid. Unlike regular aps she needs to autoattack to push the wave around. She has good range so she had good harass at early levels from autoattacks and her W. When I hit 6 though, even though I ran teleport, I could either kill or force her out of lane every time she showed her face.
The way mid works nowadays is both sides are super safe because they can push the lane without staying overextended for long periods or having to run up to autoattack. Overextending oneself every time one needs to harass makes you prone to ganks. At least run an AD carry with an escape. Otherwise I'll just freeze the lane at my tower and you can't cs without dying to ganks.
I'm convinced ashe mid is not viable.
I'm ignoring that in solo queue your team might whine about ashe mid and work around not having an AP carry mid to make sure they still have a magic damage threat to keep the enemies true and prevent them from stacking armor.
Considering that in fights after a certain point, ap mids just are made to burst down squishy AD champions, unless you run a lot of sustain and MR and life, ashe won't even be able to lane against APs.
On August 27 2012 11:17 gtrsrs wrote: ashe mid isn't terrible it used to be pretty standard. it's safe and she can farm well there but then the questions that come up are: where does your AP go? who utilizes the blue buff? does ashe benefit more from items or levels, and if not from levels, why solo lane her?
anything is possible with the right amount of teamwork and coordination though, so don't be afraid to try this amongst ranked 5s with teammates. just don't expect a warm welcome if you try it in solo queue
You could have Vlad top, or Rumble, or an AP jungler such as Amumu. The blue buff could just go to the jungler, being actually a jungler myself I can ensure you that a free 2nd (and maybe 3rd) blue is extremely welcome.
Ashe does kind of benefit from levels - especially at level 6 you can use your ulti on lanes, and you being in the middle makes it easier compared to you being in bot. You are also closer to minor objectives such as buffs, where you can ulti, hawkshot for vision and so forth.
The reason you solo lane her is because her defenses in midlane will generally come from glyphs - magic resist. In bot, you really, really need armor seals. This frees up your seals --> gp/10.
have you done the math on gp10 seals though? they're kind of bad and not as valuable as armor seals until like 19 minutes into the game or something ridiculous like that.
There's also this gimmick with ashe where you run teleport on ashe, put a ward in middle, then reach level 6 and let your enemy push a bit. Fire your arrow and tele in so that you arrive in time to reach them as they're stunned and get a kill on them. I'm not sure if this trick is reliable enough to let you win lane.
If it is then ashe mid is viable. Just running AD carries against AP carries is usually pretty dangerous. There's a lot of other gimmicky crap in the game. As shaco, if your enemy jungler is a blue starter, you can rush their red and then head to their wraiths. Then you just set up traps in the brush to wraiths and wait for them. 60% of the time it always nets first blood and set the enemy jungler behind. I'm not sure if this trick is still possible with the boxes nerf.
The point is many things are viable in solo queue. I personally think kill lanes tend to be stronger than ad carry support in bot lane. I just don't think ashe mid will fly in tournament games.
On August 27 2012 11:51 obesechicken13 wrote: There's also this gimmick with ashe where you run teleport on ashe, put a ward in middle, then reach level 6 and let your enemy push a bit. Fire your arrow and tele in so that you arrive in time to reach them as they're stunned and get a kill on them. I'm not sure if this trick is reliable enough to let you win lane.
If it is then ashe mid is viable. Just running AD carries against AP carries is usually pretty dangerous. There's a lot of other gimmicky crap in the game. As shaco, if your enemy jungler is a blue starter, you can rush their red and then head to their wraiths. Then you just set up traps in the brush to wraiths and wait for them. 60% of the time it always nets first blood and set the enemy jungler behind. I'm not sure if this trick is still possible with the boxes nerf.
The point is many things are viable in solo queue. I personally think kill lanes tend to be stronger than ad carry support in bot lane. I just don't think ashe mid will fly in tournament games.
On August 27 2012 11:51 obesechicken13 wrote: There's also this gimmick with ashe where you run teleport on ashe, put a ward in middle, then reach level 6 and let your enemy push a bit. Fire your arrow and tele in so that you arrive in time to reach them as they're stunned and get a kill on them. I'm not sure if this trick is reliable enough to let you win lane.
If it is then ashe mid is viable. Just running AD carries against AP carries is usually pretty dangerous. There's a lot of other gimmicky crap in the game. As shaco, if your enemy jungler is a blue starter, you can rush your own blue and then head to their wraiths. Then you just set up traps in the brush to wraiths and wait for them. 60% of the time it always nets first blood and set the enemy jungler behind. I'm not sure if this trick is still possible with the boxes nerf.
