EPT[Patch 1.0.0.143: MidJuly-Zyra] General Discussion - Page 81
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
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LoCicero
1100 Posts
On July 27 2012 00:27 sylverfyre wrote: Honestly there are a lot of intangibles that have little to do with education you get from the school system. Despite not having finished my degree, I made the connections necessary to land my current (awesome) job via my college. College career placement departments are often amazing at getting you relevant connections to whatever career you're looking for, but not all students realize this and utilize them to full effect. Sylver is 100% right here. This is one thing I kind of regret about my time spent at college. I didn't take time to go to any of my professors' offices. I didn't realize that professors usually have TONS of connections in the field and I never really went to the career center. Most colleges and professors have great ways to get their students connections in whatever field they're looking for, the students just have to put in the time. I spent four years going to a top engineering university in the US and while I have a job I find interesting, I can almost guarantee I would be at a job that better fits my interests if I spent time networking at school. So, to those of you entering college/university: do not think of your professors as simply people there to teach you stuff. If you go to their office and show interest in their class and them as people they will more than likely be able to find you relevant internships and jobs. | ||
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Perplex
United States1693 Posts
On July 27 2012 01:05 LoCicero wrote: Sylver is 100% right here. This is one thing I kind of regret about my time spent at college. I didn't take time to go to any of my professors' offices. I didn't realize that professors usually have TONS of connections in the field and I never really went to the career center. Most colleges and professors have great ways to get their students connections in whatever field they're looking for, the students just have to put in the time. I spent four years going to a top engineering university in the US and while I have a job I find interesting, I can almost guarantee I would be at a job that better fits my interests if I spent time networking at school. So, to those of you entering college/university: do not think of your professors as simply people there to teach you stuff. If you go to their office and show interest in their class and them as people they will more than likely be able to find you relevant internships and jobs. As an incoming freshman, this is fantastic advice. Thank you. | ||
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nmbr
United States79 Posts
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koreasilver
9109 Posts
On July 27 2012 01:11 nmbr wrote: I had a totally bizzare college experience. I was instructed, in class, to not put my degree on my resume because the school had such a bad reputation that it would actually harm my chances of getting hired. I had teachers take me aside and suggest that if I wanted a career that I should take my student loan money, invest it in starting my business, and drop out before wasting more time. LOL? wat | ||
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iGrok
United States5142 Posts
On July 27 2012 01:11 nmbr wrote: I had a totally bizzare college experience. I was instructed, in class, to not put my degree on my resume because the school had such a bad reputation that it would actually harm my chances of getting hired. I had teachers take me aside and suggest that if I wanted a career that I should take my student loan money, invest it in starting my business, and drop out before wasting more time. LOL? Where the hell did you go? | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
PLUS she's got a pretty freaking' long range. PLUS her cooldowns are naturally very low. PLUS she's equipped with a lot of cc. And apparently contrary to Heimer's turrets her plants benefit from the rylai's slow too? This champ is just retarded. Edit: yeap, 1500 damage. In < 5 seconds. From plants alone. That Zyra was bad and despite Q seeming easy as fuck to hit (long range, large AoE, and the delay is shorter than Swain's or Brand's similar spells), but it hit her seeds. This is so retarded beyond any words... she has a pretty respectable burst and her sustained damage skyrockets with that retarded scaling + base damage on her plants (they actually hit harder that almost any bruiser aa damage late game). | ||
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Perplex
United States1693 Posts
On July 27 2012 01:11 nmbr wrote: I had a totally bizzare college experience. I was instructed, in class, to not put my degree on my resume because the school had such a bad reputation that it would actually harm my chances of getting hired. I had teachers take me aside and suggest that if I wanted a career that I should take my student loan money, invest it in starting my business, and drop out before wasting more time. LOL? something about the "LOL?" at the end just made me laugh so hard.. i'm sorry that's really unfortunate though. How'd everything turn out? | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
But really surprised at the damage I was getting out of her. Expected it to be a little less bursty than it was, the seeds/plants were almost just icing on the cake -- although it's some thick, delicious icing, as that Q plant has hella long range. I was often getting kills just blasting ppl with Q. And that ult, she's ridiculous in a teamfight. She should probably be top priority kill for the other team, so much AoE. Wrong thread? | ||
