• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 10:04
CET 16:04
KST 00:04
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
$21,000 RyongYi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)4Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns6[BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 103SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-1822Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises3
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Weekly Cups (Dec 22-28): Classic & MaxPax win, Percival surprises Chinese SC2 server to reopen; live all-star event in Hangzhou Starcraft 2 Zerg Coach
Tourneys
$21,000 RyongYi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) WardiTV Winter Cup WardiTV Mondays SC2 AI Tournament 2026 OSC Season 13 World Championship
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution
Brood War
General
I would like to say something about StarCraft BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion StarCraft & BroodWar Campaign Speedrun Quest Data analysis on 70 million replays
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] Grand Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10 SLON Grand Finals – Season 2
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta [G] How to get started on ladder as a new Z player
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Awesome Games Done Quick 2026! Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Trading/Investing Thread The Big Programming Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced
Blogs
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Psychological Factors That D…
TrAiDoS
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1693 users

[Patch 1.0.0.145: Rengar] General Discussion - Page 31

Forum Index > LoL General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 29 30 31 32 33 189 Next
JerKy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)3013 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-17 09:20:44
August 17 2012 09:17 GMT
#601
On August 17 2012 17:37 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
Played my first LoL game yesterday, cause a friend asked me too.. (3/7/9) at least we won...
Well I'm used to DotA so I hope someone would be so kind to help me. Is there a list of LoL heros which are more or less copies of Dota ones? Thanks in advance.

Err I don't think similar heroes (or ports) exist
There are a lot of individual skills that are same/similar to DotA skills, but thats bound to happen

The only think I can think of is Sejuani being somewhat like Beastmaster (minus the pig/bird)

Edit: There are also items that are same similar (sunfire cape = radiance, thornmail = chainmail, maelstrom ~ ionian spark, banshee's veil ~ linken's, etc etc), but I dont see any hero parallels
You can type "StarCraft" with just your left hand.
Kleinmuuhg
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Vanuatu4091 Posts
August 17 2012 09:20 GMT
#602
really? not a single one? thats disappointing, well thanks for the answer !
This is our town, scrub
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-17 09:28:41
August 17 2012 09:26 GMT
#603
On August 17 2012 18:17 JerKy wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 17:37 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
Played my first LoL game yesterday, cause a friend asked me too.. (3/7/9) at least we won...
Well I'm used to DotA so I hope someone would be so kind to help me. Is there a list of LoL heros which are more or less copies of Dota ones? Thanks in advance.

Err I don't think similar heroes (or ports) exist
There are a lot of individual skills that are same/similar to DotA skills, but thats bound to happen

The only think I can think of is Sejuani being somewhat like Beastmaster (minus the pig/bird)


Nocturne is kind of like Spectre.... just without the scaling really well offensively and defensively. You only get to pick one. Same Q (without wall walking), similar global ult, Noct gets spellshield where Spectre has AA mitigation.

I dunno, things in LoL just different. AD carries only get damages (hence no hyper carries), AP carries scale much better in LoL due to Ability Power ratios; most "mages" in DotA supports like Lich because they fall off, whereas supports in LoL basically like Healers/CC bots.

Probably easier for you to pick a role (Bruiser/tanky top, Ability power carrie mid, tanky/bruiser jungles, Attack Damage carry, or support) and just pick a champion who fills that roll that you thinks cool.
Kleinmuuhg
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Vanuatu4091 Posts
August 17 2012 09:36 GMT
#604
okay thanks for the tipps
In case I lose too often ,I shall return to bnet to own some scrubs !
This is our town, scrub
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
August 17 2012 09:42 GMT
#605
"Fixed: Garen's next basic attack after Decisive Strike no longer occurs unusually quickly"

Hmph, and no one would believe me for all this time.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-17 09:59:18
August 17 2012 09:56 GMT
#606
On August 17 2012 18:36 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
okay thanks for the tipps
In case I lose too often ,I shall return to bnet to own some scrubs !


play ap carries. they are similar to dota semicarries like mirana/storm/tinker etc. alot of ppl think that ap carries scale better than in dota when actually just their early game is a bit weaker and their lategame a bit stronger. But remember it is much harder to just win from ganking as everyone needs alot of farm even as a jungler and you dont lose gold if you die so you cant shut down players with just ganking while it is also much harder to kill stuff in lol. so basicly its alot more about getting a ton of farm on any champion except the supporter (there is only 1 supporter per team!).
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Blyf
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Denmark408 Posts
August 17 2012 10:03 GMT
#607
On August 17 2012 18:42 Shikyo wrote:
"Fixed: Garen's next basic attack after Decisive Strike no longer occurs unusually quickly"

Hmph, and no one would believe me for all this time.