The point is many things are viable in solo queue. I personally think kill lanes tend to be stronger than ad carry support in bot lane. I just don't think ashe mid will fly in tournament games.
It depends on the AP carry, and Ashe with blue or levels + philo can just volley clear waves npnp. I'm more open to this idea on 5s, and I think it will be viable if you run a kite team with initiation/diving possibilities (after Ashe arrow), which will have a monstrous lategame with double AD (e.g. Ashe + Ez/Kog/Vayne/Trist which all benefit hugely from the Ashe slow).
The huge weakness of Ashe mid imo comes from easy counter-picking and lack of presence in other lanes apart from random arrows, but I really like where the OP is going since the meta is trending towards a farmfest mid-lane and a farmed up AD carry is arguably more dangerous than a farmed up AP carry given sufficient protection.
Initially I thought you'd be playing AP ashe, but I guess its just sort of a lane switch or double AD carry?
I like the idea and many ideas seem to make sense, but it seems you'd need pretty pro last hitting to keep close in CS against a decent opponent. It seems like a build that just needs better mechanics than a lot of people have-- CS without items, -1 summoner spell and taking advantage of Ashe's AA range advantage a lot.
I'll give this a go though and see how it works. I'll probably flub it terribad, haha.
Far as mana goes, well, you could give it to someone else for easier leveling or is mana hungry. I don't think its a big deal if Ashe just doesn't take it. I like how solo Ashe gets her towards "lategame" where she's good faster too.
On August 27 2012 11:51 obesechicken13 wrote: There's also this gimmick with ashe where you run teleport on ashe, put a ward in middle, then reach level 6 and let your enemy push a bit. Fire your arrow and tele in so that you arrive in time to reach them as they're stunned and get a kill on them. I'm not sure if this trick is reliable enough to let you win lane.
If it is then ashe mid is viable. Just running AD carries against AP carries is usually pretty dangerous. There's a lot of other gimmicky crap in the game. As shaco, if your enemy jungler is a blue starter, you can rush your own blue and then head to their wraiths. Then you just set up traps in the brush to wraiths and wait for them. 60% of the time it always nets first blood and set the enemy jungler behind. I'm not sure if this trick is still possible with the boxes nerf.
The point is many things are viable in solo queue. I personally think kill lanes tend to be stronger than ad carry support in bot lane. I just don't think ashe mid will fly in tournament games.
It depends on the AP carry, and Ashe with blue or levels + philo can just volley clear waves npnp. I'm more open to this idea on 5s, and I think it will be viable if you run a kite team with initiation/diving possibilities (after Ashe arrow), which will have a monstrous lategame with double AD (e.g. Ashe + Ez/Kog/Vayne/Trist which all benefit hugely from the Ashe slow).
The huge weakness of Ashe mid imo comes from easy counter-picking and lack of presence in other lanes apart from random arrows, but I really like where the OP is going since the meta is trending towards a farmfest mid-lane and a farmed up AD carry is arguably more dangerous than a farmed up AP carry given sufficient protection.
I don't think ashe can instaclear. At max rank ashe's W does 80 damage + 1 ad. That's about 3 volleys if I'm not mistaken to clear the ranged creeps. It's pretty cheap at 60 mana. I don't know where you've seen an ashe instaclear a wave even late game. And blue buff isn't infinite mana. I think someone mentioned it's around 25mp5 for people with higher mana pools than ashe. Add on that these people get doran's ring and have harder hitting spells, ashe is not instaclearing waves.
Are you advocating having two AD carries on your team? Like just ignore having an AP carry? You can do that, it's just that each class generally brings a lot to the team. The AP carries bring magic damage, burst, and clearing/pushing power as well as really strong cc that isn't conditional on it hitting from far away to stun for a long time.
Again I have not tried Ashe in arranged 5s for any period of time. I'm just pointing out flaws that I see that may arise when you try it.
Just because the meta is heading towards instaclears does not mean your opponent has to instaclear if they see ashe mid.
On August 27 2012 11:51 obesechicken13 wrote: There's also this gimmick with ashe where you run teleport on ashe, put a ward in middle, then reach level 6 and let your enemy push a bit. Fire your arrow and tele in so that you arrive in time to reach them as they're stunned and get a kill on them. I'm not sure if this trick is reliable enough to let you win lane.
