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[Patch 1.0.0.144: Diana] General Discussion - Page 82

Forum Index > LoL General
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AUGcodon
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Canada536 Posts
August 08 2012 03:37 GMT
#1621
Lets put it this way. Do you honestly feel in an average game, you will be able to afford all that?
2809-8732-2116/ Fighting/ Mienfoo, Tyrogue, Sawk
Vaporized
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1471 Posts
August 08 2012 03:39 GMT
#1622
i looked at some lol wiki. adjust numbers accordingly. it still works out.
wei2coolman
Profile Joined November 2010
United States60033 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 03:40:55
August 08 2012 03:40 GMT
#1623
On August 08 2012 12:36 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 12:35 Vaporized wrote:
lol lets do some math on the first game:

3 kills (average of 400 gold) + 2 assists (50 gold) = 1300 gold
passive gp5 + philo (i start regrowth, and complete philo by around 5 min) = ill round down for the slightly late philo and say 2000 gold.
dragon + 1 turret = 300 gold
lane minions (20 gold average) = 31 * 20 = 620 gold

that by itself (1300 + 2000 + 300 + 620) = 4220 gold.

which means that i got slightly more then 2k gold from farming the jungle minions, i had 147 neutral creep kills. and some of those were from the other guys jungle. i make it a priority to farm my jungle. when it is clear i go gank, and then i go farm more. i do this on every jungler i play. diana is both one of the fastest clears and the fastest time from camp to camp as she can q-r over walls. i was rather impressed with how hard i could farm.

What game are you playing that averages 400 gold per kill?

The one where you can reasonably afford Deathcap on a jungler on majority of games. *sarcasm*
liftlift > tsm
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 03:42:58
August 08 2012 03:41 GMT
#1624
On August 08 2012 12:36 Ryuu314 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 12:35 Vaporized wrote:
lol lets do some math on the first game:

3 kills (average of 400 gold) + 2 assists (50 gold) = 1300 gold
passive gp5 + philo (i start regrowth, and complete philo by around 5 min) = ill round down for the slightly late philo and say 2000 gold.
dragon + 1 turret = 300 gold
lane minions (20 gold average) = 31 * 20 = 620 gold

that by itself (1300 + 2000 + 300 + 620) = 4220 gold.

which means that i got slightly more then 2k gold from farming the jungle minions, i had 147 neutral creep kills. and some of those were from the other guys jungle. i make it a priority to farm my jungle. when it is clear i go gank, and then i go farm more. i do this on every jungler i play. diana is both one of the fastest clears and the fastest time from camp to camp as she can q-r over walls. i was rather impressed with how hard i could farm.

What game are you playing that averages 400 gold per kill?

He taxes quite heavily with 31 minions so maybe his allies are underleveled and the enemy gets big bounties.

The numbers are definitely slightly off but I think they're still fine. Just very hard. Also 3-0-2 is pretty fed.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Vaporized
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1471 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 03:49:50
August 08 2012 03:44 GMT
#1625
On August 08 2012 12:41 obesechicken13 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 12:36 Ryuu314 wrote:
On August 08 2012 12:35 Vaporized wrote:
lol lets do some math on the first game:

3 kills (average of 400 gold) + 2 assists (50 gold) = 1300 gold
passive gp5 + philo (i start regrowth, and complete philo by around 5 min) = ill round down for the slightly late philo and say 2000 gold.
dragon + 1 turret = 300 gold
lane minions (20 gold average) = 31 * 20 = 620 gold

that by itself (1300 + 2000 + 300 + 620) = 4220 gold.

which means that i got slightly more then 2k gold from farming the jungle minions, i had 147 neutral creep kills. and some of those were from the other guys jungle. i make it a priority to farm my jungle. when it is clear i go gank, and then i go farm more. i do this on every jungler i play. diana is both one of the fastest clears and the fastest time from camp to camp as she can q-r over walls. i was rather impressed with how hard i could farm.

What game are you playing that averages 400 gold per kill?