Sure we did. I had a lot of fun with Garen after reading your post.

I (and many others I assume) just prefer not post if I cannot add anything of value to the discussion.
"ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" - Charles Darwin --- wtf? begets isn't a word. quit trying to make up words, fuckface. - Some idiot --- D3 Evelynn main with a side of Ashe/Tristana
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6219 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-17 10:08:03
August 17 2012 10:04 GMT
#608
On August 17 2012 17:37 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
Played my first LoL game yesterday, cause a friend asked me too.. (3/7/9) at least we won...
Well I'm used to DotA so I hope someone would be so kind to help me. Is there a list of LoL heros which are more or less copies of Dota ones? Thanks in advance.


From the LoL-> dota perspective, my friends gave me a key to play dota 2 and when I asked what's easy to pick up, they just told me pick drow ranger, play it like ashe. It did feel somewhat similar. Apart from the utility spells (W on drow, R on ashe), they play in largely the same way. Kite (spam W on ashe), attack until stuff dies.
Kleinmuuhg
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Vanuatu4091 Posts
August 17 2012 10:08 GMT
#609
On August 17 2012 18:56 clickrush wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 18:36 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
okay thanks for the tipps
In case I lose too often ,I shall return to bnet to own some scrubs !


play ap carries. they are similar to dota semicarries like mirana/storm/tinker etc. alot of ppl think that ap carries scale better than in dota when actually just their early game is a bit weaker and their lategame a bit stronger. But remember it is much harder to just win from ganking as everyone needs alot of farm even as a jungler and you dont lose gold if you die so you cant shut down players with just ganking while it is also much harder to kill stuff in lol. so basicly its alot more about getting a ton of farm on any champion except the supporter (there is only 1 supporter per team!).

Great, semicarries often were the heros of my choice anyway... I didnt realise you dont lose money when you die. Strange. Also you can't deny creeps, which really sux imo, but I'm sure that has been discussed to death.

Thanks again to all you guys' responses
This is our town, scrub
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
August 17 2012 10:22 GMT
#610
On August 17 2012 19:08 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 18:56 clickrush wrote:
On August 17 2012 18:36 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
okay thanks for the tipps
In case I lose too often ,I shall return to bnet to own some scrubs !


play ap carries. they are similar to dota semicarries like mirana/storm/tinker etc. alot of ppl think that ap carries scale better than in dota when actually just their early game is a bit weaker and their lategame a bit stronger. But remember it is much harder to just win from ganking as everyone needs alot of farm even as a jungler and you dont lose gold if you die so you cant shut down players with just ganking while it is also much harder to kill stuff in lol. so basicly its alot more about getting a ton of farm on any champion except the supporter (there is only 1 supporter per team!).

Great, semicarries often were the heros of my choice anyway... I didnt realise you dont lose money when you die. Strange. Also you can't deny creeps, which really sux imo, but I'm sure that has been discussed to death.

Thanks again to all you guys' responses


if your ahead in your lane you can often tank a fair amount of creeps when the lane pushes to your tower so the lane doesnt reset. that is how you deny in lol because creeps do far less damage.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11709 Posts
August 17 2012 10:23 GMT
#611
You can still kind of deny creeps, not through killing them, of course, but you just need to force the enemy not to be near them when they die. In many lanes, it is still possible to shut your enemy down pretty hard and deny them pretty much any farm from that lane if you are stronger then them and play it correctly.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
August 17 2012 10:33 GMT
#612
On August 17 2012 18:42 Shikyo wrote:
"Fixed: Garen's next basic attack after Decisive Strike no longer occurs unusually quickly"

Hmph, and no one would believe me for all this time.

Never realized this o_0
Also I like how they're fixing garen taking a short nap every time he's chasing someone and decisive striking them.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Schwopzi
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands954 Posts
August 17 2012 11:05 GMT
#613
On August 17 2012 19:08 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 18:56 clickrush wrote:
On August 17 2012 18:36 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
okay thanks for the tipps
In case I lose too often ,I shall return to bnet to own some scrubs !


play ap carries. they are similar to dota semicarries like mirana/storm/tinker etc. alot of ppl think that ap carries scale better than in dota when actually just their early game is a bit weaker and their lategame a bit stronger. But remember it is much harder to just win from ganking as everyone needs alot of farm even as a jungler and you dont lose gold if you die so you cant shut down players with just ganking while it is also much harder to kill stuff in lol. so basicly its alot more about getting a ton of farm on any champion except the supporter (there is only 1 supporter per team!).