If it is then ashe mid is viable. Just running AD carries against AP carries is usually pretty dangerous. There's a lot of other gimmicky crap in the game. As shaco, if your enemy jungler is a blue starter, you can rush your own blue and then head to their wraiths. Then you just set up traps in the brush to wraiths and wait for them. 60% of the time it always nets first blood and set the enemy jungler behind. I'm not sure if this trick is still possible with the boxes nerf.
The point is many things are viable in solo queue. I personally think kill lanes tend to be stronger than ad carry support in bot lane. I just don't think ashe mid will fly in tournament games.
It depends on the AP carry, and Ashe with blue or levels + philo can just volley clear waves npnp. I'm more open to this idea on 5s, and I think it will be viable if you run a kite team with initiation/diving possibilities (after Ashe arrow), which will have a monstrous lategame with double AD (e.g. Ashe + Ez/Kog/Vayne/Trist which all benefit hugely from the Ashe slow).
The huge weakness of Ashe mid imo comes from easy counter-picking and lack of presence in other lanes apart from random arrows, but I really like where the OP is going since the meta is trending towards a farmfest mid-lane and a farmed up AD carry is arguably more dangerous than a farmed up AP carry given sufficient protection.
I don't think ashe can instaclear. At max rank ashe's W does 80 damage + 1 ad. That's about 3 volleys if I'm not mistaken to clear the ranged creeps. It's pretty cheap at 60 mana. I don't know where you've seen an ashe instaclear a wave even late game. And blue buff isn't infinite mana. I think someone mentioned it's around 25mp5 for people with higher mana pools than ashe. Add on that these people get doran's ring and have harder hitting spells, ashe is not instaclearing waves.
Are you advocating having two AD carries on your team? Like just ignore having an AP carry? You can do that, it's just that each class generally brings a lot to the team. The AP carries bring magic damage, burst, and clearing/pushing power as well as really strong cc that isn't conditional on it hitting from far away to stun for a long time.
Again I have not tried Ashe in arranged 5s for any period of time. I'm just pointing out flaws that I see that may arise when you try it.
Run some mage like cass soraka something bottom, as your AP
On August 27 2012 11:51 obesechicken13 wrote: There's also this gimmick with ashe where you run teleport on ashe, put a ward in middle, then reach level 6 and let your enemy push a bit. Fire your arrow and tele in so that you arrive in time to reach them as they're stunned and get a kill on them. I'm not sure if this trick is reliable enough to let you win lane.
If it is then ashe mid is viable. Just running AD carries against AP carries is usually pretty dangerous. There's a lot of other gimmicky crap in the game. As shaco, if your enemy jungler is a blue starter, you can rush your own blue and then head to their wraiths. Then you just set up traps in the brush to wraiths and wait for them. 60% of the time it always nets first blood and set the enemy jungler behind. I'm not sure if this trick is still possible with the boxes nerf.
The point is many things are viable in solo queue. I personally think kill lanes tend to be stronger than ad carry support in bot lane. I just don't think ashe mid will fly in tournament games.
It depends on the AP carry, and Ashe with blue or levels + philo can just volley clear waves npnp. I'm more open to this idea on 5s, and I think it will be viable if you run a kite team with initiation/diving possibilities (after Ashe arrow), which will have a monstrous lategame with double AD (e.g. Ashe + Ez/Kog/Vayne/Trist which all benefit hugely from the Ashe slow).
The huge weakness of Ashe mid imo comes from easy counter-picking and lack of presence in other lanes apart from random arrows, but I really like where the OP is going since the meta is trending towards a farmfest mid-lane and a farmed up AD carry is arguably more dangerous than a farmed up AP carry given sufficient protection.
I don't think ashe can instaclear. At max rank ashe's W does 80 damage + 1 ad. That's about 3 volleys if I'm not mistaken to clear the ranged creeps. It's pretty cheap at 60 mana. I don't know where you've seen an ashe instaclear a wave even late game. And blue buff isn't infinite mana. I think someone mentioned it's around 25mp5 for people with higher mana pools than ashe. Add on that these people get doran's ring and have harder hitting spells, ashe is not instaclearing waves.
Are you advocating having two AD carries on your team? Like just ignore having an AP carry? You can do that, it's just that each class generally brings a lot to the team. The AP carries bring magic damage, burst, and clearing/pushing power as well as really strong cc that isn't conditional on it hitting from far away to stun for a long time.
Again I have not tried Ashe in arranged 5s for any period of time. I'm just pointing out flaws that I see that may arise when you try it.
