EPTthat said, i'm with seuss in that if you're playing a jungler where you require more than an auto or a spell or else it messes you up, then you're either playing it wrong or it's a terrible jungling champion.
[Patch 1.0.0.144: Diana] General Discussion - Page 96
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
that said, i'm with seuss in that if you're playing a jungler where you require more than an auto or a spell or else it messes you up, then you're either playing it wrong or it's a terrible jungling champion. | ||
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Perplex
United States1693 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:55 Requizen wrote: Anyone else feel that Ahri could use a nerf on something? Maybe give Spirit Rush a longer CD? I don't think she's blatantly broken in any way, but she just has really sick damage, and her super mobility spell has a really, really short CD. It's already been hit twice, I think she's pretty close to balanced now. | ||
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Terranasaur
United States2085 Posts
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NEOtheONE
United States2233 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:06 barbsq wrote: i am skeptical, to say the least, that 1 creep makes or breaks a lane due to level advantages. Pretty sure the creep wave dynamics are far more of an influence to who hits a level first than 1 creep that you miss out on. that said, i'm with seuss in that if you're playing a jungler where you require more than an auto or a spell or else it messes you up, then you're either playing it wrong or it's a terrible jungling champion. I also agree. if you require an Anivia quality leash, then you probably shouldn't be jungling, but man Anivia leashes rock. That AoE stun! I love giving them as Anivia, makes my jungler like me more. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 09 2012 04:06 Requizen wrote: Is that really what makes it bug? I've had it bug out from just a spell before, I think something in the AI is just wonky as fuck. If you are not in range for the golem to walk to you when it's targetting you and reaches its max leash range, and you are still damaging it, it will NOT acquire a new target (because you're still the target since you're still damaging it) and it will opt to do a hard reset instead of a target swap. Once it starts doing the hard reset, it will heal to full as it walks back to its origin before acquiring a new target. So basically, if you're mid (and thus you're behind the trees) you have to stop damaging it when it reaches the bush. If you really want to, you can start damaging it again after it swaps targets to the jungler, but if you don't let it drop aggro on you, it will hard reset. Be careful with DOT leashes, they're the biggest culprit of this. (Dropping a morg pool in the bush as golem reaches max range, a particularly late swain Q or E, etc) A ranged AD/support/top can cause it too if they're standing too far out of the golem's range too while attacking it when it gets to its target swap point - if chooses to aggro them it will hard reset because they are too far away. I love anivia/morgana leashes (or any leash with a stun/snare) because it often means an easy smiteless pull on blue without much extra work from the sidelane, and likely no lost creeps for everyone. Smiteless pulls, especially on good counterjunglers, are great (on Skarner or Shyv, one can turn a smiteless pull into a strong attempt to FB enemy jungler at their red or wraiths. Especially if we have a ward around there somewhere. | ||
arb
Noobville17921 Posts
Supposedly it was a few patches back, read supposedly. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:06 barbsq wrote: i am skeptical, to say the least, that 1 creep makes or breaks a lane due to level advantages. Pretty sure the creep wave dynamics are far more of an influence to who hits a level first than 1 creep that you miss out on. that said, i'm with seuss in that if you're playing a jungler where you require more than an auto or a spell or else it messes you up, then you're either playing it wrong or it's a terrible jungling champion. lol I was duoing bot with my bro once quite a while back, I was alistar. We accidentally reset the double golems so we just went to lane, losing 1 cs of experience. Then for something like 12 seconds I was ONE experience from level two and killing them, but after about 10 seconds it was too late. Infuriating. Then last week I was xin top vs jax. I kept trading with him (he must have thought I was retarded, jax outfights xin in every way in lane) because for some reason he had missed one creep of xp. Then when I hit level two one creep earlier I went all in and killed him. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:02 gtrsrs wrote: i play shyv top a ton the basic logistics of it are building some sort of sustain as she has none (70% of the time, i opt for d-shield + 1-2 d-blades, the other 30% of the time, wriggles), building tanky first as she has very high base damages, and building damage as a secondary goal + Show Spoiler + i run 9/21/0 with arpen% mastery and a focus on HP in the defensive tree. boots +3 start 99% of the time. summoners don't even matter, i've won with promote, shyvana is really summoner independent. exhaust/ignite if you're ballsy, flash/ignite kinda standard, i've taken teleport, i've taken heal, she can do w/e i skill W first and max it first as well. WQEWWRWEW, then max E before Q you are quit incorrect in your analysis that she has no escape, as she actually has 2! her W and R are both fantastic escape tools that make her nigh impossible to gank. there are two ways to play the lane, i usually do a mix of the two the first revolves around shoving the lane as hard as possible. if the enemy laner stands in their creeps, it means turning on W and autoing the laner while your flames burn the creeps down. then last hit them when the enemy laner backs off. when they stop standing in creeps, just auto + W to shove the lane. you can then harass with E or counterjungle. this is effective against people who struggle to last hit under a tower (i.e. nunu, rumble, etc). if enemy jungler is near, save your W for when they engage you then zoom away. you can waste a ton of enemy jungler's time if you dance around just out of reach and blow flashes the second revolves around engaging the enemy laner. if enemy laner is away from creeps, try to snipe them with E. if you hit E, all in with WQautoautoauto. you do UNBELIEVABLE amounts of damage from your W base and E increase. there are very very few champs shyv can't beat in a trade early. item build usually looks like d-blades + d-shield -> phage -> wit's -> aegis -> zeke's -> mallet -> bloodthirster. once someone starts out-trading you (like, level 11 when their ults are catching up and your W damage isn't as important) just take the tower and the entire enemy jungle, then solo dragon while your opponent struggles to push top lane back fights are ult enemy carry -> never back out she's definitely viable but you'll catch a lot of flak for playing her now I've gone against it a few times, not my favorite experiences in the game. Her dueling potential is through the roof, I just was wondering why you never see her up there as much. Probably has quite a bit to do with her being great in the jungle, but as far as tops who transition into unkillable tanks go, she's not bad. | ||