Great, semicarries often were the heros of my choice anyway... I didnt realise you dont lose money when you die. Strange. Also you can't deny creeps, which really sux imo, but I'm sure that has been discussed to death.

Thanks again to all you guys' responses


Getting used to not being able to deny and the laneflow that follows from that is pretty important; notions like if you autoattack your lane opponent top early you're going to push your lane and be vulnerable to jungle ganks are key to understand.

A big point of critique on what clickrush said is that he excludes supports from the champions that need farm; but even supports should get farm. Core support items like aegis & shurelyas can turn early teamfights; the faster you get them the better. This doesnt mean that you should compete with your carries for farm; but supports should salvage all the farm they can get.
Only the dead have seen the end of war
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6219 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-17 11:06:58
August 17 2012 11:06 GMT
#614
MMk watching OGN, I'm convinced that the mana cost scaling and damage of diana's Q is going to be hit, hard. If you can hit 2-3 Q's, shove lane and then hit them when they can't do much under tower, towerdiving them and 70-0ing constantly looks so unbelievably broken.
wussleeQ
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States3130 Posts
August 17 2012 11:11 GMT
#615
I've decided to try and reach 2k within the next couple of weeks. Hope i at least reach plat lol.
BW -> League -> CSGO
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
August 17 2012 11:15 GMT
#616
On August 17 2012 19:08 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 18:56 clickrush wrote:
On August 17 2012 18:36 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
okay thanks for the tipps
In case I lose too often ,I shall return to bnet to own some scrubs !


play ap carries. they are similar to dota semicarries like mirana/storm/tinker etc. alot of ppl think that ap carries scale better than in dota when actually just their early game is a bit weaker and their lategame a bit stronger. But remember it is much harder to just win from ganking as everyone needs alot of farm even as a jungler and you dont lose gold if you die so you cant shut down players with just ganking while it is also much harder to kill stuff in lol. so basicly its alot more about getting a ton of farm on any champion except the supporter (there is only 1 supporter per team!).

Great, semicarries often were the heros of my choice anyway... I didnt realise you dont lose money when you die. Strange. Also you can't deny creeps, which really sux imo, but I'm sure that has been discussed to death.

Thanks again to all you guys' responses

Drow has an abysmal animation, I'd say it's the second-worst in the entire game after Lina. Considering that LoL has incredibly easy animations, I really don't see Drow as a good choice.

Mirana to me is a far better choice because she can fill just about every role and her animation and range are both exceptional.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
nyxnyxnyx
Profile Joined April 2010
Indonesia2978 Posts
August 17 2012 12:13 GMT
#617
on the topic of weird attack resets, nautilus W and fiora E comes to mind
cool beans
Schwopzi
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands954 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-17 12:27:07
August 17 2012 12:25 GMT
#618
On August 17 2012 21:13 nyxnyxnyx wrote:
on the topic of weird attack resets, nautilus W and fiora E comes to mind


Dont they just reset timer on use? That's rather common; garen used to reset on- and post-use which is really uncommon. When optimally used you could land 3 really quick attacks (auto-q-auto), something the ability isn't balanced around.
Only the dead have seen the end of war
jcarlsoniv
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States27922 Posts
August 17 2012 12:47 GMT
#619
On August 17 2012 20:11 wussleeQ wrote:
I've decided to try and reach 2k within the next couple of weeks. Hope i at least reach plat lol.


It's a super fun road, believe you me.
Soniv ||| Soniv#1962 ||| @jcarlsoniv ||| The Big Golem ||| Join the Glorious Evolution. What's your favorite aminal, a bear? ||| Joe "Don't call me Daniel" "Soniv" "Daniel" Carlsberg LXIX ||| Paging Dr. John Shadow
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
August 17 2012 12:53 GMT
#620
On August 17 2012 20:05 Schwopzi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 19:08 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
On August 17 2012 18:56 clickrush wrote:
On August 17 2012 18:36 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
okay thanks for the tipps
In case I lose too often ,I shall return to bnet to own some scrubs !


play ap carries. they are similar to dota semicarries like mirana/storm/tinker etc. alot of ppl think that ap carries scale better than in dota when actually just their early game is a bit weaker and their lategame a bit stronger. But remember it is much harder to just win from ganking as everyone needs alot of farm even as a jungler and you dont lose gold if you die so you cant shut down players with just ganking while it is also much harder to kill stuff in lol. so basicly its alot more about getting a ton of farm on any champion except the supporter (there is only 1 supporter per team!).