You could run an AP top or have an AP jungler such as Amumu. An example would be Vlad top + Amumu jungle, you'd have your aoe and cc covered. Ashe has an arrow and a pretty long range slow, so it's not like she has zero cc. Bottom can just be as normal as it gets - have a random ad and a random supp and you're good to go.
The big question seems to be whether you gain anything from having greed!Ashe in mid rather than bot. The suggestions so far have been to run a champ like TF or Ez in bot lane, but both of those would be better in mid than Ashe is, whether you're going for this money build on her or not.
On August 27 2012 11:51 obesechicken13 wrote: There's also this gimmick with ashe where you run teleport on ashe, put a ward in middle, then reach level 6 and let your enemy push a bit. Fire your arrow and tele in so that you arrive in time to reach them as they're stunned and get a kill on them. I'm not sure if this trick is reliable enough to let you win lane.
If it is then ashe mid is viable. Just running AD carries against AP carries is usually pretty dangerous. There's a lot of other gimmicky crap in the game. As shaco, if your enemy jungler is a blue starter, you can rush your own blue and then head to their wraiths. Then you just set up traps in the brush to wraiths and wait for them. 60% of the time it always nets first blood and set the enemy jungler behind. I'm not sure if this trick is still possible with the boxes nerf.
The point is many things are viable in solo queue. I personally think kill lanes tend to be stronger than ad carry support in bot lane. I just don't think ashe mid will fly in tournament games.
It depends on the AP carry, and Ashe with blue or levels + philo can just volley clear waves npnp. I'm more open to this idea on 5s, and I think it will be viable if you run a kite team with initiation/diving possibilities (after Ashe arrow), which will have a monstrous lategame with double AD (e.g. Ashe + Ez/Kog/Vayne/Trist which all benefit hugely from the Ashe slow).
The huge weakness of Ashe mid imo comes from easy counter-picking and lack of presence in other lanes apart from random arrows, but I really like where the OP is going since the meta is trending towards a farmfest mid-lane and a farmed up AD carry is arguably more dangerous than a farmed up AP carry given sufficient protection.
I don't think ashe can instaclear. At max rank ashe's W does 80 damage + 1 ad. That's about 3 volleys if I'm not mistaken to clear the ranged creeps. It's pretty cheap at 60 mana. I don't know where you've seen an ashe instaclear a wave even late game. And blue buff isn't infinite mana. I think someone mentioned it's around 25mp5 for people with higher mana pools than ashe. Add on that these people get doran's ring and have harder hitting spells, ashe is not instaclearing waves.
Are you advocating having two AD carries on your team? Like just ignore having an AP carry? You can do that, it's just that each class generally brings a lot to the team. The AP carries bring magic damage, burst, and clearing/pushing power as well as really strong cc that isn't conditional on it hitting from far away to stun for a long time.
Again I have not tried Ashe in arranged 5s for any period of time. I'm just pointing out flaws that I see that may arise when you try it.
Run some mage like cass soraka something bottom, as your AP
I don't think this has been mentioned but a big reason why AP's are run mid is because they gain more from levels than AD's do. When you run Cass bot she gets the same cs as she would mid, she just gets less experience since her support gets half of it.
On August 27 2012 11:51 obesechicken13 wrote: There's also this gimmick with ashe where you run teleport on ashe, put a ward in middle, then reach level 6 and let your enemy push a bit. Fire your arrow and tele in so that you arrive in time to reach them as they're stunned and get a kill on them. I'm not sure if this trick is reliable enough to let you win lane.
If it is then ashe mid is viable. Just running AD carries against AP carries is usually pretty dangerous. There's a lot of other gimmicky crap in the game. As shaco, if your enemy jungler is a blue starter, you can rush your own blue and then head to their wraiths. Then you just set up traps in the brush to wraiths and wait for them. 60% of the time it always nets first blood and set the enemy jungler behind. I'm not sure if this trick is still possible with the boxes nerf.
The point is many things are viable in solo queue. I personally think kill lanes tend to be stronger than ad carry support in bot lane. I just don't think ashe mid will fly in tournament games.
It depends on the AP carry, and Ashe with blue or levels + philo can just volley clear waves npnp. I'm more open to this idea on 5s, and I think it will be viable if you run a kite team with initiation/diving possibilities (after Ashe arrow), which will have a monstrous lategame with double AD (e.g. Ashe + Ez/Kog/Vayne/Trist which all benefit hugely from the Ashe slow).
The huge weakness of Ashe mid imo comes from easy counter-picking and lack of presence in other lanes apart from random arrows, but I really like where the OP is going since the meta is trending towards a farmfest mid-lane and a farmed up AD carry is arguably more dangerous than a farmed up AP carry given sufficient protection.