IntoTheWow
is awesome32281 Posts
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Mondeezy
United States1938 Posts
When playing a tanky bruiser/initiator, is it normal to take a ton of damage? I feel like if I initiate a fight, I end up dying in about 6-8 seconds and my team can't kill the other one fast enough. Is this a communication issue, my fault for a poor engagement, or my teams fault for not killing them fast enough? Normally I'll try to jump on the enemy carry or peel off mine, but sometimes I die too fast to even do that. Example - Yesterday I was playing Darius(yeah, Shake convinced me with his post and it was a fucking blast. 15-1-12 spam r np) and I went a tanky route with Frozen Mallet/Atmas/GA/BT/Wits. I pulled their AP carry and started chunking him, but I got spam CC'd to hell and died in about 4 seconds. Meanwhile, my team was behind me but couldn't pick off either of their carries, so they ended up dying pretty quickly. I pinged before I initiated -- should I have let someone else start the fight(note -- I was the tankiest on the team and we didn't have much initiation). Example 2 - Playing a game as Ree Singa. Land a Q on the AD Carry, ping him, jump in and kick him towards my team, get stunlocked and die in about 4 seconds to burst from the AP carry. They had a fed Irelia though, and even with the AD Carry dying our team still got melted due to lack of peels on her. Should I have focused her instead? I guess my TLDR question is -- I know how to initiate a fight. However, if they focus me I'm not sure if I should back out or continue putting pressure on their carries and rely on my team to do the rest. Thoughts? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On July 27 2012 00:27 sylverfyre wrote: Honestly there are a lot of intangibles that have little to do with education you get from the school system. Despite not having finished my degree, I made the connections necessary to land my current (awesome) job via my college. College career placement departments are often amazing at getting you relevant connections to whatever career you're looking for, but not all students realize this and utilize them to full effect. I'm so glad someone got to say this before I did. I have always worked hard in school - not necessarily for the grade, it's just how I was brought up. I attend school to learn, I love learning. My teachers all know me well because I give a high % of effort in classes and it shows. Because of this, when one of my business professors learned that LEGO was hiring interns for the summer, I was the first person she contacted. Networking is paramount to success in the professional world right now. My dad always told me "It's not only what you know, it's who you know," and god damn, he's right. Getting connections is as important as the education you gain. The "piece of paper" is losing significance (just had a discussion at lunch with a coworker about how I'm probably not getting my MBA for now), but you need to have marketable skills. College gives you an avenue to gain these connections and learn the skills you need in the professional world. You need to give an employer a reason that you would be a good hire. If you don't have that "piece of paper", you better have some damn good connections or desirable skills. @Alaric: yes, zyra op, shh don't tell anyone On July 27 2012 01:37 Leporello wrote: So, how about that Zyra, huh? Her mid-game is vicious. I wouldn't call her "high skill cap" either. She's pretty much all AoE, and lots of it, with lots of damage. The seeds are pretty easy to work with. So easy to zone-out your lane opponent. If things get messy later on, you can very easily just cast them right after you cast your Q and E, and they grow just the same without worry of being stepped on. But really surprised at the damage I was getting out of her. Expected it to be a little less bursty than it was, the seeds/plants were almost just icing on the cake -- although it's some thick, delicious icing, as that Q plant has hella long range. I was often getting kills just blasting ppl with Q. And that ult, she's ridiculous in a teamfight. She should probably be top priority kill for the other team, so much AoE. Wrong thread? I would definitely call Zyra high skill cap. Or, at the VERY least, high skill floor. There have been so many "wtf am i doing" moments with her. I'm usually able to pick up a mid champ and play it pretty competently, but not so much with Zyra. You just have to think differently than a lot of APs, and your positioning is really important in team fights. That said, once you figure out your positioning, you're super terror in team fights. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On July 27 2012 01:44 jcarlsoniv wrote: @Alaric: yes, zyra op, shh don't tell anyone I don't mind a champion being strong. I mind champions being bullshit to that degree. Once I got used to the tiny delay on her Q I dodged pretty much all her skills and still got shreded despite the way I was ahead every time, just because of the way her plants give her an assured 0.4 AP ratio + good base damage... per plant. The skill ceiling may be high thanks to stuff like ambushes and mindgames, but seeing how she can dish out such absurd amount of damage with little to no effort makes me cringe. Plus she's squishy but her ranges actually make her pretty damn safe in laning phase if she decides too. | ||
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Deleted User 101379
4849 Posts
