EPT[Patch 1.0.0.143: MidJuly-Zyra] General Discussion - Page 85
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On July 27 2012 06:18 JokerSan wrote: What was the most OP item at any time in LoL's history? I would have to go with either the Innervating Locket or HoG as the most OP items ever. no love for old last whisper? 40% AS + 40% arpen and some AD for less than it costs now sunfires were stupidly strong cause they stacked so well together banshees current shurelyas | ||
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Schwopzi
Netherlands954 Posts
On July 27 2012 06:33 Slusher wrote: I've fallen in love with the -60 mr build, I have a hard time not doing it. Buffing Guise even slightly I think would be a mistake. Ye I've been doing it on more and more champs, straight up if I feel they can get away with it or with 1/2 dorans or chalice. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
On July 27 2012 06:42 Frolossus wrote: no love for old last whisper? 40% AS + 40% arpen and some AD for less than it costs now Aegis was the best item ever. Also Catalyst GA Spell vamp haunting guise were all very good Honestly, RoA and IE are amazing currently almost as good as former aegis. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21373 Posts
But then you also need to increase gold gain across the board cause the speed with which you gain items shouldnt really go down. | ||
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spinesheath
Germany8679 Posts
On July 27 2012 06:41 wei2coolman wrote: The reason the old meta of gp10 stacking of hog/philo was op'd, was because you got gold. not only were they cost effective, the built into lategame essentially, due to gp10. The same reason it was "op'd' back then, is similar to why gp10 meta started back up recently. What i'm sayign is just have a dead end midgame item. And here you are ignoring Revolver and Wriggle's. Again, the 3rd, 4th and 5th Revolver don't build into anything. They don't give gold/10. Yet people were stacking at least 4 of them until the vamp became unique, and then they still got one every single game until it got some extra nerfs. In the end it doesn't matter if an item becomes cost efficient through stats or gold/10. It's just different ways of building a gold advantage: passively or actively. The amount of cost efficiency you are suggesting has been shown to be bad for the game. Period. Increasing the price of lategame items is something I kinda support. It widens the window where earlygame items shine. However this must not be coupled with even greater efficiency on these lategame items. Nah, don't increase the average gold gain. That would just keep the window for midgame items small. In the end it wouldn't change anything. | ||
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Zenithal
United States142 Posts
I mean, I know it's probably fine right now, but honestly, this thread constantly has discussions about items every week or so. Plus, it gets boring seeing the same items every game pretty much no matter what. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 27 2012 06:57 spinesheath wrote: The amount of cost efficiency you are suggesting has been shown to be bad for the game. Period. I don't think you can say it's case closed just like that. But I do agree that to make such items reasonable in the context of LoL's design, you'd need a radical paradigm shift in item design across the board. You'd pretty much have to revamp every item in the game, spread out the cost of items up to ~5k gold or higher, and possibly even adjust starting gold/gold gain values. It would be a very different game, and it would take a LONG time for the dust to settle for us to know if it was better or worse. On July 27 2012 07:01 Zenithal wrote: What would you guys think if Riot didn't release a champion for like, a month and a half, but instead did a major update to all items? I mean, I know it's probably fine right now, but honestly, this thread constantly has discussions about items every week or so. Plus, it gets boring seeing the same items every game pretty much no matter what. It would have to be after end of season 2. Any overhaul that has such potentially radical repercussions for competitive play needs to be put off until the end of the competitive season. | ||
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arb
Noobville17920 Posts
On July 27 2012 06:20 Parnage wrote: Zhonyas ring perhaps? I mean an item you had to split into two items seems pretty strong to me. Also philo stone because stacked philo stones was amazingly funny for anyone who liked to run around and not be caught by the enemy due to all the regen going on. dodge boots | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
There were like 2 heroes in the game that bought dodge boots. What are you talking about? I'd say HoG when it gave armor and hp and stacked. Zhonyas ring was insane too. Lots of items were. | ||
Juddas
768 Posts
And as for the Drings in her build, how are her ganks? On all my ganking mids, Fizz, LeBlanc, Annie, Kass, etc., I go Sorcs and Drings, but for the teamfighters and farmer, Karthus, Veigar, I skip the Drings and go into my big items ASAP and only leave lane to B and help with dragons or whatnot. So basically, what I am asking is, is she a ganky mid, or is she a AOE burst rape teamfighty mid? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On July 27 2012 07:18 Juddas wrote: Has anyone tried maxing W on Zyra? I feel like that would be very good because having capped CDR (with masteries and blue) at level 9 helps all your spells, and they have some great utility. I have been dabbling with E Q W W E R then R>W>E>Q And as for the Drings in her build, how are her ganks? On all my ganking mids, Fizz, LeBlanc, Annie, Kass, etc., I go Sorcs and Drings, but for the teamfighters and farmer, Karthus, Veigar, I skip the Drings and go into my big items ASAP and only leave lane to B and help with dragons or whatnot. So basically, what I am asking is, is she a ganky mid, or is she a AOE burst rape teamfighty mid? She's everything. The range on her E is stupid - I forsee it being reduced. As for maxing W, *shrug* I don't think it's that good. Sure you can spam spells, but that early you'll go oom fast-ish and not do that much damage for it imo. | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
A similar analogy is how attack speed is a bad stat the longer the game goes because of how champs get attack speed naturally from levels, and abilities. But early on dagger has the best %increase in dps ratio of itself, pickaxe, and brawlers (not sure about brutalizer). Even though attack speed gets worse the more you have, it's still a good stat to get. | ||
