EPT[Patch 1.0.0.144: Diana] General Discussion - Page 116
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
On August 10 2012 10:31 Ryuu314 wrote: if you're going to go chalice->grail, you could probably skip philo from the jungle. she doesn't really need the sustain for jungling anyways because she clears so fast that her shield is more than sufficient to keep her hp up. any incidental damage you take from ganks can be covered via natural regen and pots. I've been jungling diana whenever possible and so far I'm doing pretty good. I just go boots+3 -> kage -> chalice. From there I finish Grail, Frozen Heart, Abyssal. I tried Wit's for a few games where I needed the MR, but my AP mid/top already built an Abyssal so I grabbed Wit's since it helps you proc your passive more as well. Never got past that, but I'd probably try building a Dcap afterwards. Honestly, she doesn't do that bad from the jungle. Your ganks are pretty bad before 6, but they're still possible if the enemy's even a little overextended due to your naturally high movespeed. After 6 ganking's pretty easy. Also, Diana clears so damn fast she can hit 6 pretty early, especially if you jack your opponent's camps after clearing your own. Her 1v1 potential's pretty good too. If you're jungling you're not looking for the massive assassin-y burst mid Diana will give you; you play more of a sustained dps/disruption role that can dive decently well. Is Abyssal after grail and FH worth it? | ||
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samthesaluki
914 Posts
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Eiii
United States2566 Posts
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Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
On August 10 2012 11:04 Chiharu Harukaze wrote: Ohey they finally announced. Been sitting on this for a while haha. That's just mean, you could've teased everyone with hints about something coming up and let us all go crazy for awhile; that'd be more fun. | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31495 Posts
On August 10 2012 11:04 Chiharu Harukaze wrote: Ohey they finally announced. Been sitting on this for a while haha. What are your opinions on it, MB? This kinda seems unnecessary. She had her role and was fun to play given the right conditions. Now they've made her a little more generic and, dare I say (pending her numbers) OP, ESPECIALLY since she has no resource contgrol to worry about. This will turn her into a crazy burst champion with the extra damage ability and even harder to kill than before with the extra mobility from the new W.... DISCLAIMER: Obviously this is just a kneejerk reaction to the preview and we'll wait and see. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
Why not? The way I play her I like to get right into the middle of the fight and output sustained damage via low cd Q and your passive while disrupting the enemy with E. To accomplish this I need to be somewhat tanky while getting some source of damage so I'm not ignorable. Abyssal does that perfectly. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On August 10 2012 11:12 Eiii wrote: Is it just me or did they just turn kat into akali? kat and akali were already pretty similar in terms of role/mechanics anyways. they both were low resource, semi-squishy assassins with refresh on kill mechanics that were rather central to their play. | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
That said, I love Kat and as long as she isn't op I'm fine with this. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
Grail+merc treads+ abyssal+aotl is probably overkill on the MR. If you're building tanky, the only magic damage you should be taking is non-targeted magic damage, mostly from aoe affects that you can't really dodge, because AP carries main target isn't going to be tanky bruiser~ Not to mention you're gunna be pretty hp heavy as well, with aotl+randuins+reverie. FH probably not worth it if you go randuins. As far as kat changes are concerned, I don't really like it. I much preferred the niche role she played. The biggest thing about this change is that she can now do consistent damage without her ulti, She's not so ult-centric, obviously her ulti ratios will have to go down if they're giving her additional damaging ability, as to prevent her full burst from being too out of control. She'll still have a really tough time in lane, depending on how strong her W is, I still see her being VERY VERY weak against pushing AP's, like morgana/karthus/cass, etc etc. Shunpo with the W sounds strong, but remember, it'll put her in a extremely vulnerable position~, so ganks after such an aggressive play is something kat players are going to have to worry about. With W, kat might be jungle viable, just another thought for players. | ||
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Perplex
United States1693 Posts
On August 10 2012 11:18 HazMat wrote: I'm so sick of these PUT A MARK ON AN ENEMY, HIT THEM TO CONSUME THE MARK FOR MORE DMG. So boring. That said, I love Kat and as long as she isn't op I'm fine with this. ^This. I don't think consuming marks is necessarily bad design, but it just feels repetitive. I really hope she isn't OP, I don't want her going FoTM. I liked having her be my niche pick for fun on my smurf | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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WilDMousE
Chile1335 Posts
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
