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United States47024 Posts
On August 10 2012 06:30 wei2coolman wrote:
From what it sounds like is diana needs more farm, than what the jungle can offer.
She doesn't, there's just an obsession with with wanting a solo laner's worth of damage out of her, when she doesn't need that much to function.
It's like Udyr--she can make use of a laner's worth of farm, but that doesn't mean she HAS to have that much farm to function. And she's strong enough in the jungle for it to be worthwhile to play her as one.
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Glass cannon Diana is high risk, high reward like Akali
All assassin comp, someone make it happen!
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So far I'm under the impression jungle diana doesn't work if you want any amount of high damage but mid dianas seems like the best shot. She seems to be like an assassin that works well with tank stats because she has to wait for q cdto jump. Like double drings rylais wits/ga worked pretty well for me.
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On August 10 2012 06:15 Requizen wrote:
Finally out of meetings, seems I'm highly in the minority in my opinions. Interesting, but not unprecedented. My low ELO probably does have quite a bit to do with it.
Ah well, she's obviously not been out long enough to know everything, and my skill is for sure on the lower end around here.
That said, maybe it was my specific builds that made my tanky AP Diana games feel weak. What would a consensus be on a build for her then? I did something like Sheen/Guise/Chalice/Glacial is no specific order, and just never felt like my damage or toughness was anything special. Could be I should go abyssal faster over Chalice for MR, and skip Guise or something. Thoughts?
You may be in the minority opinion but:- You were civil.
- You were well spoken.
- Your position wasn't without its merits.
You might have had the odd questionable assertion here or there, but overall you have a good head on your shoulders and it was a pleasure to debate the issue with you.
I would skip Guise. Diana has a shield, so resistances have higher value than health. For the same cost you can get Glacial or Chain Vest + parts of something else and be significantly tankier. If you're building both Sheen and Glacial I might skip Chalice simply because you'll have a large mana pool and if you're ganking aggressively you'll want to recall fairly often to recover health anyway, but then I haven't been building Sheen.
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On August 10 2012 06:30 wei2coolman wrote:
From what it sounds like is diana needs more farm, than what the jungle can offer.
from everything I've read I think you just need to build her accordingly, i.e. if you have jungle gold don't build for burst, but if you have lane farm, it can work, at least thats what I get out of it.
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On August 10 2012 06:24 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 10 2012 06:20 Bladeorade wrote:
I'm really liking Philo/Kages into Abyssal into FH then changing it up depending on the game. I have been getting Mercs or Sorcs, DFG/DC/Rylais/Shurelyas
I just dunno what I feel is best My issue with something like that, is that Abyssal isn't exactly cheap, so you're sitting on boots and 2 GP10s (I stopped getting Philo, btw, never felt a need for the health and her mp5 wasn't exactly keeping her topped off) while waiting for that. Do you feel that you can skip midgame AP items and still keep up while saving for 2650?
Ah why are you sitting on boots and 2 gp10s? I don't see whats stopping you from buying a wand and then a negatron. I like Philo for the extra gold and shurelyas because she has no escape and the extra MS helps to catch so I don't waste Philo. I really think going some AP first and THEN resistances (Wand -> Abyssal -> Vest -> Glacial) is much better then resistances -> AP since she does have good ratios. But thats just me.
The items i listed are never all built, thats just a list I have been choosing from. I think 1 time I had a full build and it was like mercs/abyssal/FH/Rylais/DFG/DC and felt really strong but that is a long shot to ever happen.
She also think her speed might get nerfed. Didn't they nerf Sejuani's W before she came out because it worked too well or something? Also did the same thing with Hecarim Q. And then they release Diana? Sounds like BS to me
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weird bug #29751: mid-picking client starts "lagging", chat comes in waves, and I can't see anyone's picks at all. ended up randoming and leaving because I got nasus >_> (supposedly, the client seemed to glitch and didn't show anyone's picks after first one).
fuck's sake riot, you have time to pump out champions every two weeks but can't replace the archaic bullshit that is the client? priorities, I guess.
