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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 04 2012 05:42 YouGotNothin wrote: Ha, her design was influenced by Lady Gaga! I thought I saw some similarities. I honestly see more of the GitS, she definitely has qualities that remind me of the Major. | ||
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xarchaosx
United States89 Posts
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On August 04 2012 05:54 xarchaosx wrote: Alright so I know that the meta revolves around team fighting but what would be the best comp if you wanted to say move more towards where dota is with push comps and taking towers early rather than the super passive style most lanes see now. could it be in any way viable and what team comp would be the best with what we have right now? Koreans are using a similar meta in ~50% of the OGN games, basically revolves around grabbing Graves, Cait or MF and trying to avoid the other teams ad carry i.e. lane the ad carry 2v1. Lulu and soraka are generally used for mana feed or help wave clearing, even a support tf game once. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 04 2012 05:54 xarchaosx wrote: Alright so I know that the meta revolves around team fighting but what would be the best comp if you wanted to say move more towards where dota is with push comps and taking towers early rather than the super passive style most lanes see now. could it be in any way viable and what team comp would be the best with what we have right now? First, punctuation and capitalization. I felt out of breath just reading that. As to your question, siege comps exist, generally revolving around long-range strong AD carries like Cait/Kog/Trist grouped with strong zoning potential champions. Ziggs works well, because his threat zone is so much longer than most other champions, Zyra has the potential to be this as well. You also have champions with strong peel, that can keep those "siege and poke" champions safe from divers like Jax and Irelia. Generally though, teamfighting comps are stronger, because most teams are focusing on fighting at objectives and getting lots of farms early in the game. That can change, probably once you see big teams do it in a tournament, the meta will change a bit. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
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YouGotNothin
United States907 Posts
On August 04 2012 05:43 Requizen wrote: I honestly see more of the GitS, she definitely has qualities that remind me of the Major. Really? not in appearance at least right? I mean Major wears like a ridiculous bikini thing (or skintight suit) and has short purple hair. | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 04 2012 06:03 Slusher wrote: no he means like pre 10 min tower kills(I assume), kog and trist don't have the early wave clear for that. It's happening and it's effective, just not in NA/EU yet. Ah, that type of comp, my misreading. I thought he just meant general "fight at enemy towers and never engage face to face" comps. On August 04 2012 06:04 YouGotNothin wrote: Really? not in appearance at least right? I mean Major wears like a ridiculous bikini thing (or skintight suit) and has short purple hair. A bit in appearance. Mostly emotionless/stoic woman with pale skin and athletic build. Mostly actions and personality, she has that detached type of feeling in her quotes and motions. Also, her skin kind of has that leotard look and has purple hair, so there's that. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 04 2012 05:54 xarchaosx wrote: Alright so I know that the meta revolves around team fighting but what would be the best comp if you wanted to say move more towards where dota is with push comps and taking towers early rather than the super passive style most lanes see now. could it be in any way viable and what team comp would be the best with what we have right now? There's some team comps that want to take fast towers. I've seen tournament games where teams do such like 2v1 top and use the advantage to take that turret within 6 minutes (Dignitas vs... I forget. Recent game.) "Poke comps" are pretty good at this, because they can be very good at forcing the opposing team to back off from a tower so they can take it. It's not just about killing minions (that helps) but also about making it unsafe for champions to clear THEIR minions. You want a few things on your team - good wave clear, good zoning, and especially good counter-initiation/disengaging power. Build your team around these desirables - especially those Some concrete examples of a comp like this could be based around: AP Mid - Anivia is an obvious go-to for strats like this for about a billion reasons. 