Great, semicarries often were the heros of my choice anyway... I didnt realise you dont lose money when you die. Strange. Also you can't deny creeps, which really sux imo, but I'm sure that has been discussed to death.

Thanks again to all you guys' responses


Getting used to not being able to deny and the laneflow that follows from that is pretty important; notions like if you autoattack your lane opponent top early you're going to push your lane and be vulnerable to jungle ganks are key to understand.

A big point of critique on what clickrush said is that he excludes supports from the champions that need farm; but even supports should get farm. Core support items like aegis & shurelyas can turn early teamfights; the faster you get them the better. This doesnt mean that you should compete with your carries for farm; but supports should salvage all the farm they can get.


as he comes from dota he understands this. supports get some farm there as well if it is available.

On August 17 2012 20:15 Shikyo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 17 2012 19:08 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
On August 17 2012 18:56 clickrush wrote:
On August 17 2012 18:36 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
okay thanks for the tipps
In case I lose too often ,I shall return to bnet to own some scrubs !


play ap carries. they are similar to dota semicarries like mirana/storm/tinker etc. alot of ppl think that ap carries scale better than in dota when actually just their early game is a bit weaker and their lategame a bit stronger. But remember it is much harder to just win from ganking as everyone needs alot of farm even as a jungler and you dont lose gold if you die so you cant shut down players with just ganking while it is also much harder to kill stuff in lol. so basicly its alot more about getting a ton of farm on any champion except the supporter (there is only 1 supporter per team!).

Great, semicarries often were the heros of my choice anyway... I didnt realise you dont lose money when you die. Strange. Also you can't deny creeps, which really sux imo, but I'm sure that has been discussed to death.

Thanks again to all you guys' responses

Drow has an abysmal animation, I'd say it's the second-worst in the entire game after Lina. Considering that LoL has incredibly easy animations, I really don't see Drow as a good choice.

Mirana to me is a far better choice because she can fill just about every role and her animation and range are both exceptional.


also drow and ashe are played completely differently mechanics wise since you can orbwalk in dota. I still remember when I played the LoL tutorial and was confused while trying to orbwalk with ashe. I thought there must be something wrong with my keybindings or something lol.

If these are the things I had to learn the hard way when I started to play LoL comming from dota:
- ganking/roaming is far less important/efficient.
- it matters far less where and when you place wards since they cost no money and have no limit. mapcontrol is achieved by being able to play aggressively as a team and getting oracles (snowball from laneing phase) and not by smarter ward placement and counterwarding.
- turrets hurt alot more and there is no way to deaggro them.
- alot of supports feel throughout weak on their own as they dont have that huge early game advantage like dota supports also there is only 1 support per team, the rest are semicarries.
oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Prev 1 29 30 31 32 33 189 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 12h 56m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Lowko457
RotterdaM 403
LamboSC2 296
BRAT_OK 110
DivinesiaTV 7
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 40622
Rain 7905
EffOrt 1875
Stork 666
Shuttle 640
BeSt 502
Snow 258
actioN 245
Barracks 176
Rush 158
[ Show more ]
Mini 139
Mind 97
Dewaltoss 95
Larva 62
Hyun 58
JYJ 57
Killer 57
HiyA 54
[sc1f]eonzerg 47
soO 37
910 32
Yoon 21
Rock 15
ajuk12(nOOB) 11
Terrorterran 8
scan(afreeca) 8
Dota 2
Gorgc4422
qojqva1662
syndereN380
Other Games
singsing2160
Grubby1865
B2W.Neo1369
hiko946
Liquid`RaSZi518
Sick273
XaKoH 181
XcaliburYe89
KnowMe73
QueenE64
djWHEAT63
ArmadaUGS10
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick38106
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 3
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos3706
Upcoming Events
SOOP
12h 56m
SHIN vs GuMiho
Cure vs Creator
The PondCast
18h 56m
Wardi Open
20h 56m
Big Gabe XPERIONCRAFT
21h 56m
AI Arena Tournament
1d 4h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 18h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 21h
IPSL
2 days
DragOn vs Sziky
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-08
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
OSC Championship Season 13
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1: W4
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Rongyi Cup S3
Thunderfire SC2 All-star 2025
Big Gabe Cup #3
Nations Cup 2026
Underdog Cup #3
NA Kuram Kup
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.