He taxes quite heavily with 31 minions so maybe his allies are underleveled and the enemy gets big bounties.

31 minions is about 5 waves in 20 minutes. if someone goes back and i hold the lane i will last hit creeps. if creeps are going to die to one of our towers i try to get there to farm them if no one else will be there. mid lane i will push waves into the enemy tower if i gank and my laner has to go back to deny the other mid. after a turret goes down and the laner is farming my jungle i will go farm his lane. 31 is not that many. if i go gank a lane and smite is up i will smite a creep for the 10 bonus gold from defensive mastery. after i get my first red and blue i keep smite on cd because it is free gold.

31 is also from after the last team fight where i probably killed some on the way there and on the way back. the fight was at top turret.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 03:52:39
August 08 2012 03:48 GMT
#1626
I have no doubt you can afford a dcap on a jungler going 3-0-2. The issue is you're not going to go 3-0-2 every game or at least in a game where you don't completely outclass your opponents.

Rushing straight damage on a jungler is also generally a not very smart idea with the current meta. Even Triforce rushes have some measure of survivability to them with the extra hp and movespeed. Dcap offers nothing but damage.
MoonBear
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 03:58:42
August 08 2012 03:57 GMT
#1627
On August 08 2012 11:00 barbsq wrote:
is it just me, or is draven seriously underrated?

like, this is purely anecdotal evidence, but every time i've seen draven, either on streams or in my own games, they get 20+ kills and go legendary multiple times in a single game. The only time i've ever seen a draven do poorly was in the first 2 days he was released.

idk, mybe it's just me

Draven passive gives him a free BF sword by like lvl 6 or something stupid every time he hits Q. You can outfarm and outplay him really hard and get a whole BF up on him, but if you try to fight he still hits like a truck. It's honestly ridiculous. Actually, adding on the bonus damage native to Q he gets his free BF by lvl 4 I think. Wtf. And once he gets crit he doesn't even need his Q to truck you. I'm so glad no one plays him.
ModeratorA dream. Do you have one that has cursed you like that? Or maybe... a wish?
Vaporized
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1471 Posts
August 08 2012 04:06 GMT
#1628
On August 08 2012 12:48 Ryuu314 wrote:
I have no doubt you can afford a dcap on a jungler going 3-0-2. The issue is you're not going to go 3-0-2 every game or at least in a game where you don't completely outclass your opponents.

Rushing straight damage on a jungler is also generally a not very smart idea with the current meta. Even Triforce rushes have some measure of survivability to them with the extra hp and movespeed. Dcap offers nothing but damage.

LOL i said right above the screenshots on the last page i went 3-0-2 in one game and 2-0-3 in the other... you said it was impossible to get a dcap at 23 minutes. it would help if people actually read what i wrote instead of immediately going 'no fucking way'.

its just common sense that if i dont get a few kills or assists im going to be fairly useless to my team and be behind in items by 20-25 minutes. i specifically said in these games what my k/d/a was at 23 minutes. a jungler who has made no impact by 20 minutes is a bad jungler, there are some games where things dont go my way and i either die or i dont get any kills or assists and you know what, i lose those games and i dont get a 23 minute dcap. my whole point was that a 23 min dcap is possible on a jungler.

as for building damage items on a jungler. i usually tell my team what i am going to play and ask if either top or support can be tanky, and 9 times out of 10 someone will do that. if i am one of the last 2 picks and we have no tank thats when i play sejuani or skarner. i dont want to play diana as a tank. i like the idea of an ap burst being designed to be a jungler. that is a concept that appeals to me, and through the first few games of playing her it works just fine.
Ryuu314
Profile Joined October 2009
United States12679 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 04:15:13
August 08 2012 04:13 GMT
#1629
On August 08 2012 13:06 Vaporized wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 12:48 Ryuu314 wrote:
I have no doubt you can afford a dcap on a jungler going 3-0-2. The issue is you're not going to go 3-0-2 every game or at least in a game where you don't completely outclass your opponents.