On August 10 2012 11:14 WirelessWaffle wrote: That's just mean, you could've teased everyone with hints about something coming up and let us all go crazy for awhile; that'd be more fun. I've said they were thinking about Kat a looong time ago haha. Like, here. But that was before I got a chance to see some of the stuff being worked on. Since then, I've had to keep my mouth shut. There's so many things I want to talk about but I'm not allowed to. Sorry. On August 10 2012 11:15 WaveofShadow wrote: What are your opinions on it, MB? Hrm. I've never played her myself but I have 1v1'd with her in mid lane. Her burst has changed focus quite a lot so it's not like old Kat. Her Q is definitely more annoying and you have to watch positioning more. Luckily she can't debuff heal you before 6 so you don't have to worry too much about random HPots being stopped. Her pre-6 matches are way better though. Like, much much better. Better wave clear too. Can see her doing similar things like Sion does. And of course, new DFG is really good on her. | ||
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Mondeezy
United States1938 Posts
Some games I go Boots3->kages->sheen->abysal->dcap->rylais->dfg->lb. Other games I go philo->hog->wits->randuins->shurels->dcap. I feel like she'd be much simpler to build as a mid. Haven't experimented with grail yet. For now I'm going to just focus on lanes I normally play, and when I happen to mid or jungle I'll mess around with builds on her. And wtf kat remake? lame, she was fine. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On August 10 2012 11:19 wei2coolman wrote: Grail+merc treads+ abyssal+aotl is probably overkill on the MR. If you're building tanky, the only magic damage you should be taking is non-targeted magic damage, mostly from aoe affects that you can't really dodge, because AP carries main target isn't going to be tanky bruiser~ Not to mention you're gunna be pretty hp heavy as well, with aotl+randuins+reverie. FH probably not worth it if you go randuins. Thing is, I'm not going Aegis lol. It's super cost effective and all that but I'd rather let my top/support get it instead. Grail by itself only gives 40 MR. Mercs give 25 and Abyssal gives 57. That's 122 MR on top of your base 30(+1.25) MR. 150~160 Mr isn't overkill; it's only around a 60% damage reduction. Besides, AD carries/supports sometimes have some form of incidental magic damage anyways. AP carries also do target bruisers; if they're not some 1-2 rotation burst mage like annie or an assassin like Kassadin, they will definitely target the bruiser in their face beating them up. I also dislike Randuins and Reverie. Philo feels unnecessary to me, especially if you're getting chalice/grail. Randuins is pretty nice, but I'd rather get my armor from Glacial since it provides better stats. It provides better cdr and also bolsters your mana pool as your initial burst can be costy. Frozen Heart also provides an attack speed slow that's quite strong. The movespeed slow from Randuins isn't really necessary since AD carries have a hard time kiting you anyways due to your E and ulti. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
how many crescent slashes do we need? | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On August 10 2012 11:35 Ryuu314 wrote: Thing is, I'm not going Aegis lol. It's super cost effective and all that but I'd rather let my top/support get it instead. Grail by itself only gives 40 MR. Mercs give 25 and Abyssal gives 57. That's 122 MR on top of your base 30(+1.25) MR. 150~160 Mr isn't overkill; it's only around a 60% damage reduction. Besides, AD carries/supports sometimes have some form of incidental magic damage anyways. AP carries also do target bruisers; if they're not some 1-2 rotation burst mage like annie or an assassin like Kassadin, they will definitely target the bruiser in their face beating them up. I also dislike Randuins and Reverie. Philo feels unnecessary to me, especially if you're getting chalice/grail. Randuins is pretty nice, but I'd rather get my armor from Glacial since it provides better stats. It provides better cdr and also bolsters your mana pool as your initial burst can be costy. Frozen Heart also provides an attack speed slow that's quite strong. The movespeed slow from Randuins isn't really necessary since AD carries have a hard time kiting you anyways due to your E and ulti. Well, I was mostly talking about my theoretical full build~ Have fun trying to pay for all of those items. Jungles rarely get to 6item, even with stupidly cost effecient items. I just don't see you being able to afford abyssal+unholygrail+FH. Also that amount of MR is overkill, most bruisers only build 2 MR items in the game most of the time, wits/hexdrinker+merc treads. the only time they have fon or banshee veil is if the enemy ap is beyond fed. Unholy grail + merc treads, going to be more than reasonable amount of MR for majority of the games you play. As far as unholy grail + FH, you should probably just choose one or the other. I think randuins is super strong in this. E + randuins active is a complete team wrecker, not to mention the active also lowers AS, that's why often diving bruisers often prefer randuins over FH. | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
Besides, her core kit seems to be unchanged. The differences are a buff to her Q and E. Moving the health debuff to R. And changing her W to a damage dealing skill, which I think is a buff since her W feels kinda awkward and unnecessary as it is now. | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On August 10 2012 11:46 Ryuu314 wrote: Not sure why people are upset she's getting reworked. No one can argue that she was in a perfect spot before. She's next to unplayed in the competitive scene and her weaknesses vastly outweigh her strengths. Sure, she stomps n00bs and has a place in extremely situational team comps, but I think it's a good thing Riot's trying to make her viable in more situations. Besides, her core kit seems to be unchanged. The differences are a buff to her Q and E. Moving the health debuff to R. And changing her W to a damage dealing skill, which I think is a buff since her W feels kinda awkward and unnecessary as it is now. she was perfectly fine as she was all that needed adjustment was damage on Q early game the new W will feel far more awkward cause it contributes nothing beneficial to her kit as it is | ||
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