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On July 27 2012 03:14 sylverfyre wrote:
So what I don't understand - why exactly is riot giving an AP mid 20% CDR passively? Are they THAT determined to make the itemization for CDR completely worthless? Why do this instead of having different base CD numbers?
If you compare Riot's old champion designs to recent ones, you'll notice that very few abilities are "pure". You no longer see abilities like Zilean's Rewind or Singed's Mega Adhesive. These days abilities always come stacked with damage or passives to make them more "interesting".
Darius E is a good example. The hook itself is strong, but because a lower CD hook isn't exciting they added the %APen to it.
So Zyra's W had to have another effect tacked on because it "needed" more than just seeds to be interesting. At a fundamental level I don't think it had to be this way, but I'm not in charge of champion designs at Riot.
As for the choice of CDR, I don't know why they chose that specifically. Using CDR instead of having different base CD numbers does accomplish two things: it maintains the cap on how low CDs can go, and it draws attention to itself ("Cool I get CDR!") in a way that baking things into the base stats doesn't.
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On July 27 2012 03:05 Perplex wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 02:33 nmbr wrote:spoilered the off topic shit: + Show Spoiler +On July 27 2012 01:31 iGrok wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 01:11 nmbr wrote:
I had a totally bizzare college experience. I was instructed, in class, to not put my degree on my resume because the school had such a bad reputation that it would actually harm my chances of getting hired. I had teachers take me aside and suggest that if I wanted a career that I should take my student loan money, invest it in starting my business, and drop out before wasting more time. LOL? Where the hell did you go? The Art Institute of Seattle. It's a franchise, pretty much the McDonald's of post-secondary education. Equal parts scam & joke. Their in-house loan system was extremely predatory. So should I pick up Zyra and abuse the OPness, or wait and see how bad she gets nerfed? I'm tempted to get in on the ground floor here. YOLO? lol Item question: What's the deal with Haunting Guise? After drings I can't justify spending gold/slots/time on anything that isn't big ticket, despite it having decent stats for the price. I get the impression that it's good on champs that peak in the early-mid game, but I dunno. Clue me in plz. In terms of gold value, guise is super efficient. It's just that you would need to get it early game most of the time, and few champs can afford to give up the mregen of drings I get it on vlad and rumble sometimes, thats about it.
It stays very efficient until lategame if you stack flat reduction (Sorcs and Abyssal are good items in any case) and the enemy team doesn't have naturally high MR. If you have additional flat reduction on your team it becomes even stronger.
It's definitely good on Amumu, Morg, Katarina, Annie. If your team has a Karthus it's always great, but a bit iffy to place in Karthus' inventory. I suppose Cassiopeia could make it work, but she's mostly targeting tanks so it's not that huge.
Well, I'm not that much into APs so I don't know about all the champs...
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Zyra, Malph, Ali, Graves, Lee. Holy fuck that is a gay as shit team.
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PS is it "Zai-rah" or "Zee-rah"?
I would go with Zai-rah
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On July 27 2012 03:40 AwayFromLife wrote:
Zyra, Malph, Ali, Graves, Lee. Holy fuck that is a gay as shit team.
Throw out Lee and add in mummy imo. That would be a nightmare to deal with.
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Zai-rah. as per phreak in the champion spotlight.
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Zyra seeds have to scale with levels somehow, hence the CDR. Although they could have scaled both turret strength depending on W level.
Why does Haunting Guise have to be early? If your plan is flat pen to shred their MR to zero whats wrong with adding Haunting Guise late to your abyssal/sorcs once they start adding MR?
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On July 27 2012 04:01 TheLink wrote:
Zyra seeds have to scale with levels somehow, hence the CDR. Although they could have scaled both turret strength depending on W level.
Why does Haunting Guise have to be early? If your plan is flat pen to shred their MR to zero whats wrong with adding Haunting Guise late to your abyssal/sorcs once they start adding MR?
Because they have almost no MR early, haunting is better, they have moar MR later at which point flat pen doesn't do as much.
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On July 27 2012 04:01 TheLink wrote:
Zyra seeds have to scale with levels somehow, hence the CDR. Although they could have scaled both turret strength depending on W level.
Why does Haunting Guise have to be early? If your plan is flat pen to shred their MR to zero whats wrong with adding Haunting Guise late to your abyssal/sorcs once they start adding MR?
It's a similar train of thought as brutalizer. The earlier you get it, the more you capitalize on the mpen. I would rather go sorcs/guise/abyssal than sorcs/abyssal/guise.
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On July 26 2012 21:36 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2012 17:55 obesechicken13 wrote:
Regarding the talk about college vs going pro if you're already pro. I think people these days look a lot for what school you came from and what it says before your name on a piece of paper they gave you. If you don't have that piece of paper you have a harder time finding the job statistically.