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RoyGBiv_13
United States1275 Posts
On August 09 2012 03:23 Morfildur wrote: From what i understand, leashes work better if you are not in the brush. If the golem loses sight on you even for a split second, it resets. Then again, i only have anecdotal evidence towards that and haven't scientifically tested it. + Show Spoiler + I was lead to believe that it would also reset if it changed targets more than once, but am not sure on that one. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
So basically, if you're mid (and thus you're behind the trees) you have to stop damaging it when it reaches the bush. If you really want to, you can start damaging it again after it swaps targets to the jungler, but if you don't let it drop aggro on you, it will hard reset. Be careful with DOT leashes, they're the biggest culprit of this. (Dropping a morg pool in the bush as golem reaches max range, a particularly late swain Q or E, etc) The last time I played in a LP premade ro4r fucked me by resetting blue as singed. Did he do this by dotting it when it was in the bush? No, once it reached max range he flung over the wall... lol | ||
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-Zoda-
France3578 Posts
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ThE)ShoWTimE
Italy213 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:22 -Zoda- wrote: What about like, taking the time to make a good leash, losing a creep but taking a small wolf before in compensation ? Would it be equal in term of exp ? wolf is worth 10 xp, melee minion is worth 58 (minimum) | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:27 ThE)ShoWTimE wrote: can someone explain me how to counter or contain Diana? seriously she might even lane bad, but as soon as she gets a kill or 2 she just gets out of control, they usually build like akali, so she has both AD and AP, also ASPD from her passive and i have seen someone get even Nashor's on her too, and they even bought some lifesteal and a gunblade so she even regen pretty fast... i don't know what to do, the fact that as soon as she hits a Q on you she can perma jump on you and hit W and E and just destroy everyone is kinda sick imo.. Dodge the Q is probably the biggest component in her damage out put, other than that I feel you should be able to pull away from her accordingly~ | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:29 barbsq wrote: wolf is worth 10 xp, melee minion is worth 58 (minimum) Or you can do what Navi always does and lasthit the big wolf huehuehue. On August 09 2012 06:06 barbsq wrote: that said, i'm with seuss in that if you're playing a jungler where you require more than an auto or a spell or else it messes you up, then you're either playing it wrong or it's a terrible jungling champion. While not strictly necessary, there's a lot of cute shit a jungler can get away with if he doesn't have to smite his first buff. Particularly with junglers that can gank well at level 3 and get fast double buff if they save their Smite. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:27 ThE)ShoWTimE wrote: can someone explain me how to counter or contain Diana? seriously she might even lane bad, but as soon as she gets a kill or 2 she just gets out of control, they usually build like akali, so she has both AD and AP, also ASPD from her passive and i have seen someone get even Nashor's on her too, and they even bought some lifesteal and a gunblade so she even regen pretty fast... i don't know what to do, the fact that as soon as she hits a Q on you she can perma jump on you and hit W and E and just destroy everyone is kinda sick imo.. Who are you playing? She's like Akali or Kass, a high burst, fast diving melee assassin. If you're playing someone squishy and immobile (like Karth, for instance), she's just going to jump on your face and eat you whole. If you're playing someone with hard CC or high mobility, she's easier to lock down. Treat her like any assassin: dodge what you can, don't get too far from the tower, and never try to 1v1 her unless you have a large advantage. Her CDs are short, so there's no real "drawing out" big abilities, so you just kind of have to expect her to jump on your face at any moment. Once you play safe and dodge the Qs, she's less scary. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:36 TheYango wrote: Or you can do what Navi always does and lasthit the big wolf huehuehue. While not strictly necessary, there's a lot of cute shit a jungler can get away with if he doesn't have to smite his first buff. Particularly with junglers that can gank well at level 3 and get fast double buff if they save their Smite. not saying that it should never be done (and if someone asks me nicely, i'm usually quite willing to give a leash like that), but there's absolutely no reason to get upset if your midlaner doesn't want to give you anything more than even an autoattack to leash blue. also big wolf is 128 xp, navi sooper greedy XD | ||
Carnivorous Sheep
Baa?21243 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:06 barbsq wrote: i am skeptical, to say the least, that 1 creep makes or breaks a lane due to level advantages. Pretty sure the creep wave dynamics are far more of an influence to who hits a level first than 1 creep that you miss out on. If you miss the first creep, you have to push to hit level 2 at the same time as the other guy, which leaves you more vulnerable/lane pushed/etc. It doesn't matter in a lo to flanes, but if you have a shitty lane like veigar vs cass or something and cass hits 2 and you're 1 you basically lost lane for the next 6 levels... | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On August 09 2012 06:19 RoyGBiv_13 wrote: + Show Spoiler + http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WNdDpUQLgM I was lead to believe that it would also reset if it changed targets more than once, but am not sure on that one. I wasn't aware of the full reset after passing the threshold three times. That explains why most resets I saw involved awkwardly placed lizards forcing the golem past the threshold. | ||
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