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On August 08 2012 08:45 Dark_Chill wrote:
Can Zyra's utility and early harass/zoning make her a possible support pick? She seems like she could really give a good advantage to her ad carry early on, enough so that her falling off a bit harder than other supports shouldn't matter too much.
I remember seeing a higher elo TLer on a featured game playing it. They didnt do very well (like 0-6-3 early on) so I won't mention their name.
I can see it being someone successful but her cc does not seem reliable enough to pick her over say Taric. She also seems to scale extremely well with levels - Progressive massive CDR reduction with levels in w, plant damage scales with levels, q cooldown scales with levels, passive scales with levels - so her damage will not be very good as well as being able to consistently use e, so it seems that it would be much better to send her mid. It is definitely worth a try though, especially she gets so much free cdr
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On August 08 2012 06:19 Kaniol wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 06:11 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On August 08 2012 06:08 wei2coolman wrote:
The only top tier pro player that has been here, (to my knowledge) was locodoco, and he doesn't even post that much anymore. Loci, TreeEski, Lexvink have all been on TL at one point or another as well. Aaand Locust. All 3 "Loc" players were here )
Dyrus has like one post on here... talking shit to me.
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On August 08 2012 08:13 NeoIllusions wrote:
TF has so much map control. You just need to not fk sk early game and get set behind.
TF would be a big threat in Regi's arsenal if he learned it properly but he's so aggro in lane. TF is pretty passive early.
I think it really depends on the jungler. But levels 1-5 TF is incredibly strong and he should be abused as much as possible before the lane hits level 6, if tf can force the other laner back before level 6 then the game usually snowballs from there after a successful gank. Some junglers can make TF really miserable though (alistar, naut, maokai, lee sin)
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United States37500 Posts
All those Junglers are a pain for Mid, Ali esp. I don't see how it's just TF who suffers here.
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so apparently diana outtrades irelia in lane with all spells up
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I've played like 5 ish games in ranked with Diana so far. Done pretty well 4-1 as of now. It's not really much if anything to make a definitive statement, but I've been doing basically Udyr rune/mastery setup.
So aspd reds, armor yellow, mres blue, mspd quints. I like aspd reds over mpdn reds since you're probably going to be farming more than ganking 'til 6 and the aspd reds help you clear a bit faster by procing your passive which is a pretty big nuke. Then 0/21/9 grabbing the necessary defensive masteries+movespeed in utility. This is mostly because I like staying high hp and Diana has no problems doing lots of damage w/out 9 or 21 in offense. Movespeed quints and utility masteries because Diana has the highest base movespeed in the game, tied with Yi and Panth. With movespeed quints and masteries I start the game with 350 movespeed and can afford to open with pendant without feeling too slow. It also lets me sit on boots 1 with 400+ movespeed for a long time w/out feeling bad.
I build philo/kage cause philo is great and you could do with more sustain, especially with how spammy you are. Kage 'cause I don't like hog much anymore and I like my gold. It also gives the option to build into DFG later, although I'm not convinced DFG is that good on Diana. I follow with Abyssal cuz Dcap too expensive and I feel like Diana's job is to get in and set up for your AP carry, which Abyssal is very beneficial for. Follow up with Zhonyas, Dcap, Rylais to get tankier. Been seeing success with this, but I can't help but feel it's not optimal since Abyssal/Zhonyas route really doesn't take advantage of your good ratios and her base damages aren't particularly amazing. I want to fit in a Grail in there somewhere since cdr is amazing on Diana + it'll let you give up blue and not ever feel mana starved even when spamming nonstop. Dcap also super good, but probably never going to afford it until mid-late game as a jungler.
I'm also not convinced she's a good choice for mid, not so much because she can't mid lane well, but because it's nice to be able to combo Diana with another burst caster. She trades extremely well though. Top might actually not be too bad. You'll definitely need proper warding since you have no escape, but her passive honestly shouldn't be an issue. It has an internal cd of like ~3 seconds and the aoe of the passive is pretty darn small. You're more likely to push with Q and W spam than with your passive.
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It also gives the option to build into DFG later, although I'm not convinced DFG is that good on Dian
I think you should get DFG on Diana in every single game (obv if you can afford it and probably not rush it first) its just a great item overall and gives you additional cdr (considering you will most likely not get the blue because most aps need it more then her)
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Lol Nunu top making Dyrus go on tilt. Smash what have you done!?!
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I'd prefer to advocate FH over Zhonya. Zhonya is great if you can get it, but it's very very expensive, and I feel better sitting on Glacial until FH rather than just Chain Vest until I can affort a NLR and Zhonya. CDR isn't bad comparatively, either, and the aura will be good since you're diving the AD.
If I'm fed I'd probably go Zhonya just for the sick damage and burst, but probably not my first choice for armor.
As far as DFG goes, I think it's a good idea to hold on to Kage at least long enough to see if anyone goes health-heavy. It's a nice transition if they end up buying RoA, Rylai, FMallet, or Warmog's.
I don't know, I've been musing on a more damage build, going Philo/Kage -> Guise/Sheen(/DRings) -> Lichbane/more AP items, which feels like it has a decently smooth transition. Dunno, I'll probably like tankier stuff later on, though.
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On August 08 2012 09:59 NeoIllusions wrote:
All those Junglers are a pain for Mid, Ali esp. I don't see how it's just TF who suffers here.
Because they all go through his stun. Also he doesn't get magic shields, speed buffs, dashes, enough burst to kill a ganker or anything at all.