I don't think ashe can instaclear. At max rank ashe's W does 80 damage + 1 ad. That's about 3 volleys if I'm not mistaken to clear the ranged creeps. It's pretty cheap at 60 mana. I don't know where you've seen an ashe instaclear a wave even late game. And blue buff isn't infinite mana. I think someone mentioned it's around 25mp5 for people with higher mana pools than ashe. Add on that these people get doran's ring and have harder hitting spells, ashe is not instaclearing waves.
Are you advocating having two AD carries on your team? Like just ignore having an AP carry? You can do that, it's just that each class generally brings a lot to the team. The AP carries bring magic damage, burst, and clearing/pushing power as well as really strong cc that isn't conditional on it hitting from far away to stun for a long time.
Again I have not tried Ashe in arranged 5s for any period of time. I'm just pointing out flaws that I see that may arise when you try it.
You could run an AP top or have an AP jungler such as Amumu. An example would be Vlad top + Amumu jungle, you'd have your aoe and cc covered. Ashe has an arrow and a pretty long range slow, so it's not like she has zero cc. Bottom can just be as normal as it gets - have a random ad and a random supp and you're good to go.
I think you run into the same problem as I mentioned earlier except now instead of not having an AP mid you don't have a bruiser since you ran an AP top. As much as people shit on bruisers in GD, having someone that can tank towers, dragons, and barons decently well, as well as being able to survive an AP carry's burst and have the damage to kill them is really good.
This discussion has reached an end. You guys are no longer discussing why you should run ashe mid. You're just trying to find ways to do it. If you're so intent on running ashe mid then do it. Try it in a few more arranged 5's. If you do well then report back.
On August 27 2012 11:51 obesechicken13 wrote: There's also this gimmick with ashe where you run teleport on ashe, put a ward in middle, then reach level 6 and let your enemy push a bit. Fire your arrow and tele in so that you arrive in time to reach them as they're stunned and get a kill on them. I'm not sure if this trick is reliable enough to let you win lane.
If it is then ashe mid is viable. Just running AD carries against AP carries is usually pretty dangerous. There's a lot of other gimmicky crap in the game. As shaco, if your enemy jungler is a blue starter, you can rush your own blue and then head to their wraiths. Then you just set up traps in the brush to wraiths and wait for them. 60% of the time it always nets first blood and set the enemy jungler behind. I'm not sure if this trick is still possible with the boxes nerf.
The point is many things are viable in solo queue. I personally think kill lanes tend to be stronger than ad carry support in bot lane. I just don't think ashe mid will fly in tournament games.
It depends on the AP carry, and Ashe with blue or levels + philo can just volley clear waves npnp. I'm more open to this idea on 5s, and I think it will be viable if you run a kite team with initiation/diving possibilities (after Ashe arrow), which will have a monstrous lategame with double AD (e.g. Ashe + Ez/Kog/Vayne/Trist which all benefit hugely from the Ashe slow).
The huge weakness of Ashe mid imo comes from easy counter-picking and lack of presence in other lanes apart from random arrows, but I really like where the OP is going since the meta is trending towards a farmfest mid-lane and a farmed up AD carry is arguably more dangerous than a farmed up AP carry given sufficient protection.
I don't think ashe can instaclear. At max rank ashe's W does 80 damage + 1 ad. That's about 3 volleys if I'm not mistaken to clear the ranged creeps. It's pretty cheap at 60 mana. I don't know where you've seen an ashe instaclear a wave even late game. And blue buff isn't infinite mana. I think someone mentioned it's around 25mp5 for people with higher mana pools than ashe. Add on that these people get doran's ring and have harder hitting spells, ashe is not instaclearing waves.
Are you advocating having two AD carries on your team? Like just ignore having an AP carry? You can do that, it's just that each class generally brings a lot to the team. The AP carries bring magic damage, burst, and clearing/pushing power as well as really strong cc that isn't conditional on it hitting from far away to stun for a long time.
Again I have not tried Ashe in arranged 5s for any period of time. I'm just pointing out flaws that I see that may arise when you try it.
Run some mage like cass soraka something bottom, as your AP
It's already been tried to death. AP duo is horrible and Ashe is easy as fuck to kill mid. Any mage with a little burst can flash 1 shot her every 5 minutes. It's not like she is ever going to get away or turn and burst you back.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/K4cED.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/l4nLK.jpg)
