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On July 27 2012 09:31 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 09:28 iCanada wrote:On July 27 2012 09:26 Sufficiency wrote:Her Innate seems retarded. Why does an Innate need to give bonus AS? So it isn't just Nocturne's without the heal? Haha. No that's not the point. Her innate also gives bonus AS. This is redundant, since the AS can be built into her statistics growth instead.
I know it can.
Other thing is that by doing it this way it doesn't scale as well as just making it a stat growth thing. Say I buy a Wits End, instead of he attack speed being Base*PassiveASboost*1.40 it is just Base*(1+0.4+passiveASboost). Less multiplicative, more controlled bonus.
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Her early jungle is probably going to be really good depending on how big the shield refresh is. AoE damage + a shield that refreshes once all the AoE damage has been dealt seems like it'd make you pretty close to immune against wolves/wraiths in a similar manner to nautilus after a point. Moonfall is probably going to be similar to darius's apprehend in a gank. Most likely IMO, she'll probably be closer to a nocturne style carry jungler than a support jungler
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On July 27 2012 06:11 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 06:08 TheYango wrote:On July 27 2012 05:22 wei2coolman wrote:
Or, like I've said for a while, reduce haunting guise cost by like 500 gold. You can't do this without bringing item balance as a whole into line with that figure. It doesn't help if there's one stand-out OP item and everything else doesn't line up with it. Would it be op'd? It still offers same stats, people just get it a lot earlier now~ when i bring up my thoughts on reducing guise's cost, I'm more or less just talking about creating a line of really really strong cost effective early items, that don't build into anything.
Kinda like dorans but you need a recipe for them
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On July 27 2012 09:39 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 09:31 Sufficiency wrote:On July 27 2012 09:28 iCanada wrote:On July 27 2012 09:26 Sufficiency wrote:Her Innate seems retarded. Why does an Innate need to give bonus AS? So it isn't just Nocturne's without the heal? Haha. No that's not the point. Her innate also gives bonus AS. This is redundant, since the AS can be built into her statistics growth instead. I know it can. Other thing is that by doing it this way it doesn't scale as well as just making it a stat growth thing. Say I buy a Wits End, instead of he attack speed being Base*PassiveASboost*1.40 it is just Base*(1+0.4+passiveASboost). Less multiplicative, more controlled bonus.
OK I guess you are right. But honestly I doubt more than 2% of the player base know this.
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On July 27 2012 09:39 iCanada wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 09:31 Sufficiency wrote:On July 27 2012 09:28 iCanada wrote:On July 27 2012 09:26 Sufficiency wrote:Her Innate seems retarded. Why does an Innate need to give bonus AS? So it isn't just Nocturne's without the heal? Haha. No that's not the point. Her innate also gives bonus AS. This is redundant, since the AS can be built into her statistics growth instead. I know it can. Other thing is that by doing it this way it doesn't scale as well as just making it a stat growth thing. Say I buy a Wits End, instead of he attack speed being Base*PassiveASboost*1.40 it is just Base*(1+0.4+passiveASboost). Less multiplicative, more controlled bonus.
Attack speed works off base attack speed, attack speed per level is a bonus, same as if it came from items. So it wouldn't matter if you rolled the passive into attack speed per level.
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On July 27 2012 09:37 thenexusp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 09:31 Sufficiency wrote:On July 27 2012 09:28 iCanada wrote:On July 27 2012 09:26 Sufficiency wrote:Her Innate seems retarded. Why does an Innate need to give bonus AS? So it isn't just Nocturne's without the heal? Haha. No that's not the point. Her innate also gives bonus AS. This is redundant, since the AS can be built into her statistics growth instead. They are probably worried that people wouldn't notice a champion having ridiculous base AS at level 18 unless they spelled it out for them.
Maybe the passive doesn't scale with levels. Or it scales on odd levels.
Also the as will be higher than the normal attack speed and champs have as their base so it's special.
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Off-topic, but:
Yes.
YES.
We agree we released Evelynn a bit on the weak side.
What we also believe though is that this new Evelynn still has a large learning curve and things may look worse at the moment to some players than they really are.
We're overall happy with how she is functioning, though she definitely needs some fine tuning. We're confident we can get her into a good place without something as drastic as say re-introducing a stun on the kit.
There are 2 primary buffs we plan on pushing next patch for Eve:
1) Reduce the time she needs to get back into her stealth
We built enough natural counter-play to her stealth that this just seems excessive in disallowing her to play the game she was meant to play.
2) Significantly reduce her ultimate's cooldown
We loaded a ton of her power into this spell, and Eve is very reliant on good use of this spell to succeed in all phases of the game.
Let's see how this affects things and move on from there.
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i think eve is pretty strong atm. its just that ppl dont know where to place her lane wise (and how much support she needs in mid if she does go there, which i think is a good place for her if she can pull it off)
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On July 27 2012 09:56 Navi wrote:
i think eve is pretty strong atm. its just that ppl dont know where to place her lane wise (and how much support she needs in mid if she does go there, which i think is a good place for her if she can pull it off)
I am pretty sure the new eve is WORSE than the old eve at the moment because she lost her CC from W and have it on a long-CD ult instead. She definitely needs a buff.
Also I think people are playing her incorrectly. Evelynn has good scaling and light on CC, so she has to have farm in order to be useful. This seems to me that she is a poor jungler. Unfortunately everyone is playing her as a jungler right now.