600 auto range, super good waveclear and zoning with her ulti and even just her Q, and the wall, oh the wall - even with only 1 point, it can make it very hard to properly engage at a tower. Cassiopea would also be good, again - wave clear, zoning, and great counter-initiation from her ultimate. (Your AP mid will still probably get 6 pretty quickly, after all. Not expecting it from everyone before towers start falling, though.) AD Carry - Here's a niche where Caitlyn really shines. She's got range for safe towerpoke and good zoning people out from under the tower by tossing down aggressively placed traps. Ashe can do some scary zoning with her ulti at 6, but it might be too scary to dive whoever she stuns, and ashe has no disengage (disengage is very important here - they're GOING to want to try to hard engage upon you when you're pressuring their turrets so early. You don't want to let them.) And even if it goes late, you don't have to be worried Other mentionables - You want to be able to handle possibly fighting at/under the enemy tower, and handle teamfighting early in the game. For support, this leads to picks like Alistar. Or you could aim for more counter-initiation and team aura power like Sona. Trundle is a classic poke comp pick to use his pillar to force enemies off their tower and his ultimate to turn their tanky initiator into a squishy chump. Could be useful here. Yorick's ghouls can provide extra tower tanking&damage from a safe distance. I could go on forever, there's plenty of champions who could fit the bill of a game plan consisting of "we want to push towers hard and fast" already in the game. We just haven't seen teams use this as their game plan. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On August 04 2012 06:19 Requizen wrote: Push comps, of course, have their downsides. Once you drop that tower, it's hard to farm past river safely. At that point, the enemy jungler has really easy gank/kill potential, and your laner needs to be super safe or take jungle creeps. On the other hand, if you drop all the first towers at the same time (to make the enemy jungler spread out, so to speak) and have very good ward coverage, you gain super map control. Especially that mid tower. It becomes much more unsafe for the enemy jungler after mid tower goes down. One of the problems you can encounter however, is if they pick up an early oracles, it can be hard to maintain the deep wards you want to be using when having outer turrets down early on. | ||
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Craton
United States17264 Posts
In summary: It's garbage. There were three problems involved with queuing: first pick not placing bans, players hard-randoming, and games starting with a D/C. This change did not solve a single one of the problems. Being present at the start of CS does not mean you are present at the time of your pick or at the time the game starts. It's extremely common (significantly moreso) that someone who misses a pick or is offline when a game starts WAS there at the start of the game. That significant majority of cases is still unaccounted for. This also goes for not being present at the time of bans. People STILL wait until the middle or end of queue to dodge games if they are against a champ they don't like, are forced into a role they don't like, or decide randomly they don't want to play. Finally, this new system is EXTREMELY onerous. Rather than decreasing dodges or otherwise increasing the speed of queues, it does the exact opposite. You must now wait for every person to accept and often go through multiple declines before a game starts (only to then go through the typical dodge process). Additionally, you have to CONSTANTLY re-accept over and over and over with each decline and dodge. This can amount to needing to hit that button dozens of times in just a few hours of playing. This system is a complete failure because it misses what the real problem is, and as a result of that misunderstanding, ends up addressing it in a roundabout way that simply doesn't have the results we want. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
On August 04 2012 06:24 Craton wrote: So I waited a bit to get accustomed to the new queue system before passing judgement. In summary: It's garbage. There were three problems involved with queuing: first pick not placing bans, players hard-randoming, and games starting with a D/C. This change did not solve a single one of the problems. Being present at the start of CS does not mean you are present at the time of your pick or at the time the game starts. It's extremely common (significantly moreso) that someone who misses a pick or is offline when a game starts WAS there at the start of the game. That significant majority of cases is still unaccounted for. This also goes for not being present at the time of bans. People STILL wait until the middle or end of queue to dodge games if they are against a champ they don't like, are forced into a role they don't like, or decide randomly they don't want to play. Finally, this new system is EXTREMELY onerous. Rather than decreasing dodges or otherwise increasing the speed of queues, it does the exact opposite. You must now wait for every person to accept and often go through multiple declines before a game starts (only to then go through the typical dodge process). Additionally, you have to CONSTANTLY re-accept over and over and over with each decline and dodge. This can amount to needing to hit that button dozens of times in just a few hours of playing. This system is a complete failure because it misses what is the real problem and addresses it in a roundabout way that simply doesn't have the results we want. You're a bit late and it's mostly common sense that Riot seems to not possess but I agree with you. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 04 2012 06:23 sylverfyre wrote: Especially that mid tower. It becomes much more unsafe for the enemy jungler after mid tower goes down. The difficult thing is getting the timing down. If you push, say, top tower down first, the enemy top will just let the wave push, then farm past where his tower was, and going forward is scary because now the jungler has way too many ganking paths. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
