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On August 04 2012 00:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:
when are you supposed to go gp10 as caster?
The only times i go gp10 are when i'm against a bruiser mid or when i want a fast dfg (annie, veigar, sometimes ahri). Sometimes both happen at the same time since dfg is pretty nice against bruisers. And that's only kages, I don't ever go philo or hog.
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On August 04 2012 00:52 zulu_nation8 wrote:
when are you supposed to go gp10 as caster?
dunno about casters specifically, but gp10 are most ideal either in situations where there is little to no aggression, or you specifically want guaranteed gold while roaming. Rules are probably similar for casters.
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On August 03 2012 22:03 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 21:41 Gahlo wrote:On August 03 2012 20:11 Alaric wrote:
Diana's dark valkyrie skin's model so cool. I don't think I'd run her tho, unless her mobility or the way you can build her allow survivability.
I also tought Ryze had the worst portrait (far ahead of Morde) since they redid his splash art. Then we hopped into a coop for quick daily win and Cass bot happened... The builds I've seen people throw around most often buil ROA, Rylais, and resist boosting AP items. I'm not convinced. Looking at her kit, it looks like it has a lot of function similar to Jax that I'd want to try out a jax-like build based on triforce & gunblade. It's not like AD items are a waste when you get some free AS from passive. Though, depending on the shield ability, you might want more resist-focused items and less HP-focused items (nixing ROA & Rylais). Doubly so if lifesteal/spellvamp turns out to be a preferred itemization choice. To be honest, ROA Rylais is a poor combination of items - you get an OK amount of AP, some mana, and a butt-ton of HP - comparable HP to warmogs. There is probably a better way to spend your first 6k gold. Maybe one or the other of ROA & Rylais, but you shouldn't be looking to build both of them without something else in between.
I personally haven't played any full games with her, only toying around with jungle routes. Was only listing common items I've seen.
One thing that my friend pointed out is that her base AS is kinda low. That way the boost form her passive gives her a decent AS without making AS scale too strongly on her.
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GP10 on mid champs is just asking to get shit on midgame. It's funny on Karthus when your team doesn't expect to do anything til late, or sometimes on TF I guess (i bad tf), but all in all, I hate gp10s on mid champs.
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On August 04 2012 01:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:
GP10 on mid champs is just asking to get shit on midgame. It's funny on Karthus when your team doesn't expect to do anything til late, or sometimes on TF I guess (i bad tf), but all in all, I hate gp10s on mid champs.
I guess the idea behind GP10 TF is that in the midgame your gank works because you use it as "I have a global stun" more than anything else. Hurts the waveclear bigtime, though.
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On August 04 2012 01:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:
GP10 on mid champs is just asking to get shit on midgame. It's funny on Karthus when your team doesn't expect to do anything til late, or sometimes on TF I guess (i bad tf), but all in all, I hate gp10s on mid champs.
if you're galio vs morg, for example, or some matchups with mordekaiser, it seems like that lane would literally go nowhere for the first 25+ minutes, so it might be a good idea to grab pick + philo or something similar and farm the lane for awhile. Idk, i'm really not an expert on mid, but it seems like a fringe case worth considering in a few matchups.
In general, though, I def agree that most of the time mid lane is too high-octane to be able to afford to play that passively.
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On August 04 2012 01:53 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 01:37 jcarlsoniv wrote:
GP10 on mid champs is just asking to get shit on midgame. It's funny on Karthus when your team doesn't expect to do anything til late, or sometimes on TF I guess (i bad tf), but all in all, I hate gp10s on mid champs. if you're galio vs morg, for example, or some matchups with mordekaiser, it seems like that lane would literally go nowhere for the first 25+ minutes, so it might be a good idea to grab pick + philo or something similar and farm the lane for awhile. Idk, i'm really not an expert on mid, but it seems like a fringe case worth considering in a few matchups. In general, though, I def agree that most of the time mid lane is too high-octane to be able to afford to play that passively.
Yeah, sure, it can work in farm lanes. However, it weakens your early/mid game so much that if you're needed elsewhere and your lane opponent has chosen actual damage, your team is at a disadvantage. In solo queue it can work because people won't always take advantage of you having GP10s and it can be difficult to hard engage on some mids.