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Froggen said he enjoyed "Angel Beats", "Baka to Test", "Mayo Chiki" and "Shakugan No Shana". If he wasn't one of my favourite players before, he just cemented a place in my heart.
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is it just me, or is draven seriously underrated?
like, this is purely anecdotal evidence, but every time i've seen draven, either on streams or in my own games, they get 20+ kills and go legendary multiple times in a single game. The only time i've ever seen a draven do poorly was in the first 2 days he was released.
idk, mybe it's just me
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So Diana just seems like another standard overpowered release champ.
What do you guys think?
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New Lee Sin skin is so dumb looking. I mean, it looks fine, but that run and auto animation is the dumbest damn thing ever.
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On August 08 2012 11:01 Abenson wrote:
So Diana just seems like another standard overpowered release champ.
What do you guys think?
My friends are all convinced she's extremely broken/"OP", but a majority of posts I've seen just say she's got a good kit. Haven't got to try her due to bans or others picking before me :/
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On August 08 2012 10:43 Requizen wrote:
I'd prefer to advocate FH over Zhonya. Zhonya is great if you can get it, but it's very very expensive, and I feel better sitting on Glacial until FH rather than just Chain Vest until I can affort a NLR and Zhonya. CDR isn't bad comparatively, either, and the aura will be good since you're diving the AD.
If I'm fed I'd probably go Zhonya just for the sick damage and burst, but probably not my first choice for armor.
As far as DFG goes, I think it's a good idea to hold on to Kage at least long enough to see if anyone goes health-heavy. It's a nice transition if they end up buying RoA, Rylai, FMallet, or Warmog's.
I don't know, I've been musing on a more damage build, going Philo/Kage -> Guise/Sheen(/DRings) -> Lichbane/more AP items, which feels like it has a decently smooth transition. Dunno, I'll probably like tankier stuff later on, though.
Zhonyas is quite expensive, but honestly I don't think going full tank is all that great on her. Diana's base damages aren't amazing but her ratios are strong. Zhonyas also lets you dive into the enemy team balls deep and have a grace period to let your team clean up/wait for your cds and disengage. CDR is nice, but I'd rather get it from other sources like a Grail.
Diana's definitely pretty strong, but iunno if I've seen enough of her to call her OP yet. She's got great damage, but nothing too over the top and she's pretty all-in when she tries to use her full rotation since she has no reliable way of disengaging. I mean, why do people think she's OP? Damage-wise she's not out of line with other assassins/AP champs. Mobility wise she falls behind Ahri and Kassadin. She's somewhat tanky for building AP, but not more so than say Rumble.
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Picked up Nautilus recently and my god is he absurd. 7-1 with 6.3 kda. After previously only playing carry/semi-carry junglers, playing a support jungler is really a breath of fresh air. No need to worry about farming jungle, you can let mid have it, and just camp top, and because of Gp10, NP. Very fast oracles, and then just give the enemy team claustrophobia as you stroll around picking off vision left and right.
Also Diana feels a lot like akali in games I've had where she's been picked. Very, very strong in spread out team fights and small skirmishes like an assassin should be, not so strong against grouped up teams with medium - high amounts of CC.
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i dont understand all this 'you cant get dcap on a jungler' nonsense.
i have gone philo - hextech - sorc boots - dcap. i got guise instead of hextech in one game. the latest ive finished that core is 23 minutes in 3 games, earliest was 20 minutes. my score is 3-0-2, 2-0-3, 4-0-2 when i buy dcap in those 3 games, with ~160 cs. she can move around the jungle and clear insanely fast with q-r. this is pretty much the only jungler that i can clear all the camps (minus buffs) and have 10-15 sec left before the first camp will respawn again.
i just had my first game that went past a 25 min surrender. i had wota, dcap, void staff, abyssal, philo, sorc boots at the end. diana's burst gets pretty insane at later lvls and with items.
ive also come around on her e. that ability is really good. its range was a little bigger then i gave it credit for also.
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On August 08 2012 11:25 Vaporized wrote:
i dont understand all this 'you cant get dcap on a jungler' nonsense.
i have gone philo - hextech - sorc boots - dcap. i got guise instead of hextech in one game. the latest ive finished that core is 23 minutes in 3 games, earliest was 20 minutes. my score is 3-0-2, 2-0-3, 4-0-2 when i buy dcap in those 3 games, with ~160 cs. she can move around the jungle and clear insanely fast with q-r. this is pretty much the only jungler that i can clear all the camps (minus buffs) and have 10-15 sec left before the first camp will respawn again.
i just had my first game that went past a 25 min surrender. i had wota, dcap, void staff, abyssal, philo, sorc boots at the end. diana's burst gets pretty insane at later lvls and with items.
ive also come around on her e. that ability is really good. its range was a little bigger then i gave it credit for also.
You can't get dcap on a jungler unless a. you're getting crazy fed from ganks or b. you ignore your lanes and farm for 15 minutes. Your build of philo-hextech-sorc-dcap costs 6350 gold. There is absolutely no way you can farm that in the jungle within 20~23 minutes unless you are getting lots of kills/assists. It's literally mathematically impossible to get that much gold without getting fed. In 20 minutes, the jungle generates slightly over 3.5k gold and that's assuming you clear every single camp the second it spawns -.-
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Zyra is still pretty dumb... her snare moving a million miles an hour through a dozen minions to snare you is still fundamentally retarded. Can't do anything as a low range champion like Annie against her, cept pray they're stupid and let you flash/tibbers stun them dead. Then you compare the AOE of Tibbers to her ult and just weep.
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EPT