Rushing straight damage on a jungler is also generally a not very smart idea with the current meta. Even Triforce rushes have some measure of survivability to them with the extra hp and movespeed. Dcap offers nothing but damage.

LOL i said right above the screenshots on the last page i went 3-0-2 in one game and 2-0-3 in the other... you said it was impossible to get a dcap at 23 minutes. it would help if people actually read what i wrote instead of immediately going 'no fucking way'.

its just common sense that if i dont get a few kills or assists im going to be fairly useless to my team and be behind in items by 20-25 minutes. i specifically said in these games what my k/d/a was at 23 minutes. a jungler who has made no impact by 20 minutes is a bad jungler, there are some games where things dont go my way and i either die or i dont get any kills or assists and you know what, i lose those games and i dont get a 23 minute dcap. my whole point was that a 23 min dcap is possible on a jungler.

as for building damage items on a jungler. i usually tell my team what i am going to play and ask if either top or support can be tanky, and 9 times out of 10 someone will do that. if i am one of the last 2 picks and we have no tank thats when i play sejuani or skarner. i dont want to play diana as a tank. i like the idea of an ap burst being designed to be a jungler. that is a concept that appeals to me, and through the first few games of playing her it works just fine.

If you go into a game with the plan of getting a dcap at 23 minutes, you're gonna have a bad time. It's probably a sign that dcap rush is a bad build when you always lose games where you don't get fed and get that 23 minute dcap. If you're getting fed then sure, a dcap could be very nice to help you snowball the game. But it shouldn't by any means by core. If you were merely stating that it's possible, then fine, yes it's possible. But practically anything's possible.It's possible to get an IE from the jungle in 23 minutes. Doesn't mean it's viable/good.

also, making an impact on the game =/= fed. sometimes making an impact merely means making sure the enemy team has less farm than your team. that's it.

Building damage on a jungler is not bad. Rushing damage on a jungler tends to be bad. There's a difference.
iCanada
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada10660 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-08 04:27:46
August 08 2012 04:23 GMT
#1630
On August 08 2012 13:06 Vaporized wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 08 2012 12:48 Ryuu314 wrote:
I have no doubt you can afford a dcap on a jungler going 3-0-2. The issue is you're not going to go 3-0-2 every game or at least in a game where you don't completely outclass your opponents.

Rushing straight damage on a jungler is also generally a not very smart idea with the current meta. Even Triforce rushes have some measure of survivability to them with the extra hp and movespeed. Dcap offers nothing but damage.

LOL i said right above the screenshots on the last page i went 3-0-2 in one game and 2-0-3 in the other... you said it was impossible to get a dcap at 23 minutes. it would help if people actually read what i wrote instead of immediately going 'no fucking way'.

its just common sense that if i dont get a few kills or assists im going to be fairly useless to my team and be behind in items by 20-25 minutes. i specifically said in these games what my k/d/a was at 23 minutes. a jungler who has made no impact by 20 minutes is a bad jungler, there are some games where things dont go my way and i either die or i dont get any kills or assists and you know what, i lose those games and i dont get a 23 minute dcap. my whole point was that a 23 min dcap is possible on a jungler.

as for building damage items on a jungler. i usually tell my team what i am going to play and ask if either top or support can be tanky, and 9 times out of 10 someone will do that. if i am one of the last 2 picks and we have no tank thats when i play sejuani or skarner. i dont want to play diana as a tank. i like the idea of an ap burst being designed to be a jungler. that is a concept that appeals to me, and through the first few games of playing her it works just fine.


A jungler who can't get 5 successful ganks in 20 minutes isn't necessarily a bad jungler. Good players are good at avoiding ganks man. Unless they going balls deep to gank, in which case there is no way they going to have anywhere near optimal jungle farms.

Junglers can make huge impact and win lanes without killing enemy laners, being zoned because you know the enemy jangler camping your brush is an awful feeling.