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On August 03 2012 07:59 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 07:04 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2012 07:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i always thought you're supposed to max E over Q as kassadin but i've seen a lot who max Q, is it lane dependent? everyone maxes Q. maxing E is super situational for when your opponent always charges it up for you and you need to be able to quickly shove the lane back at them (morde I guess?) Didn't Uta say that he would max E against Sivir (back when we had old Sivir and she actually solo-laned)? Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 07:41 epoc wrote:
You clearly missed the point. "If she was ap carry.." meant that the ratio is low. It's low for an ap carry and it's even lower if you the most ap you will get is tf wota and baron buff
Epoc, you're thinking about this the wrong way. Riot CAN'T and SHOULDN'T be designing champs to be shoehorned into a particular role before they're even in the game. It leads to stale design (which they've already been accused of), and little variation, because if Riot goes into the design thinking "we want X champion to perform Y role" they arbitrarily impose restrictions on what skills the champ can and can't have. The simple reason for why there's an AP ratio on Irelia's E is that they couldn't know at design that she wasn't going to be strong as an AP champ. Her E had a higher ratio at release, her R still has one, and her Q has synergy with Sheen/Lichbane. Even now that she's recognized as a bruiser, there's no guarantee that the ratio won't be critical to a build sometime in the future.
Janna nerfs disprove this. Riot seems to be trying pretty hard to make sure Janna cannot go anywhere other than bot support.
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On August 04 2012 02:03 Dark_Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 07:59 TheYango wrote:On August 03 2012 07:04 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2012 07:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i always thought you're supposed to max E over Q as kassadin but i've seen a lot who max Q, is it lane dependent? everyone maxes Q. maxing E is super situational for when your opponent always charges it up for you and you need to be able to quickly shove the lane back at them (morde I guess?) Didn't Uta say that he would max E against Sivir (back when we had old Sivir and she actually solo-laned)? On August 03 2012 07:41 epoc wrote:
You clearly missed the point. "If she was ap carry.." meant that the ratio is low. It's low for an ap carry and it's even lower if you the most ap you will get is tf wota and baron buff
Epoc, you're thinking about this the wrong way. Riot CAN'T and SHOULDN'T be designing champs to be shoehorned into a particular role before they're even in the game. It leads to stale design (which they've already been accused of), and little variation, because if Riot goes into the design thinking "we want X champion to perform Y role" they arbitrarily impose restrictions on what skills the champ can and can't have. The simple reason for why there's an AP ratio on Irelia's E is that they couldn't know at design that she wasn't going to be strong as an AP champ. Her E had a higher ratio at release, her R still has one, and her Q has synergy with Sheen/Lichbane. Even now that she's recognized as a bruiser, there's no guarantee that the ratio won't be critical to a build sometime in the future. Janna nerfs disprove this. Riot seems to be trying pretty hard to make sure Janna cannot go anywhere other than bot support.
Eh, you don't exactly take Janna Mid to do a million damage with your W. You pick her to push harder than anyone can possibly handle while providing immense supportive utility and a good slow. You're not gonna combo anyone anyway unless they drop pretty low. You win fights out of superior control and shielding for like a million health.
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On August 04 2012 02:03 Dark_Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 07:59 TheYango wrote:On August 03 2012 07:04 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2012 07:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i always thought you're supposed to max E over Q as kassadin but i've seen a lot who max Q, is it lane dependent? everyone maxes Q. maxing E is super situational for when your opponent always charges it up for you and you need to be able to quickly shove the lane back at them (morde I guess?) Didn't Uta say that he would max E against Sivir (back when we had old Sivir and she actually solo-laned)? On August 03 2012 07:41 epoc wrote:
You clearly missed the point. "If she was ap carry.." meant that the ratio is low. It's low for an ap carry and it's even lower if you the most ap you will get is tf wota and baron buff
Epoc, you're thinking about this the wrong way. Riot CAN'T and SHOULDN'T be designing champs to be shoehorned into a particular role before they're even in the game. It leads to stale design (which they've already been accused of), and little variation, because if Riot goes into the design thinking "we want X champion to perform Y role" they arbitrarily impose restrictions on what skills the champ can and can't have. The simple reason for why there's an AP ratio on Irelia's E is that they couldn't know at design that she wasn't going to be strong as an AP champ. Her E had a higher ratio at release, her R still has one, and her Q has synergy with Sheen/Lichbane. Even now that she's recognized as a bruiser, there's no guarantee that the ratio won't be critical to a build sometime in the future. Janna nerfs disprove this. Riot seems to be trying pretty hard to make sure Janna cannot go anywhere other than bot support.
