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On August 04 2012 06:41 Doctorbeat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 06:24 Craton wrote:
So I waited a bit to get accustomed to the new queue system before passing judgement.
In summary: It's garbage.
There were three problems involved with queuing: first pick not placing bans, players hard-randoming, and games starting with a D/C. This change did not solve a single one of the problems.
Being present at the start of CS does not mean you are present at the time of your pick or at the time the game starts. It's extremely common (significantly moreso) that someone who misses a pick or is offline when a game starts WAS there at the start of the game. That significant majority of cases is still unaccounted for. This also goes for not being present at the time of bans.
People STILL wait until the middle or end of queue to dodge games if they are against a champ they don't like, are forced into a role they don't like, or decide randomly they don't want to play.
Finally, this new system is EXTREMELY onerous. Rather than decreasing dodges or otherwise increasing the speed of queues, it does the exact opposite. You must now wait for every person to accept and often go through multiple declines before a game starts (only to then go through the typical dodge process). Additionally, you have to CONSTANTLY re-accept over and over and over with each decline and dodge. This can amount to needing to hit that button dozens of times in just a few hours of playing.
This system is a complete failure because it misses what the real problem is, and as a result of that misunderstanding, ends up addressing it in a roundabout way that simply doesn't have the results we want. Harsher punishment for dodging would fix most things, along with pre-game reports possible with the saved pre-game chat logs on Tribunal. Just increase punishment for multiple dodges. 1 Dodge, you wait 10 mins, 2 dodges you wait an hour, 3 dodges you wait 3 hours, 4 dodges 6 hours, 5 dodges can't queue for 24 hours. @CH: Thanks, it might be my own perception yeah. I'll try and find out if it's a structural problem.
1 Dodge you wait 30minutes actually and no one gives a shit, sometiems it takes 10mins before you can play because some asswipe dodges 1sec before teh game goes live. Every single time.
That's ranked only, even more annoying in draft normals where it's less than 30mins so people dodge even more.
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Thinking about it a little more, I think the accept/decline system is great for party play, but bad for solo play (imo). With parties, it's harder to organize 3+ people and make sure everybody is ready before starting queue (I've had tons of queue's where this happens and some1 has to dodge as a result). In solo play though, I feel like this happens a loot less often.
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One thing that particularly annoys me about the new system is that everything just blurs out and becomes unclickable for about 5 seconds, even when someone declines instantly. This delay just feels clunky, and it does not appear to have any use. For example, the "someone dodged" message appears behind the blurriness, but you can't even click it away, because everything will continue to be blurry for some more seconds while the game obviously has already been dodged.
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On August 04 2012 06:24 Craton wrote:
Being present at the start of CS does not mean you are present at the time of your pick or at the time the game starts. It's extremely common (significantly moreso) that someone who misses a pick or is offline when a game starts WAS there at the start of the game. That significant majority of cases is still unaccounted for. This also goes for not being present at the time of bans.
This point boggles my mind. If the majority of champion select AFKs have historically occurred after picks/bans have already started I have very little to say beyond "wtf are people doing?".
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Yo dudes if you don't want to watch that laggy ass MLG stream you could watch Shakedrizzle and smashgizmo play against each other in the featured game.
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Oh man, low elo is fucking hilarious~ I go 10-4-10 as nunu top, completely carried entire team~, every team fight was a double or triple kill from me. Team still convinced nunu is bad as top. Oh man, I luv you smash <3
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On August 04 2012 07:14 wei2coolman wrote:
Oh man, low elo is fucking hilarious~ I go 10-4-10 as nunu top, completely carried entire team~, every team fight was a double or triple kill from me. Team still convinced nunu is bad as top. Oh man, I luv you smash <3
Yeah im having the same experiance around 1300 Elo every since people in this thread mentioned he was OP with the buffs he got.
Nunu sucks/trollpick/no lategame and then you roll a lane and win yet another game.
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On August 04 2012 07:31 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 07:14 wei2coolman wrote:
Oh man, low elo is fucking hilarious~ I go 10-4-10 as nunu top, completely carried entire team~, every team fight was a double or triple kill from me. Team still convinced nunu is bad as top. Oh man, I luv you smash <3 Yeah im having the same experiance around 1300 Elo every since people in this thread mentioned he was OP with the buffs he got. Nunu sucks/trollpick/no lategame and then you roll a lane and win yet another game.
Not even just roll laning phase, he just rolls the shit out of late game too, people are like "he does no dmg except for his ult", they seem to forget he has one of the best AS steroid buff for teammates, and one of the better debuffs in the game as well.
