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On August 09 2012 11:56 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 11:46 obesechicken13 wrote:Diana's pale cascade looks kind similar in numbers to sion's shield (Active): Diana creates three orbiting spheres that last up to 4 seconds and detonate on contact, dealing magic damage to all nearby enemies. She also gains a temporary shield that absorbs damage. This shield is refreshed if all three spheres detonate.
Cooldown: 10 seconds
AoE radius of sphere damage: 200 (estimate)
Cost: 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 mana
Shield Strength: 55 / 80 / 105 / 130 / 155 (+0.4 per ability power)
Magic Damage per Orb: 20 / 36 / 52 / 68 / 84 (+0.2 per ability power)
Maximum Magic Damage: 60 / 108 / 156 / 204 / 252 (+0.6 per ability power)
(Active): Sion surrounds himself with a shield which absorbs damage for up to 10 seconds. After 4 seconds, if the shield has not been destroyed, the ability can be cast again to explode and deal magic damage to surrounding enemies. It will explode automatically after the 10 seconds have passed.
Cooldown: 8 seconds after shield expires
Explosion area: 550
Cost: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 mana
Shield Strength/Magic Damage: 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 / 300 (+0.9 per ability power)
If the shield goes down but all 3 orbs hits, then diana basically gets as much shield as sion does. I mean sion has his stun shield combo which diana can't mimic till level 6 but that alone. Shouldn't that make her a lane bully? At least against melees and people who can't push? Also her passive seems to do more damage than jax's ult passive in an AoE. You really can't compare the two. Sion's shield has a pretty big aoe and only does damage if it's not popped. The ratio is 0.9 with a high base damage/shield strength. Diana's shield is considerably lower base values and the aoe of your orbs isn't nearly as large as Sion's shield explosion. The damage ratio is also only 0.6 compared to 0.9; that's a 50% difference. Add on to the fact that it's unlikely you'll have the initial shield completely depleted before all 3 orbs detonate and refresh the shield, you're realistically only looking at a 0.6~0.7 AP ratio shield rather than the full 0.8. Detonating the orbs causes Diana's shield to refresh the whole thing, it doesn't stack the shields.
But they both have shields and do AoE damage, and by the looks of it, the numbers are enough to instaclear waves. Doesn't that also make Diana a lane bully? I don't know as I haven't played Diana.
I'm not saying the two skills are exactly the same, just that they have similar functions: to absorb damage and to deal large AoE damage. I don't really know if the radius is large enough or if she can safely draw the minons around her/has enough mana to draw them with her E then use her W.
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that totally answers my question, plz teach me moar of ur high level thinking
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On August 09 2012 12:05 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 11:56 Ryuu314 wrote:On August 09 2012 11:46 obesechicken13 wrote:Diana's pale cascade looks kind similar in numbers to sion's shield (Active): Diana creates three orbiting spheres that last up to 4 seconds and detonate on contact, dealing magic damage to all nearby enemies. She also gains a temporary shield that absorbs damage. This shield is refreshed if all three spheres detonate.
Cooldown: 10 seconds
AoE radius of sphere damage: 200 (estimate)
Cost: 60 / 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 mana
Shield Strength: 55 / 80 / 105 / 130 / 155 (+0.4 per ability power)
Magic Damage per Orb: 20 / 36 / 52 / 68 / 84 (+0.2 per ability power)
Maximum Magic Damage: 60 / 108 / 156 / 204 / 252 (+0.6 per ability power)
(Active): Sion surrounds himself with a shield which absorbs damage for up to 10 seconds. After 4 seconds, if the shield has not been destroyed, the ability can be cast again to explode and deal magic damage to surrounding enemies. It will explode automatically after the 10 seconds have passed.
Cooldown: 8 seconds after shield expires
Explosion area: 550
Cost: 70 / 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 mana
Shield Strength/Magic Damage: 100 / 150 / 200 / 250 / 300 (+0.9 per ability power)
If the shield goes down but all 3 orbs hits, then diana basically gets as much shield as sion does. I mean sion has his stun shield combo which diana can't mimic till level 6 but that alone. Shouldn't that make her a lane bully? At least against melees and people who can't push? Also her passive seems to do more damage than jax's ult passive in an AoE. You really can't compare the two. Sion's shield has a pretty big aoe and only does damage if it's not popped. The ratio is 0.9 with a high base damage/shield strength. Diana's shield is considerably lower base values and the aoe of your orbs isn't nearly as large as Sion's shield explosion. The damage ratio is also only 0.6 compared to 0.9; that's a 50% difference. Add on to the fact that it's unlikely you'll have the initial shield completely depleted before all 3 orbs detonate and refresh the shield, you're realistically only looking at a 0.6~0.7 AP ratio shield rather than the full 0.8. Detonating the orbs causes Diana's shield to refresh the whole thing, it doesn't stack the shields. But they both have shields and do AoE damage, and by the looks of it, the numbers are enough to instaclear waves. Doesn't that also make Diana a lane bully? I don't know as I haven't played Diana.