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Man. I dunno what to make of Diana. I'm also not very good, but I've been opening boots, and going philo->pick->chalice->glacial->revolver and its felt really, really strong. I know this is pretty much exactly the Nunu build and that its not original in any way, but the GP10s really help get her going, and with any AP at all she hits like a damn truck. A truck that happens to suck you in and super mario jump-stomp you over and over. She ganks really hard after 6 and just from roaming I've gotten snowballed like crazy a few times. I don't know about Core, but Lich Bane is unreal on her after a little bit of AP.
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I don't understand the obsession on FH on diana. I know the resistance + cdr is extremely nice, but i'm pretty sure there are better options out there for her.
Just some thoughts on other item combo's that could work for her to get the CDR she needs.
reverie+dfg
reverie+unholy grail
unholy grail+dfg
nashor's tooth+randuins (also, her E would have amazing synergy with randuins active).
zeke's herald+etc.
As far as jungle is concerned, even farm heavy junglers still build mostly supporty aura items, It's pretty unreasonable for a jungle diana to get a DC in jungle, or anything that expensive (including abyssal), especially without any smaller item buildups. Most junglers have a linear powercurve, often slowly building up their power over small chunks of gold, around 500-700 gold at a time, that's also part of their success. waiting to long for big ticket item without the power from a mid-level item to build it to really hurts junglers. nocturne's, shyv's and mundo's, still build aotl, and often only have like 1 damage item for a long period of time.
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Not too impressed by Diana. She's actually exactly what I'd like for a champion who just came out. Abuses people who aren't used to her play style (aka haven't played her) but when I play ranked there's really not too many people who get spanked by her. When someone just never stops picking her and gets really good I'm sure she'll find her niche. Not too many melee APs in the current meta.
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Lich bane is quite good on Diana
Also I like your username, my sc2 user happens to be Terranosaur
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On August 10 2012 07:18 wei2coolman wrote:
I don't understand the obsession on FH on diana. I know the resistance + cdr is extremely nice, but i'm pretty sure there are better options out there for her.
Just some thoughts on other item combo's that could work for her to get the CDR she needs.
reverie+dfg
reverie+unholy grail
unholy grail+dfg
nashor's tooth+randuins (also, her E would have amazing synergy with randuins active).
zeke's herald+etc.
As far as jungle is concerned, even farm heavy junglers still build mostly supporty aura items, It's pretty unreasonable for a jungle diana to get a DC in jungle, or anything that expensive (including abyssal), especially without any smaller item buildups. Most junglers have a linear powercurve, often slowly building up their power over small chunks of gold, around 500-700 gold at a time, that's also part of their success. waiting to long for big ticket item without the power from a mid-level item to build it to really hurts junglers. nocturne's, shyv's and mundo's, still build aotl, and often only have like 1 damage item for a long period of time.
FH in particular was because if you're getting resistances, there aren't a lot of good armor options. Early, you have Tabi and Aegis. Tabi are viable (though I prefer Merc's) and Aegis I'm not too sold on. Later on, the big Armor items are Randuins, FH, Zhonya, and I guess Atma. Atma is out since you don't want AD or Crit and you're not stacking health. Zhonya is super expensive and the active isn't anything special on her compared to someone like Kennen/Morg/Karth/etc.
Randuin's is good, but FH gives her mana and CDR as well. Between the two FH would be my choice. If you don't need any armor or are going full glass cannon, who cares about any of them. But if you want resistances (as seems to be the consensus), FH is her best option in my opinion.
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Wow people capping cdr now? I thought "blue buff would always be available and cdr items were a waste".
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United States47024 Posts
On August 10 2012 07:52 obesechicken13 wrote:
Wow people capping cdr now? I thought "blue buff would always be available and cdr items were a waste".
That only ever applied to AP mids in the first place. Additionally, blue buff's CDR getting nerfed and new CDR itemization options like the new DFG and Athene's give you more wiggle room to work with, but it's still pretty common to not itemize any CDR on AP mids.
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On August 10 2012 07:18 101toss wrote:
Lich bane is quite good on Diana
Also I like your username, my sc2 user happens to be Terranosaur
Haha. I've been using Terranasaur since ICCUP, along with my two main smurfs, ProtossUrSalad and DandyKorhal. I have always played Zerg though, so it kinda throws people off a little on ladder. That and my 700 APM.