Janna mid was getting out of hand.
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On August 04 2012 02:03 Dark_Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 07:59 TheYango wrote:On August 03 2012 07:04 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2012 07:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i always thought you're supposed to max E over Q as kassadin but i've seen a lot who max Q, is it lane dependent? everyone maxes Q. maxing E is super situational for when your opponent always charges it up for you and you need to be able to quickly shove the lane back at them (morde I guess?) Didn't Uta say that he would max E against Sivir (back when we had old Sivir and she actually solo-laned)? On August 03 2012 07:41 epoc wrote:
You clearly missed the point. "If she was ap carry.." meant that the ratio is low. It's low for an ap carry and it's even lower if you the most ap you will get is tf wota and baron buff
Epoc, you're thinking about this the wrong way. Riot CAN'T and SHOULDN'T be designing champs to be shoehorned into a particular role before they're even in the game. It leads to stale design (which they've already been accused of), and little variation, because if Riot goes into the design thinking "we want X champion to perform Y role" they arbitrarily impose restrictions on what skills the champ can and can't have. The simple reason for why there's an AP ratio on Irelia's E is that they couldn't know at design that she wasn't going to be strong as an AP champ. Her E had a higher ratio at release, her R still has one, and her Q has synergy with Sheen/Lichbane. Even now that she's recognized as a bruiser, there's no guarantee that the ratio won't be critical to a build sometime in the future. Janna nerfs disprove this. Riot seems to be trying pretty hard to make sure Janna cannot go anywhere other than bot support.
Why, because they nerfed her W's AP ratio? That kind of stuff gets changed all the time, she can still run mid and insta-clear with Q/shield for a million health late game. She never was designed to be a super damage dealer.
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On August 04 2012 02:07 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 02:03 Dark_Chill wrote:On August 03 2012 07:59 TheYango wrote:On August 03 2012 07:04 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2012 07:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i always thought you're supposed to max E over Q as kassadin but i've seen a lot who max Q, is it lane dependent? everyone maxes Q. maxing E is super situational for when your opponent always charges it up for you and you need to be able to quickly shove the lane back at them (morde I guess?) Didn't Uta say that he would max E against Sivir (back when we had old Sivir and she actually solo-laned)? On August 03 2012 07:41 epoc wrote:
You clearly missed the point. "If she was ap carry.." meant that the ratio is low. It's low for an ap carry and it's even lower if you the most ap you will get is tf wota and baron buff
Epoc, you're thinking about this the wrong way. Riot CAN'T and SHOULDN'T be designing champs to be shoehorned into a particular role before they're even in the game. It leads to stale design (which they've already been accused of), and little variation, because if Riot goes into the design thinking "we want X champion to perform Y role" they arbitrarily impose restrictions on what skills the champ can and can't have. The simple reason for why there's an AP ratio on Irelia's E is that they couldn't know at design that she wasn't going to be strong as an AP champ. Her E had a higher ratio at release, her R still has one, and her Q has synergy with Sheen/Lichbane. Even now that she's recognized as a bruiser, there's no guarantee that the ratio won't be critical to a build sometime in the future. Janna nerfs disprove this. Riot seems to be trying pretty hard to make sure Janna cannot go anywhere other than bot support. Why, because they nerfed her W's AP ratio? That kind of stuff gets changed all the time, she can still run mid and insta-clear with Q/shield for a million health late game. She never was designed to be a super damage dealer.
And she wasn't. She didn't deal a ton of damage compared to most AP mids, and she wasn't really in a spot where she needed to be nerfed. The problem with the nerf is that it seems as if it happened just because Riot wants to discourage Janna mid.
