On July 20 2012 05:53 Cixah wrote: I just saved it for people who eventually get out of range. It has such a big range that it picks up kills.
If you kill people who are out of melee range with it, it means the 15% dmg wasn't that big. That also means that if you had used it at the start of the fight, it would've done a lot more damage, which means your enemies would've died before they would even get out of range.
Actually come to think of it, doesn't this make Xin a really fucking good initiator now? E (or run, I guess) in, peg the carry, R for chunky damage and split them up, rest of the team engages.
Rather, it would work better following up something like Galio or Malph ult, that way you don't risk too much damage to yourself. My goodness, can you imagine Malph jungle with Xin top? Knock up -> knockback engage would be fucking terrifying.
On July 20 2012 04:49 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: someone help me with some mathcraft?
since sona's power chord deals magic damage, i'm wondering what the relationship between hybrid pen and flat damage runes is when scaled into lategame. i imagine the penetration runes would outscale the flat ad at a certain resistance breakpoint, but what is that breakpoint?
also musing about standard AD build (IE PD LW) vs a tankier Triforce build with little AS given that her burst harass is significantly stronger and there's still a casting recovery on Q.
For what its worth, I been hangin out in the dominion (and 3v3) chat rooms a lot recently and there's a guy who's a big player of AD sona on the scar. He mentioned a few days ago he got a full set of hybrid pen runes specifically for her and seemed to be very happy about the purchase after a few games.
edit: it was actually more like him: "zomg just dropped 8k on full hybrid pen runes" me: "wtf? for who? those are questionable..." me: typing out long response like "i dunno they're not really worth it unless you specialize in multiple of the few champs that can reliably-" him: "for my AD sona main" me: delete everything I was typing, instead say "oh, yeah, that makes sense" channel: "good idea wat do you think" him: "I thought I was strong before. now... unstoppable!"
re: your second point I apologize if I'm stating the obvious, it would seem to me the ie/tf first question is the same as with like ezreal or corki... I dunno why people try to pick one or the other to be better ... obviously derp edge is more dmg and trinitard force is more utility. It depends on who your support is, how the game is going, and what role you need to play during laning/post laning ie: when you auto>q>powerchord sometimes u want phage, sometimes u want sheen, sometimes u want fat autos from best friend swords or stacked dorans.
On July 20 2012 06:39 Logrus wrote: I dunno why people try to pick one or the other to be better ... obviously derp edge is more dmg and trinitard force is more utility. It depends on who your support is how the game is going and what role you need to play during laning/post laning ie: when you auto>q>powerchord sometimes u want phage, sometimes u want sheen, sometimes u want best friend swords.
Uh, isn't triforce more damage than iedge? (Before you complete PD etc.)
nah, i get the relationship, i just wanna know an actual breakdown of the math. with the cast recovery of Q there'll be a point in stacking AS where the burst from aa-q-powerchord causes you to lose autoattacks. my question is more along those lines, i just phrased it incorrectly.
Or even, solo top lane, boots, wriggles, sheen, atmog's + wit's, finish triforce?
If you can reach a similar DPS numbers on champions with fewer items based on mechanics (Sona's Power Chord in this case), and trade tower pewpew speed for survivability, that opens options. The question is where those breakpoints lie
edit: will full reds/quints, you'll have 15 arpen and 9 mpen using hybrid quints. How does that compare to flat AD reds for Sona's kit? :D
On July 20 2012 05:02 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: quick test on lvl 1 burst was surprising, mostly just with how clean the combo is. getting that single auto makes a big difference!
starting boots, 15 AD from masteries, 21/9/0, Q aura up: 73 (auto) + 80 (q) + ([73x2]+18) = 317 damage before reduction. Doran's blade open puts that number at 347.
lvl 7 with lvl 4 Q, two dorans + sheen: 127 + 200 + ( ([127x2]+78) x2) = 991 damage before reduction
lvl 7 with boots, one dorans, and BF (lol): 152 + 200 + ([152x2]+78) = 734
can power chord crit? no idea how i dont know the answer to that LOL
I'm puzzled why you have ( ([127x2]+78) x2). I'm assuming the 78 is your power chord damage and 127 is your attack damage. Sheen only doubles your base attack damage, so at level 7 for Sona that is 68 damage. So your burst is going to be AA + Q + PC + AA + Sheen.
I'm going to assume your 127 damage is accurate because I don't know what runes you are using, in which case your level 7 burst with Sheen will be:
127 + 200 + 78x2 + 127 + 68 = 678
Still pretty good considering she can do that every ~7 seconds.
Armour pen is going to be stronger than flat AD by the time you buy your first damage item, flat AD is taken because it makes last hitting easier and once you have LW and enemies have a ton of armour the difference is very small.
That said, just using your burst combo, 45% of the damage is physical and 55% is magical. This falls within the range where hybrid runes are the most efficient.
On July 20 2012 04:49 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: someone help me with some mathcraft?
since sona's power chord deals magic damage, i'm wondering what the relationship between hybrid pen and flat damage runes is when scaled into lategame. i imagine the penetration runes would outscale the flat ad at a certain resistance breakpoint, but what is that breakpoint?
also musing about standard AD build (IE PD LW) vs a tankier Triforce build with little AS given that her burst harass is significantly stronger and there's still a casting recovery on Q.
I didn't keep the numbers, but calculations I ran based on how your damage is split between physical and magic indicated that when hybrid > ArPen, MPen has been better for awhile already, and the other way round. There is never a case where hybrid > both single pens.
Looks like you're right, Sheen just adds your base attack damage onto your next auto. Damn!
Power Chord I'm not so sure of. It adds 8 x (10 per level) onto your next attack, but the Q aura bonus states that her next attack will double the damage of Power Chord. Does that mean it does 127 + (78 x 2)? or (127 + 78) x 2? testing in a bot game it sure looks like the latter; with two dorans and a sheen i was surprised at how hard I chunked enemy champs at low level.
so it's either 127 + 200 + [127 + (78 x 2)] + 68 = 678 if Q aura only doubles the BONUS damage from Power Chord or 127 + 200 + [(127 + 78) x 2] + 68 = 805 if Q aura causes the Power Chorded attack to deal double damage.
On July 20 2012 04:49 FakeSteve[TPR] wrote: someone help me with some mathcraft?
since sona's power chord deals magic damage, i'm wondering what the relationship between hybrid pen and flat damage runes is when scaled into lategame. i imagine the penetration runes would outscale the flat ad at a certain resistance breakpoint, but what is that breakpoint?
also musing about standard AD build (IE PD LW) vs a tankier Triforce build with little AS given that her burst harass is significantly stronger and there's still a casting recovery on Q.
I didn't keep the numbers, but calculations I ran based on how your damage is split between physical and magic indicated that when hybrid > ArPen, MPen has been better for awhile already, and the other way round. There is never a case where hybrid > both single pens.
what, really? hybrid pen runes are never better than full arpen or full mpen? that makes no sense at all with damage so evenly split between phys and magic. are they that inefficient on a per-slot basis?
On July 20 2012 07:06 arb wrote: theres no way for there to be maphacks in game is there?
The way I understand it, the local client only knows something is in the brush until you checked it. This is very different from how WC3/SC2 works.
Wasn't there an exploit that could determine locations of wards based on the fact that the local client needs to know where wards are placed in order to determine whether to play the ward placement sound?
EPT