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On August 10 2012 07:18 wei2coolman wrote:
I don't understand the obsession on FH on diana. I know the resistance + cdr is extremely nice, but i'm pretty sure there are better options out there for her.
Just some thoughts on other item combo's that could work for her to get the CDR she needs.
reverie+dfg
reverie+unholy grail
unholy grail+dfg
nashor's tooth+randuins (also, her E would have amazing synergy with randuins active).
zeke's herald+etc.
As far as jungle is concerned, even farm heavy junglers still build mostly supporty aura items, It's pretty unreasonable for a jungle diana to get a DC in jungle, or anything that expensive (including abyssal), especially without any smaller item buildups. Most junglers have a linear powercurve, often slowly building up their power over small chunks of gold, around 500-700 gold at a time, that's also part of their success. waiting to long for big ticket item without the power from a mid-level item to build it to really hurts junglers. nocturne's, shyv's and mundo's, still build aotl, and often only have like 1 damage item for a long period of time.
FH is popular because of Glacial Shroud. Glacial is cheap, easy to build, and effective. Almost everything else you listed has notable issues if you're jungling.- Reverie: Philo doesn't have enough mana regen to sustain Diana, and she's much stronger with early resistances than health. The active is nice, but you could have Chalice + Glacial for only 215g more.
- DFG: 2600g is a lot to invest before you get any CDR if you're jungling. All you have is a chunk of AP until it's finished. In addition, the active is significantly less useful if you aren't going to be investing in lots of AP.
- Randuin's: It's a great item, but CDR isn't the reason you buy this item. I'd happily grab Warden's Mail in addition to, rather than in spite of, Glacial depending on the situation.
- Zeke's Herald: This runs into the same problem as Reverie, health isn't as useful as resistances. The Life Steal is also completely worthless for Diana.
- Nashor's Tooth: The problem with Nashor's Tooth is entirely that Athene's is stupidly better if you're going to build anything out of Codex. This is especially true if you use Chalice on Diana.
So FH/Glacial stands out for junglers on a budget looking for tankiness.
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For you platinum players:
What differentiates a 1700 player from a 1900 one? 200 elo doesn't seem like much, but I feel like i'm miles behind my platinum friends. I can't consistently hard carry games anymore. People are too conservative to die in lane, and junglers are more responsive than they used to be. A lot of my games feel "even" until team fights and then one team pulls ahead and I just feel like a non-factor. What can I change in my play that will elevate me to the next level?
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On August 10 2012 08:42 Perplex wrote:
For you platinum players:
What differentiates a 1700 player from a 1900 one? 200 elo doesn't seem like much, but I feel like i'm miles behind my platinum friends. I can't consistently hard carry games anymore. People are too conservative to die in lane, and junglers are more responsive than they used to be. A lot of my games feel "even" until team fights and then one team pulls ahead and I just feel like a non-factor. What can I change in my play that will elevate me to the next level?
Pick agressive lanes that kill people pre-6.
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After playing the matchup I think swain is pretty much a hard counter to diana mid(although he beats pretty much any melee).
After the hilariously OP Zyra, I'm glad riot released a champ I'd consider balanced though. She's got roughly equivalent burst to akali, and like akali, getting caught alone without being tanky or near a turret pretty much means summoners or death, as it should be.
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On August 10 2012 08:42 Perplex wrote:
For you platinum players:
What differentiates a 1700 player from a 1900 one? 200 elo doesn't seem like much, but I feel like i'm miles behind my platinum friends. I can't consistently hard carry games anymore. People are too conservative to die in lane, and junglers are more responsive than they used to be. A lot of my games feel "even" until team fights and then one team pulls ahead and I just feel like a non-factor. What can I change in my play that will elevate me to the next level?
People in general just seems to understand positioning and when to fight etc. better, and plat players might also be SLIGHTLY better in the laning phase. Anyway, it's not a huge difference, but it matters.
I think the difference between 1500 and 1700 is way bigger than the difference between 1700 and 1900 anyway.
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EPT