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On July 27 2012 09:58 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 09:56 Navi wrote:
i think eve is pretty strong atm. its just that ppl dont know where to place her lane wise (and how much support she needs in mid if she does go there, which i think is a good place for her if she can pull it off) I am pretty sure the new eve is WORSE than the old eve at the moment because she lost her CC from W and have it on a long-CD ult instead. She definitely needs a buff. Also I think people are playing her incorrectly. Evelynn has good scaling and light on CC, so she has to have farm in order to be useful. This seems to me that she is a poor jungler. Unfortunately everyone is playing her as a jungler right now.
Wouldn't she get manhandled in lane?
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Opinions on the new champ, Diana? Her ult looks like a really really fun mechanic.
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I think we should buff Eve by deleting her.
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Honestly with how long Eve has been UP I think that Riot should have over buffed her to the point where she'd be 100% OP after the rework. Then nerf her accordingly until she's in a good spot. I feel like Riot is going to add these two buffs, then maybe a minor buff down the road, and then fast forward three months and Eve is still considered awful.
For how long she was viewed as a worthless pick she needs to be made OP just so most players can get over the psychological effect of, "Eve is a worthless pick."
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On July 27 2012 10:01 WirelessWaffle wrote:Show nested quote +On July 27 2012 09:58 Sufficiency wrote:On July 27 2012 09:56 Navi wrote:
i think eve is pretty strong atm. its just that ppl dont know where to place her lane wise (and how much support she needs in mid if she does go there, which i think is a good place for her if she can pull it off) I am pretty sure the new eve is WORSE than the old eve at the moment because she lost her CC from W and have it on a long-CD ult instead. She definitely needs a buff. Also I think people are playing her incorrectly. Evelynn has good scaling and light on CC, so she has to have farm in order to be useful. This seems to me that she is a poor jungler. Unfortunately everyone is playing her as a jungler right now. Wouldn't she get manhandled in lane?
Disclaimer: I only played Eve in mid once.
I think her Q is now a reasonable ranged harass as well as a wave clear, but I wasn't able to get very good mileage of it because it was kind of awkward (the priorities are very complicated). Her mana regen bonus also gives her reasonable mana sustain, but the stealth CD is way too long right now. After level 6, you can go around to lane and all-in on your opponent, which is pretty good. However, the greatest strength is actually being able to get a lot more farm than jungling and be able to counterjungle/gank with ease.
I think she has potential in lane. Just don't expect to be able to win against Cassiopeia.
On July 27 2012 10:09 overt wrote:
Honestly with how long Eve has been UP I think that Riot should have over buffed her to the point where she'd be 100% OP after the rework. Then nerf her accordingly until she's in a good spot. I feel like Riot is going to add these two buffs, then maybe a minor buff down the road, and then fast forward three months and Eve is still considered awful.
For how long she was viewed as a worthless pick she needs to be made OP just so most players can get over the psychological effect of, "Eve is a worthless pick."
It's quite the opposite. From what I see, a lot of people mistakenly believe that the new Eve is OP and proceed to ban her in draft.
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On July 27 2012 10:09 overt wrote:
Honestly with how long Eve has been UP I think that Riot should have over buffed her to the point where she'd be 100% OP after the rework. Then nerf her accordingly until she's in a good spot. I feel like Riot is going to add these two buffs, then maybe a minor buff down the road, and then fast forward three months and Eve is still considered awful.
Good. Making champs overpowered because some people are stupid is asinine.
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People will think Eve is in a good spot sooner or later, the same with Kayle. It may take awhile but it'll happen and when she pop's up I think she'll pop in in a big way. No need to purposely make her stupidly strong just because of a stigma, that's just silly.
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Creepy goth girl :[ I wanted a babe :3
But that ability with the blue arc looks really cool
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On July 27 2012 10:11 Parnage wrote:
People will think Eve is in a good spot sooner or later, the same with Kayle. It may take awhile but it'll happen and when she pop's up I think she'll pop in in a big way. No need to purposely make her stupidly strong just because of a stigma, that's just silly.
I don't see how you can compare the two. Kayle's damage just from her regular harass is massive, very safe to apply from range, and very hard to counter due to double shred. She also has on-demand cc unlike Eve. And a speed boost. And sustain. And survivability in her ult.
Eve has her ult for survivability. And a speed boost. Her damage is spammable but mediocre and as someone said earlier, she pretty much requires an all in to kill someone and will always end up barely alive at the end of it.
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Also, even if eve is totally UP, she still will clown people in lower ELOs if she has any kind of scaling.
Infinite stealth is a stupid thing to implement in this game, and I don't think its possible to balance in any way for all ELOs at all times (hell even ~ 1500 people would get stomped if Eve was balanced for 2k+).
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On July 27 2012 09:26 Sufficiency wrote:Her Innate seems retarded. Why does an Innate need to give bonus AS? Also, I assume the moonlight debuff is consumed upon casting her ultimate (otherwise she can cast it almost indefinitely so long as the debuff lasts/her mana permits). It seems to me that her Q is a pass-through skillshot that debuffs everyone in its path, so hitting all 5 with Q -> 5 ultimate casts? This is kind of similar to Katarina in a way.
the skill description sounds like after you use your ultimate, all Q debuffs are consumed, including those not on your target.
tbh...I think Eve just needs some stat buffs. she's soooo squishy right now. her kit's fine. no cc until 6 isn't that big a deal.
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EPT