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On August 04 2012 02:11 Dark_Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 02:07 Requizen wrote:On August 04 2012 02:03 Dark_Chill wrote:On August 03 2012 07:59 TheYango wrote:On August 03 2012 07:04 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2012 07:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i always thought you're supposed to max E over Q as kassadin but i've seen a lot who max Q, is it lane dependent? everyone maxes Q. maxing E is super situational for when your opponent always charges it up for you and you need to be able to quickly shove the lane back at them (morde I guess?) Didn't Uta say that he would max E against Sivir (back when we had old Sivir and she actually solo-laned)? On August 03 2012 07:41 epoc wrote:
You clearly missed the point. "If she was ap carry.." meant that the ratio is low. It's low for an ap carry and it's even lower if you the most ap you will get is tf wota and baron buff
Epoc, you're thinking about this the wrong way. Riot CAN'T and SHOULDN'T be designing champs to be shoehorned into a particular role before they're even in the game. It leads to stale design (which they've already been accused of), and little variation, because if Riot goes into the design thinking "we want X champion to perform Y role" they arbitrarily impose restrictions on what skills the champ can and can't have. The simple reason for why there's an AP ratio on Irelia's E is that they couldn't know at design that she wasn't going to be strong as an AP champ. Her E had a higher ratio at release, her R still has one, and her Q has synergy with Sheen/Lichbane. Even now that she's recognized as a bruiser, there's no guarantee that the ratio won't be critical to a build sometime in the future. Janna nerfs disprove this. Riot seems to be trying pretty hard to make sure Janna cannot go anywhere other than bot support. Why, because they nerfed her W's AP ratio? That kind of stuff gets changed all the time, she can still run mid and insta-clear with Q/shield for a million health late game. She never was designed to be a super damage dealer. And she wasn't. She didn't deal a ton of damage compared to most AP mids, and she wasn't really in a spot where she needed to be nerfed. The problem with the nerf is that it seems as if it happened just because Riot wants to discourage Janna mid.
Or maybe they just thought the ratio was too high. I can't number the number of times I killstole from my carry with W just from Kage or whatever. I'm not saying they were right to do so, but they could have made the change for any number of reasons, not just to pidgeon-hole.
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On August 04 2012 02:11 Dark_Chill wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 02:07 Requizen wrote:On August 04 2012 02:03 Dark_Chill wrote:On August 03 2012 07:59 TheYango wrote:On August 03 2012 07:04 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2012 07:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i always thought you're supposed to max E over Q as kassadin but i've seen a lot who max Q, is it lane dependent? everyone maxes Q. maxing E is super situational for when your opponent always charges it up for you and you need to be able to quickly shove the lane back at them (morde I guess?) Didn't Uta say that he would max E against Sivir (back when we had old Sivir and she actually solo-laned)? On August 03 2012 07:41 epoc wrote:
You clearly missed the point. "If she was ap carry.." meant that the ratio is low. It's low for an ap carry and it's even lower if you the most ap you will get is tf wota and baron buff
Epoc, you're thinking about this the wrong way. Riot CAN'T and SHOULDN'T be designing champs to be shoehorned into a particular role before they're even in the game. It leads to stale design (which they've already been accused of), and little variation, because if Riot goes into the design thinking "we want X champion to perform Y role" they arbitrarily impose restrictions on what skills the champ can and can't have. The simple reason for why there's an AP ratio on Irelia's E is that they couldn't know at design that she wasn't going to be strong as an AP champ. Her E had a higher ratio at release, her R still has one, and her Q has synergy with Sheen/Lichbane. Even now that she's recognized as a bruiser, there's no guarantee that the ratio won't be critical to a build sometime in the future. Janna nerfs disprove this. Riot seems to be trying pretty hard to make sure Janna cannot go anywhere other than bot support. Why, because they nerfed her W's AP ratio? That kind of stuff gets changed all the time, she can still run mid and insta-clear with Q/shield for a million health late game. She never was designed to be a super damage dealer. And she wasn't. She didn't deal a ton of damage compared to most AP mids, and she wasn't really in a spot where she needed to be nerfed. The problem with the nerf is that it seems as if it happened just because Riot wants to discourage Janna mid.
Not sure if you've actually played against Janna mid...
It's a ridiculously annoying mid to play against. It's worse than laning against Morg. She clears waves with incredible ease. She's near impossible to gank at all. She actually DOES deal quite a bit of damage in the mid game. Her late game makes it harder to kill any member of her team than a Soraka does.