No one is telling you not to build damage on a jungler. If you playing leesin and you like 5-0-0, sure, build that BT and kill things. But, there is a reason no one just flat out rushes BT on junglers.
De4ngus
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States6533 Posts
August 08 2012 04:26 GMT
#1631
why argue with vaporized? i think most people realize hes a huge troll after that mass pd hecarim thread.
GANDHISAUCE
upperbound
Profile Joined September 2011
United States2300 Posts
August 08 2012 04:26 GMT
#1632
Anyone else unable to spectate games right now? I keep getting to 100% on the loading screen and then no game comes up. I can play just fine, though.
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 08 2012 04:29 GMT
#1633
Vaporized, we had this discussion in the first inception of your Hecarim thread, where you advocated your TF/PD/PD build the first time, claiming it was a good core because you would get 9 kills/assists before 10 minutes. We politely told you that that isn't how you decide core builds, that getting fed isn't the norm, and that getting a late game item at 20 minutes doesn't happen regularly.

Learn your lesson. A normal game (i.e. not a complete shit shoot) will only have ~2-3 kills TOTAL (for both sides, not each) early game unless someone fucks up hard or gets camped like a bitch.

So no, you can not count on having a DC at 23 minutes in a normal game. When people stop playing like shit and actually watch out for Diana's semi-pathetic pre-6 ganks, you'll find you have less kills early on, and your lanes will not always let you have farm.
It's your boy Guzma!
Chiharu Harukaze
Profile Joined September 2011
12112 Posts
August 08 2012 04:34 GMT
#1634
Out of curiosity, is DCap by 23 min standard in midlane? I can't actually farm that normally because I'm too busy having to roam, duel the jungler, etc. I guess I should steal wraiths more often but does it help? I'm not a very good midplayer for what it's worth so maybe it's just my mechanics.
It's like, "Is the Federation's Mobile Suit some kind of monster?"
Requizen
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States33802 Posts
August 08 2012 04:36 GMT
#1635
I don't really play mid, but it's probably feasible based on farm and stealing wraiths, so easier for someone like Morg, Galio, or Kass, harder for Fizz or something.
It's your boy Guzma!
Lmui
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada6223 Posts
August 08 2012 04:36 GMT
#1636
On August 08 2012 13:34 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
Out of curiosity, is DCap by 23 min standard in midlane? I can't actually farm that normally because I'm too busy having to roam, duel the jungler, etc. I guess I should steal wraiths more often but does it help? I'm not a very good midplayer for what it's worth so maybe it's just my mechanics.


Around 23 minutes you should have double dorans + sorcs + large rod + blasting rod. It's sorta 50/50 whether or not you have a dcap by then.
justiceknight
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Singapore5741 Posts
August 08 2012 04:37 GMT
#1637
does any1 knows when Doublelift streams? its hard to find his videos and VODS.
obesechicken13
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States10467 Posts
August 08 2012 04:42 GMT
#1638
Interesting that curse is going to turn their 2 mill new home into a livestream reality TV show thing.
Also I don't think kass farms well unless it's against another melee or he's zoning.
I think in our modern age technology has evolved to become more addictive. The things that don't give us pleasure aren't used as much. Work was never meant to be fun, but doing it makes us happier in the long run.
Cloud
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
Sexico5880 Posts
August 08 2012 04:42 GMT
#1639
On August 08 2012 13:34 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
Out of curiosity, is DCap by 23 min standard in midlane? I can't actually farm that normally because I'm too busy having to roam, duel the jungler, etc. I guess I should steal wraiths more often but does it help? I'm not a very good midplayer for what it's worth so maybe it's just my mechanics.

Around 20 minutes is standard for boots2 + 2 sorc rings + dcap. Also true for many other big items like triforce, ie, etc.
BlueLaguna on West, msg for game.
BlackPaladin
Profile Joined May 2010
United States9316 Posts
August 08 2012 04:43 GMT
#1640
Vaporized has got this game figured out man. They should bench TOO and make this man TSM's main jungler.
"Your full potential does not matter if you do not use all 100% of it."
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