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Just played him jungle and although I fucked my timings and barely got any gank successful, this guy is pretty much god in little skirmishes. I kind of enjoyed playing him support but man he's good with items.
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On August 04 2012 07:40 -Zoda- wrote:
Just played him jungle and although I fucked my timings and barely got any gank successful, this guy is pretty much god in little skirmishes. I kind of enjoyed playing him support but man he's good with items.
His full 6 items is fairly cheap too, so he reaches his lategame power peak a lot faster than other champions, which helps dominate when first baron is a major objective.
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As much as I like to afk during champ select (for short periods) or loading screen... why not just make the "ready up" or whatever thing occur after both sides have their teams selected?
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On August 04 2012 06:34 Doctorbeat wrote:Btw, have they increased the hitblocks for creeps? I keep getting creepblocked all the time now, never used to happen before 
I got the same problems. I was using Leona and tried to get cs while my carry wasn't there, and Leona spazzed out among the creeps for a bit. I don't think I used to have those problems.
Also, I like the new system. If all of those declines and afks had a chance to ruin the game, I think it's pretty good. It just means you have to be committed and focused when entering queues. Only thing I would change is more penalties for dodges/declines and less lag after the selection/tally is done.
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On August 04 2012 07:45 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
As much as I like to afk during champ select (for short periods) or loading screen... why not just make the "ready up" or whatever thing occur after both sides have their teams selected?
Well, a perfect solution for ranked is this:
If you really go AFK, and you get reported then convicted. All the ELO loss is poured onto you and restored to teammates.
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On August 04 2012 08:07 Dark_Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 06:34 Doctorbeat wrote:Btw, have they increased the hitblocks for creeps? I keep getting creepblocked all the time now, never used to happen before I got the same problems. I was using Leona and tried to get cs while my carry wasn't there, and Leona spazzed out among the creeps for a bit. I don't think I used to have those problems. Also, I like the new system. If all of those declines and afks had a chance to ruin the game, I think it's pretty good. It just means you have to be committed and focused when entering queues. Only thing I would change is more penalties for dodges/declines and less lag after the selection/tally is done.
I agree with longer, or at least A penalty for dodging both the initial accept and the dodge at champ select.
For me personally I'd rather take a 10 elo loss for a very blatant troll team and queue again rather than wait an hour. Guess I'll wait and see how everything plays out. Riot's customer service has been very on par from what I've seen.
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On August 04 2012 08:32 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 07:45 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
As much as I like to afk during champ select (for short periods) or loading screen... why not just make the "ready up" or whatever thing occur after both sides have their teams selected? Well, a perfect solution for ranked is this: If you really go AFK, and you get reported then convicted. All the ELO loss is poured onto you and restored to teammates.
I recall a developer saying they wouldn't go for a system similar to the above, because it gives teams a reason to berate teammates into leaving a losing game (if say you were afk during champ select, but return at the start of the game).
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I'd rather not have to play whackamole hoping I don't miss a 10 second window amidst numerous declines and dodges. Harsher penalties just make things worse.
The only good solution is to recognize it's a failure and abandon it in favor of addressing the real underlying issues.
It's especially irritating when you have long periods between queue pops.
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Old man Craton laying down the wisdom 
In all seriousness though, you're right. It might be hard for some companies, but this is one of those times where they should probably just say "our bad", roll back the functionality, and look for a new solution.
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On August 04 2012 07:02 Seuss wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 06:24 Craton wrote:
Being present at the start of CS does not mean you are present at the time of your pick or at the time the game starts. It's extremely common (significantly moreso) that someone who misses a pick or is offline when a game starts WAS there at the start of the game. That significant majority of cases is still unaccounted for. This also goes for not being present at the time of bans. This point boggles my mind. If the majority of champion select AFKs have historically occurred after picks/bans have already started I have very little to say beyond "wtf are people doing?".
They get d/ced, lose power, PCs crash, bugsplat, client bugs out (e.g. refuses to accept a champion pick, doesn't load champions), etc.
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On August 04 2012 08:36 ocelotter wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 08:32 cLutZ wrote:On August 04 2012 07:45 I_Love_Bacon wrote:
As much as I like to afk during champ select (for short periods) or loading screen... why not just make the "ready up" or whatever thing occur after both sides have their teams selected? Well, a perfect solution for ranked is this: If you really go AFK, and you get reported then convicted. All the ELO loss is poured onto you and restored to teammates. I recall a developer saying they wouldn't go for a system similar to the above, because it gives teams a reason to berate teammates into leaving a losing game (if say you were afk during champ select, but return at the start of the game).
Yes well, thats rubbish. Teams already deteriorate badly when they are losing.
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EPT