On July 27 2012 01:40 Mondeezy wrote: Hey guys, When playing a tanky bruiser/initiator, is it normal to take a ton of damage? I feel like if I initiate a fight, I end up dying in about 6-8 seconds and my team can't kill the other one fast enough. Is this a communication issue, my fault for a poor engagement, or my teams fault for not killing them fast enough? Normally I'll try to jump on the enemy carry or peel off mine, but sometimes I die too fast to even do that. Example - Yesterday I was playing Darius(yeah, Shake convinced me with his post and it was a fucking blast. 15-1-12 spam r np) and I went a tanky route with Frozen Mallet/Atmas/GA/BT/Wits. I pulled their AP carry and started chunking him, but I got spam CC'd to hell and died in about 4 seconds. Meanwhile, my team was behind me but couldn't pick off either of their carries, so they ended up dying pretty quickly. I pinged before I initiated -- should I have let someone else start the fight(note -- I was the tankiest on the team and we didn't have much initiation). Example 2 - Playing a game as Ree Singa. Land a Q on the AD Carry, ping him, jump in and kick him towards my team, get stunlocked and die in about 4 seconds to burst from the AP carry. They had a fed Irelia though, and even with the AD Carry dying our team still got melted due to lack of peels on her. Should I have focused her instead? I guess my TLDR question is -- I know how to initiate a fight. However, if they focus me I'm not sure if I should back out or continue putting pressure on their carries and rely on my team to do the rest. Thoughts? Well, if you are the initiator you will always be the first target of the opponents, that is why usually the most tanky player (best with some form of protection steroid or AoE CC) initiates. Darius is neither really tanky nor does he have a CC suitable for initiation (more the opposite, if he grabs opponents they just say "thank you" and kill him), so he is not exactly the best choice for initiation unless he gets a good grab over a wall or such. As bruiser your job is less to dive and kill opponents, your job is to protect your carry by punching everything that gets close to him. However, even if you die, your death might benefit your team if the opponents used 2+ of their ultimates on you instead of on your carries. | ||
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jacosajh
2919 Posts
On July 27 2012 01:40 Mondeezy wrote: Hey guys, When playing a tanky bruiser/initiator, is it normal to take a ton of damage? I feel like if I initiate a fight, I end up dying in about 6-8 seconds and my team can't kill the other one fast enough. Is this a communication issue, my fault for a poor engagement, or my teams fault for not killing them fast enough? Normally I'll try to jump on the enemy carry or peel off mine, but sometimes I die too fast to even do that. Example - Yesterday I was playing Darius(yeah, Shake convinced me with his post and it was a fucking blast. 15-1-12 spam r np) and I went a tanky route with Frozen Mallet/Atmas/GA/BT/Wits. I pulled their AP carry and started chunking him, but I got spam CC'd to hell and died in about 4 seconds. Meanwhile, my team was behind me but couldn't pick off either of their carries, so they ended up dying pretty quickly. I pinged before I initiated -- should I have let someone else start the fight(note -- I was the tankiest on the team and we didn't have much initiation). Example 2 - Playing a game as Ree Singa. Land a Q on the AD Carry, ping him, jump in and kick him towards my team, get stunlocked and die in about 4 seconds to burst from the AP carry. They had a fed Irelia though, and even with the AD Carry dying our team still got melted due to lack of peels on her. Should I have focused her instead? I guess my TLDR question is -- I know how to initiate a fight. However, if they focus me I'm not sure if I should back out or continue putting pressure on their carries and rely on my team to do the rest. Thoughts? I think starting fights in this fashion is less effective (if you can even pull it off properly, much less having your more than likely unorganized team capitalizing on your success) than just using Lee Sin's kit during a teamfight. If you're tanky enough to be able to initiate a fight in this fashion, imagine if you just straight focused their AD fight in a straight 5v5 anyway. You can usually instantly kill even a Graves with a few hits and a Q E R Q ignite combo, and still get into the fight again by safeguarding your team. | ||
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bmn
886 Posts
On July 27 2012 01:50 Alaric wrote: I don't mind a champion being strong. I mind champions being bullshit to that degree. Once I got used to the tiny delay on her Q I dodged pretty much all her skills and still got shreded despite the way I was ahead every time, just because of the way her plants give her an assured 0.4 AP ratio + good base damage... per plant. The skill ceiling may be high thanks to stuff like ambushes and mindgames, but seeing how she can dish out such absurd amount of damage with little to no effort makes me cringe. Plus she's squishy but her ranges actually make her pretty damn safe in laning phase if she decides too. What I found most surprising is how easy it is to do well even if you misplace your plants and the enemy dives you past them. You'll miss out on a lot of damage without plants, but you /still/ have a respectable burst; tower diving you is risky for them because of e (under tower) + passive to finish them off; retreating without killing you is bad for them because the plants will hurt them on their way out. And it's so, so much easier to play than Heimerdinger because seed planting range is much longer than turret placing range. And Zyra's root is much easier to land in a button-mashing panic moment than Heimer's blind/stun. Since nobody mentioned it yet: What do you max first? I only tried maxing E first since plant damage doesn't scale with q/w. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On July 27 2012 02:01 bmn wrote: What I found most surprising is how easy it is to do well even if you misplace your plants and the enemy dives you past them. You'll miss out on a lot of damage without plants, but you /still/ have a respectable burst; tower diving you is risky for them because of e (under tower) + passive to finish them off; retreating without killing you is bad for them because the plants will hurt them on their way out. And it's so, so much easier to play than Heimerdinger because seed planting range is much longer than turret placing range. And Zyra's root is much easier to land in a button-mashing panic moment than Heimer's blind/stun. Since nobody mentioned it yet: What do you max first? I only tried maxing E first since plant damage doesn't scale with q/w. I'm maxing Q. E CD doesn't reduce with levels. I've found her to be squishy as all hell, so if they really want to dive me, I will likely die if I make a mistake. I've only been able to play a few games with her though, so I could be wrong. | ||
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h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
On July 27 2012 01:53 Morfildur wrote: Well, if you are the initiator you will always be the first target of the opponents, that is why usually the most tanky player (best with some form of protection steroid or AoE CC) initiates. Darius is neither really tanky nor does he have a CC suitable for initiation (more the opposite, if he grabs opponents they just say "thank you" and kill him), so he is not exactly the best choice for initiation unless he gets a good grab over a wall or such. As bruiser your job is less to dive and kill opponents, your job is to protect your carry by punching everything that gets close to him. However, even if you die, your death might benefit your team if the opponents used 2+ of their ultimates on you instead of on your carries. It's very dependent on the champion in question, teamcomps, item builds and the time of the game. Very late into the game, the importance of getting the ad carry is much higher. There is no universal answer to this really, and it heavily depends on the case. If you play Malphite for example, your goal should be to use your ult on as many players as you can while including the ad carry and then sit on him, not letting him attack. Lee Sin is very difficult in teamfights, kicking their ad carry into your team is usually a good move, so they can cc him more and focus him down. Sometimes teammates will not properly follow up and its very hard to distinguish wether it was a bad move to begin with or if someone else played it wrong. On July 27 2012 02:05 jcarlsoniv wrote: I'm maxing Q. E CD doesn't reduce with levels. I've found her to be squishy as all hell, so if they really want to dive me, I will likely die if I make a mistake. I've only been able to play a few games with her though, so I could be wrong. She has like Heimerdinger level base stats (read: awful) except without his silly health regen passive. | ||
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Dark_Chill
Canada3353 Posts
Her animation was so lackluster I honestly was not prepared for the attack, nor for the surprising burst damage it had. Then I was even more surprised when I later got hit by her Q, and found that that did a good amount of damage too. Zyra really strikes me as someone who has the plants as the icing on the cake, instead of her plants being the main part. Her teamfight is pretty good, with a nice snare and an ultimate that can wreck hard. Still, I don't think I find her overpowered. She doesn't have an escape and her spells can be avoided fairly easily. I think she's probably the better utility mage compared to say, Lux. Zyra offers close to the amount of utility Lux gives, but she brings a lot more damage imo. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On July 27 2012 02:12 Dark_Chill wrote: I was using Malz vs a Zyra yesterday, and she managed to kill me. I was mostly in shock because I thought I had a decent amount of health to survive at least another round of spells, and I had flash ready just in case. My hp pot was also regening my health. Then, she used her ult... for a second I was just like "what?" Her animation was so lackluster I honestly was not prepared for the attack, nor for the surprising burst damage it had. Then I was even more surprised when I later got hit by her Q, and found that that did a good amount of damage too. Zyra really strikes me as someone who has the plants as the icing on the cake, instead of her plants being the main part. Her teamfight is pretty good, with a nice snare and an ultimate that can wreck hard. Still, I don't think I find her overpowered. She doesn't have an escape and her spells can be avoided fairly easily. I think she's probably the better utility mage compared to say, Lux. Zyra offers close to the amount of utility Lux gives, but she brings a lot more damage imo. I think they need to make it more obvious that her ult is doing a huge amount of damage right away. Idk, it feels slightly awkward using it because the animation is very long leading up to the knock up, but the damage is all front loaded. | ||
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