Diana's shield isn't enough to insta-clear waves by itself until you get a lot of levels and AP into it. You're also probably going to be maxing Q over W in lane since the decreased cooldown on Q is really important as it'll let you have insta-refresh ultis more often. Sion's shield also will insta-clear a wave pretty much no matter what. Diana's shield is such small aoe that you'll only insta-clear a wave with just the shield if you have the creeps more or less bunched up around you.
She can be a lane bully in the sense that Q is a lot of damage and is pretty good harass. It's a skillshot that's deceptively hard to hit/easy to dodge though.
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Diana is so much fun. I love zooping over walls to kill things with my ult after Qing them. Also get her max CDR and she's retardedly broken: ult on 7.5ish second CD and Q on 3.6ish second CD. Excuse me while I jump from enemy team member to enemy team member until I run out of mana or they all die.
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On August 09 2012 12:06 zulu_nation8 wrote:
that totally answers my question, plz teach me moar of ur high level thinking
I could teach you, but I'd have to charge.
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I need to work on landing her Q, it's pretty difficult to hit consistently.
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How do you dodge Diana's Q if you have a slow champion like Ashe? or am I just bad?
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On August 09 2012 12:14 Requizen wrote:
I need to work on landing her Q, it's pretty difficult to hit consistently.
Agreed. It's rather tricky but at least it's not as bad as the Xerath Q...dodged it. Poor Xerath. But the CD is short enough that you get multiple chances in a teamfight to land the Q and Ult as Diana.
On August 09 2012 12:15 olabaz wrote:
How do you dodge Diana's Q if you have a slow champion like Ashe? or am I just bad?
Because it's a curve you are best off stepping toward Diana. Dianas will tend to assume you will take a step back and have it set up so stepping back will still cause a hit. Least that's what I've seen and done so far. Alternatively you can try walking sideways away from Diana on a slight diagonal.
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On August 09 2012 12:15 olabaz wrote:
How do you dodge Diana's Q if you have a slow champion like Ashe? or am I just bad?
u jus bad. lol just kidding x]
it's actually not that hard to dodge it. Diana's Q will always travel from the same curved path and there's a somewhat significant cast and travel time. In lane/poke wars I'd stand to the side on her left. You can also dodge it by anticipating the curve and standing near where the projectile curves. It's hard to explain via words :[ During full blown teamfights it's trickier to dodge and you're better off just staying far back and hoping your team can peel well.
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is awesome32282 Posts
On August 09 2012 12:06 zulu_nation8 wrote:
that totally answers my question, plz teach me moar of ur high level thinking
Stop that, we don't want people posting like idiots here.
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United States15536 Posts
On August 09 2012 12:14 Requizen wrote:
I need to work on landing her Q, it's pretty difficult to hit consistently.
Me too... it's a bit rough, especially because that circle at the end of the targeting element suggests it hits everything in the area thereof, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't. Maybe I'm just NARROWLY missing, but that's how it seems. That being said, I think it has some of the coolest applications because of its speed and shape; no one else has an attack exactly like it, so dodging it requires more thought than the regular "get out of way of line." Then again, this could definitely be because no one knows how to play against her yet.
Edit: I also do that thing where I try to aim it right in front of me and miss retreating people. =( Dumb.
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I have mostly been aiming it like it was a galio Q (smartcasting it) and wildly guessing the path it takes to get there (well, I have a reasonable feel for it now) and with moderate success. It's worth noting that it always curves counterclockwise, by about 250 units to the side.
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use the curve near the end of its trajectory to get a wider radius on what you want to hit, by aiming a bit to the left you have a chance to either go through or land on them.
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United States15536 Posts
Hehehe... Shake on Salce's stream. GLGL
Edit: Good lord, dat Varus.
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HUE FROZEN MALLET HUE LOL
User was warned for this post
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On August 09 2012 11:51 bmn wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 11:27 Cloud9157 wrote:
What do people think about Volibear?
Been really looking for a new top, and thinking about getting him. He seems pretty strong, and his passive can easily swing a fight in his favor, or at least until they ignite you.
I thought the same thing, but I was really disappointed after trying him top. I might just be particularly bad at laning him, but even after just three or so games top it seemed like his bad matchups are really bad, and he has a fair number of them. Anything with a ranged poke and mobility (to avoid your Q) will make you suffer. Volibear vs Teemo was painful enough to make me stick to jungle.