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On August 04 2012 02:07 Nos- wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 02:03 Dark_Chill wrote:On August 03 2012 07:59 TheYango wrote:On August 03 2012 07:04 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2012 07:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i always thought you're supposed to max E over Q as kassadin but i've seen a lot who max Q, is it lane dependent? everyone maxes Q. maxing E is super situational for when your opponent always charges it up for you and you need to be able to quickly shove the lane back at them (morde I guess?) Didn't Uta say that he would max E against Sivir (back when we had old Sivir and she actually solo-laned)? On August 03 2012 07:41 epoc wrote:
You clearly missed the point. "If she was ap carry.." meant that the ratio is low. It's low for an ap carry and it's even lower if you the most ap you will get is tf wota and baron buff
Epoc, you're thinking about this the wrong way. Riot CAN'T and SHOULDN'T be designing champs to be shoehorned into a particular role before they're even in the game. It leads to stale design (which they've already been accused of), and little variation, because if Riot goes into the design thinking "we want X champion to perform Y role" they arbitrarily impose restrictions on what skills the champ can and can't have. The simple reason for why there's an AP ratio on Irelia's E is that they couldn't know at design that she wasn't going to be strong as an AP champ. Her E had a higher ratio at release, her R still has one, and her Q has synergy with Sheen/Lichbane. Even now that she's recognized as a bruiser, there's no guarantee that the ratio won't be critical to a build sometime in the future. Janna nerfs disprove this. Riot seems to be trying pretty hard to make sure Janna cannot go anywhere other than bot support. Janna mid was getting out of hand.
How so? I've never seen Janna mid.
I personally dislike most nerfs in the game.
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On August 04 2012 02:14 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 02:07 Nos- wrote:On August 04 2012 02:03 Dark_Chill wrote:On August 03 2012 07:59 TheYango wrote:On August 03 2012 07:04 Mogwai wrote:On August 03 2012 07:02 zulu_nation8 wrote:
i always thought you're supposed to max E over Q as kassadin but i've seen a lot who max Q, is it lane dependent? everyone maxes Q. maxing E is super situational for when your opponent always charges it up for you and you need to be able to quickly shove the lane back at them (morde I guess?) Didn't Uta say that he would max E against Sivir (back when we had old Sivir and she actually solo-laned)? On August 03 2012 07:41 epoc wrote:
You clearly missed the point. "If she was ap carry.." meant that the ratio is low. It's low for an ap carry and it's even lower if you the most ap you will get is tf wota and baron buff
Epoc, you're thinking about this the wrong way. Riot CAN'T and SHOULDN'T be designing champs to be shoehorned into a particular role before they're even in the game. It leads to stale design (which they've already been accused of), and little variation, because if Riot goes into the design thinking "we want X champion to perform Y role" they arbitrarily impose restrictions on what skills the champ can and can't have. The simple reason for why there's an AP ratio on Irelia's E is that they couldn't know at design that she wasn't going to be strong as an AP champ. Her E had a higher ratio at release, her R still has one, and her Q has synergy with Sheen/Lichbane. Even now that she's recognized as a bruiser, there's no guarantee that the ratio won't be critical to a build sometime in the future. Janna nerfs disprove this. Riot seems to be trying pretty hard to make sure Janna cannot go anywhere other than bot support. Janna mid was getting out of hand. How so? I've never seen Janna mid. I personally dislike most nerfs in the game.
Her tornado wave clears very early and very easily, with a bit of ap her W does very respectable damage with a pretty big slow, and her shield is just ridiculous late game since it can't be mitigated by heal reduction. Her ult also heals for a ton. She basically brings all of her utility as a support and then some. It's also hard to gank her cause you know, she's still Janna.
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I thought it was Janna top that they were worried about?
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Battlecast Cho'gath's out and the login music is awesome. On a scale of five to awesome it's an awesome.
No one likes Janna, not even support players. Always giving running buffs to everyone on her team, making it harder to hit people. I go with the Saint school of thought, ban her if you can.
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On August 04 2012 02:34 wei2coolman wrote:
I thought it was Janna top that they were worried about?
i thought it was jungle jannna those ganks mang
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