I don't actually know, since i wasn't on at all yesterday, but it sounds like it. Idk, it doesn't seem like it would actually help at all in decreasing queue times at all, although it kinda helps when you're in queue, and don't want to queue again after a dodge, for whatever reason, or for ppl who just forgot they queued. That seems like all it's good for though, which seems a bit useless for all of the extra hassle. | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
I keep getting creepblocked all the time now, never used to happen before  | ||
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
On August 04 2012 06:34 Doctorbeat wrote: Btw, have they increased the hitblocks for creeps? I keep getting creepblocked all the time now, never used to happen before There have been some behind-the-scenes changes to the game engine the last few patches. But the functionality should still be the same. Think it's just your perception. | ||
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Nos-
Canada12016 Posts
On August 04 2012 06:34 barbsq wrote: isn't the new queue system the same as what dota2 does (being the accept/decline system)? I don't actually know, since i wasn't on at all yesterday, but it sounds like it. Idk, it doesn't seem like it would actually help at all in decreasing queue times at all, although it kinda helps when you're in queue, and don't want to queue again after a dodge, for whatever reason, or for ppl who just forgot they queued. That seems like all it's good for though, which seems a bit useless for all of the extra hassle. Yes DotA 2 uses the same system. | ||
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Doctorbeat
Netherlands13241 Posts
On August 04 2012 06:24 Craton wrote: So I waited a bit to get accustomed to the new queue system before passing judgement. In summary: It's garbage. There were three problems involved with queuing: first pick not placing bans, players hard-randoming, and games starting with a D/C. This change did not solve a single one of the problems. Being present at the start of CS does not mean you are present at the time of your pick or at the time the game starts. It's extremely common (significantly moreso) that someone who misses a pick or is offline when a game starts WAS there at the start of the game. That significant majority of cases is still unaccounted for. This also goes for not being present at the time of bans. People STILL wait until the middle or end of queue to dodge games if they are against a champ they don't like, are forced into a role they don't like, or decide randomly they don't want to play. Finally, this new system is EXTREMELY onerous. Rather than decreasing dodges or otherwise increasing the speed of queues, it does the exact opposite. You must now wait for every person to accept and often go through multiple declines before a game starts (only to then go through the typical dodge process). Additionally, you have to CONSTANTLY re-accept over and over and over with each decline and dodge. This can amount to needing to hit that button dozens of times in just a few hours of playing. This system is a complete failure because it misses what the real problem is, and as a result of that misunderstanding, ends up addressing it in a roundabout way that simply doesn't have the results we want. Harsher punishment for dodging would fix most things, along with pre-game reports possible with the saved pre-game chat logs on Tribunal. Just increase punishment for multiple dodges. 1 Dodge, you wait 10 mins, 2 dodges you wait an hour, 3 dodges you wait 3 hours, 4 dodges 6 hours, 5 dodges can't queue for 24 hours. @CH: Thanks, it might be my own perception yeah. I'll try and find out if it's a structural problem. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On August 04 2012 06:41 Doctorbeat wrote: Harsher punishment for dodging would fix most things, along with pre-game reports possible with the saved pre-game chat logs on Tribunal. Just increase punishment for multiple dodges. 1 Dodge, you wait 10 mins, 2 dodges you wait an hour, 3 dodges you wait 3 hours, 4 dodges 6 hours, 5 dodges can't queue for 24 hours. @CH: Thanks, it might be my own perception yeah. I'll try and find out if it's a structural problem. Aren't dodges already harsher than that? 30 minutes dodging first, 30 minutes more for each after that. IMO just bring the ELO punishment back. It sucked losing it when you had to duck out because of an emergency or something, but sitting through 8 queues is fucking absurd. | ||
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