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GreenManalishi
Canada834 Posts
On July 27 2012 06:42 Schwopzi wrote: Ye I've been doing it on more and more champs, straight up if I feel they can get away with it or with 1/2 dorans or chalice. I remember back when AD always went mid I would go Ghostblade + Brutalizer on Ez. Start with a rune page of arPen marks and quint, but back then everyone used full rune pages of arPen. Hmm, I think I might try that old build out again. It's funny that since Ghostblade's active doesn't refresh on ranged attacks people just assume it is bad on ranged heroes. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Also rylai working on her plants is so freaking damn dumb. | ||
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Juddas
768 Posts
On July 27 2012 07:33 Alaric wrote: What about the plants? By level 9 they do 80 + 0.2 AP damage per attack, sure it's physical damage but since your opponent will most likely not have much more armor than MR at that level (esp. with MR runes) that's still 140 + 0.35 AP damage per hit if both plants attack the same champ, so you would most likely easily make up for the lack of burst if you can fuck up your opponent like that. Also rylai working on her plants is so freaking damn dumb. It's magical damage, at least that's what the wiki says. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Zyra | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On July 27 2012 07:29 GreenManalishi wrote: I remember back when AD always went mid I would go Ghostblade + Brutalizer on Ez. Start with a rune page of arPen marks and quint, but back then everyone used full rune pages of arPen. Hmm, I think I might try that old build out again. It's funny that since Ghostblade's active doesn't refresh on ranged attacks people just assume it is bad on ranged heroes. I remember running numbers on different AD builds back when stark's fervor was still in the game. There's also malady as part of the shredder build though it relies more on AS. SotD was removed from the game. The shredder build really wasn't that special though in theory. I think that for most armor ranges IE PD was straight up better. And you didn't really want to be focusing prenerf thornmail rammus anyways. Before I got to try the AD shredder build, riot introduced zekes herald and dickhead's unholy grail. The problem with AD shred is that you have to choose between multiplicative scaling off crit, or more AD, or more armor pen. There aren't enough slots. So items like black cleaver often don't get built. I still think arpen is a better red rune to get than AD. I find arpen much harder to itemize and there are always retards who don't run armor runes. They follow the builds online that advocate "ability power yellows, blues, reds, and purples" that phreak and colbycheeze put up. (The mentality here is go big or go home. You want to have 20 bad games to have one good game where matchmaker gives you an easy lane opponent, you snowball off them easier with your extra AP, and carry a game). I think AD's should either go back to arpen reds for the early game or crit strike chance/crit damage runes for the mid->late game. They shouldn't rely so much on their bad mechanics to have an easier time last hitting under tower before they get their first doran's. I've always wanted to look at a collection of my replays, perhaps selecting some close games, and analyzing how much MR and how much armor my enemy team had at any given point. I think I'd find fairly low values for both, with one person on the enemy team having 400 armor and 60 mr. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On July 27 2012 06:18 JokerSan wrote: What was the most OP item at any time in LoL's history? I would have to go with either the Innervating Locket or HoG as the most OP items ever. 27 Armor, 250 HP HoG, for sure. That shit was just.... lol, wtf were they thinking. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On July 27 2012 06:18 JokerSan wrote: What was the most OP item at any time in LoL's history? I would have to go with either the Innervating Locket or HoG as the most OP items ever. Nothing is close to locket or hog since I started playing... old zhonya's was significantly worse than the broken first version of deathcap so it's disqualified automatically. Yeah you bought it automatically an APs but there wasn't anything else TO buy, the fact that it was the only good AP item was why AP carries sucked so badly late game until the split. | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
On July 27 2012 07:49 obesechicken13 wrote: I remember running numbers on different AD builds back when stark's fervor was still in the game. There's also malady as part of the shredder build though it relies more on AS. SotD was removed from the game. The shredder build really wasn't that special though in theory. I think that for most armor ranges IE PD was straight up better. And you didn't really want to be focusing prenerf thornmail rammus anyways. Before I got to try the AD shredder build, riot introduced zekes herald and dickhead's unholy grail. The problem with AD shred is that you have to choose between multiplicative scaling off crit, or more AD, or more armor pen. There aren't enough slots. So items like black cleaver often don't get built. I still think arpen is a better red rune to get than AD. I find arpen much harder to itemize and there are always retards who don't run armor runes. They follow the builds online that advocate "ability power yellows, blues, reds, and purples" that phreak and colbycheeze put up. (The mentality here is go big or go home. You want to have 20 bad games to have one good game where matchmaker gives you an easy lane opponent, you snowball off them easier with your extra AP, and carry a game). I think AD's should either go back to arpen reds for the early game or crit strike chance/crit damage runes for the mid->late game. They shouldn't rely so much on their bad mechanics to have an easier time last hitting under tower before they get their first doran's. I've always wanted to look at a collection of my replays, perhaps selecting some close games, and analyzing how much MR and how much armor my enemy team had at any given point. I think I'd find fairly low values for both, with one person on the enemy team having 400 armor and 60 mr. it's different for ad because even early game your auto attacks are scaling mostly from items. for an AP, you scale a lot harder off of base damage, if you blow all of your money on ArP your ad suffers, I still get rank 5 of my main nuke by 9. | ||
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