Very stupid. I disagree. People aren't looking for a piece of paper by your name, they are looking for the leadership and skillset that you earning that paper provided you with. If you can prove in a job interview that you have those skills you aren't necessarily at much of a disadvantage at all. Ofcourse going to school makes things easier, just the sheer fact that you invested a huge amount of your networth at the time to better yourself makes companies think you believe in yourself. But a degree these days is vastly over stated.
Ideally speaking, this would be great if it were true. Unfortunately, it's not. The piece of paper with the prestigious name is what you're really earning at the end of your four years and hundred grand. The world sucks.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 27 2012 04:01 TheLink wrote:
Why does Haunting Guise have to be early? If your plan is flat pen to shred their MR to zero whats wrong with adding Haunting Guise late to your abyssal/sorcs once they start adding MR?
Because rarely do the relevant enemy champs add their MR incrementally. Practically speaking it's not really that someone "starts" to get MR especially given how few champions have MR growth. MR typically comes in big chunks off of finished items, so it's more common that an enemy hero will go from having a little MR to a bunch the moment they buy Negatron/Wit's/Aegis/etc.
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On July 27 2012 04:16 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 04:01 TheLink wrote:
Zyra seeds have to scale with levels somehow, hence the CDR. Although they could have scaled both turret strength depending on W level.
Why does Haunting Guise have to be early? If your plan is flat pen to shred their MR to zero whats wrong with adding Haunting Guise late to your abyssal/sorcs once they start adding MR? It's a similar train of thought as brutalizer. The earlier you get it, the more you capitalize on the mpen. I would rather go sorcs/guise/abyssal than sorcs/abyssal/guise.
One key difference between the arpen on bruta vs the mpen on guise is that every champ gains armor/level, but not all champions gain magicres/level. So guise's effectiveness against squishier champions you want to focus doesn't diminish/level; only through items.
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Taric Xin such a strong botlane.
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You want to get Guise early because you can finish it faster than Abyssal for the same penetration and good efficiency.
It doesn't really become a bad item unless your enemies invest heavily into MR (usually only tanks get too much MR for Guise though). Well, as soon as you are maxed out you'd most likely sell it for a straight Deathcap though.
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But surely if you're getting both Abyssal and Guise then the order doesn't matter so much? why does Guise have to come first? Why can't you go like Abyssal -> Deathcap -> Guise? or Abyssal -> Guise -> w/e
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On July 27 2012 04:49 TheLink wrote:
But surely if you're getting both Abyssal and Guise then the order doesn't matter so much? why does Guise have to come first? Why can't you go like Abyssal -> Deathcap -> Guise? or Abyssal -> Guise -> w/e
Cause then you're basically skipping the power spike from the early Haunting Guise.
I kinda feel like Haunting Guise could be the Doran-stack replacement for nearly any manaless AP. Though the top lane manaless APs tend to have to deal with their lane opponent getting 1-2 early null magic mants which end up turning into core items for them - mpen is less attractive then, but it's still a damage boost that also gives you an ok amount of survivability/AP for its cost. It's "Cheaper" MPen than Sorc Shoes, too - at the cost of not being as slot efficient as a boot upgrade.
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On July 27 2012 04:49 TheLink wrote:
But surely if you're getting both Abyssal and Guise then the order doesn't matter so much? why does Guise have to come first? Why can't you go like Abyssal -> Deathcap -> Guise? or Abyssal -> Guise -> w/e
I don't understand whats so hard to understand about this. As time goes on ---> people have more MR.
Reducing MR from
60-->0 = huge effect
120-->60 = good effect
180-->120 = mediocre effect
100000-->999940 --> no effect
Therefore if you plan to stack flat pen you get it early or not at all. Same logic applies to why guise before abyssal.
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On July 27 2012 04:49 TheLink wrote:
But surely if you're getting both Abyssal and Guise then the order doesn't matter so much? why does Guise have to come first? Why can't you go like Abyssal -> Deathcap -> Guise? or Abyssal -> Guise -> w/e
spinesheath summed it up pretty well.
2650 gold vs 1458,
you get the mpen 1192 gold earlier
edit: gold values are abyssal vs guise
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There should be a cheap (~400-500 gold) item that just gives 10MPen or 10APen.
[edit] Combine them for a 1300g item that gives 15MPen and 15Apen. Now that would be fun to play with. Same cost as a revolver, for an aggressive item instead of a passive item.
[edit2] While I'm on the subject, lets just make a RoA for manaless champs lol. Combine the 1300g AMpen item with Giant's Belt and a combine cost of 790g (3200 total).
15MPen, 15APen, 500 HP.
Passive: Your champion gains 20 health, 2 APen, and 2 MPen every minute. Bonuses cap at +200 health, +20 APen, and +20 MPen.
Too broken? Or would this actually make akali viable in competetive play again?
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Or, like I've said for a while, reduce haunting guise cost by like 500 gold.
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EPT