On the contrary I find Volibear top to be very strong. He crushes almost any bruiser pretty hard, and does well against most other top lane champions as well. I don't think he has many bad match-ups in top lane at all honestly (not including AD carries or some mid lane champs that do well against him but you're not likely to find top lane). Off the top of my head Teemo, Kayle and Rumble can be difficult. Even still, they have to play very cautiously because one mistake from them, or a gank by your jungler and they will be dead or on 40% health at best. Nonetheless if it's those match-ups that you find too troubling, then just use Volibear as a counterpick to an enemy bruiser where his strengths are more obvious.
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United States47024 Posts
On August 09 2012 11:59 zulu_nation8 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 11:52 101toss wrote:On August 09 2012 11:48 zulu_nation8 wrote:On August 09 2012 11:25 De4ngus wrote:On August 09 2012 11:20 zulu_nation8 wrote:On August 09 2012 11:15 101toss wrote:On August 09 2012 11:10 zulu_nation8 wrote:
zionspartan says irelia is really strong and only loses to jax, kinda confirmed what i thought Irelia dies to nunu you can never die but you cant kill him either after certain levels, they have different roles but i think irelia is generally more useful. I don't think you can really run nunu top in a tourney game unless it's a specific strat since he doesnt scale and doesnt do damage which is bad if you're a solo taking farm. u underestimate nunu  he is not lane cheese where does your damage come from then if you run nunu top Early game the combination of iceball and yeti punches Mid game iceball and ult Late game bb ad carry, iceball and ult im talking about team damage
A team doesn't need 3 people's worth of damage if you pick accordingly and allocate farm appropriately (obviously don't give Nunu more and more farm midgame if he's not doing anything with it). A properly picked team can easily function with only AP and AD as primary damage sources, and even a single primary damage source from a 4-protects-1 hypercarry can work if you pick the team-comp for it properly. Nunu naturally sets up a lot of those team-comps with his kit.
There's no requirement that the top laner needs to be a mid-lategame damage source, and in a lot of cases they SHOULDN'T be.
Honestly speaking, top Nunu's damage potential shouldn't be that different from Malphite's (Malphite gets it naturally off armor, while Nunu gets it from his minor AP itemization). Both also provide powerful attack speed slows to disrupt the enemy's carry. It's just that Nunu has peeling power and steroids, while Malphite has a stronger initiation.
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On August 09 2012 11:40 cLutZ wrote:Didn't someone post about that Saint didn't even write that?
liquidcity or whatever the old support from the team. Who now is the manager just ask questions and put that into a basic template.
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On August 09 2012 14:11 Sickshakes wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 11:51 bmn wrote:On August 09 2012 11:27 Cloud9157 wrote:
What do people think about Volibear?
Been really looking for a new top, and thinking about getting him. He seems pretty strong, and his passive can easily swing a fight in his favor, or at least until they ignite you.
I thought the same thing, but I was really disappointed after trying him top. I might just be particularly bad at laning him, but even after just three or so games top it seemed like his bad matchups are really bad, and he has a fair number of them. Anything with a ranged poke and mobility (to avoid your Q) will make you suffer. Volibear vs Teemo was painful enough to make me stick to jungle. On the contrary I find Volibear top to be very strong. He crushes almost any bruiser pretty hard, and does well against most other top lane champions as well. I don't think he has many bad match-ups in top lane at all honestly (not including AD carries or some mid lane champs that do well against him but you're not likely to find top lane). Off the top of my head Teemo, Kayle and Rumble can be difficult. Even still, they have to play very cautiously because one mistake from them, or a gank by your jungler and they will be dead or on 40% health at best. Nonetheless if it's those match-ups that you find too troubling, then just use Volibear as a counterpick to an enemy bruiser where his strengths are more obvious.
He crushes almost any bruiser? How so?
His skills all look pretty weak to me compared to most steroids other common top bruisers have (Jax, Fiora, Xin, etc.). And how does a purely melee character without any instant gap closer do well against most other top champions? I'm happy to lane against your volibear to see how you do it, I'm genuinely curious.
I don't see how a mistake from Teemo could possibly give you a kill that easily, blind really hurts Volibear. If he's at 40% health, he can still kill you without letting you get in range, at least that's what it felt like to me. And people like Jayce will just zone you all day, as far as I can tell...
I'd really like to make Voli work, but I just don't see what he brings to the table that others don't that would allow him to compete. I realize that E has great creep control, but I haven't been able to exploit that enough. What am I doing wrong?
I also tried a few games in Dominion just to get an idea what his 1v1 strength feels like against similarly rich champs, and I was really not particularly impressed.
His ganks are pretty cool, and I've had fun in the jungle with him, though even there he seems to fall off really hard. Late-game team fights I almost never seem to survive if I don't run away immediately after landing one Q (which isn't exactly bringing much to a fight).
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Volibear also dies to nunu
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EPT
