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On July 19 2012 13:01 NeoIllusions wrote:
What Cheep said
MOAR TEAMS, MOAR SCRIMS!!~
No, but seriously, find friends and make teams. No joke~
As much as I'd love to do this..
Two of the friends I usually play with are pretty new. Like, level 15s. I feel that if we matched up vs another TL team they'd get stomped (which I don't mind because they'd learn -- but it'd be boring for the other team I imagine).
I guess I would be down to team up with some TLers and then just have a seperate team with them though.
Is there a possibility of putting an average skill level next to a team in the OP once people start forming them? I think it'd be much better for matchups (could average ELO or something like that).
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United States37500 Posts
On July 20 2012 01:30 Mondeezy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 13:01 NeoIllusions wrote:
What Cheep said
MOAR TEAMS, MOAR SCRIMS!!~
No, but seriously, find friends and make teams. No joke~ As much as I'd love to do this.. Two of the friends I usually play with are pretty new. Like, level 15s. I feel that if we matched up vs another TL team they'd get stomped (which I don't mind because they'd learn -- but it'd be boring for the other team I imagine). I guess I would be down to team up with some TLers and then just have a seperate team with them though. Is there a possibility of putting an average skill level next to a team in the OP once people start forming them? I think it'd be much better for matchups (could average ELO or something like that).
Level 15s are pretty low, probably just have them play more normal games until they feel more comfortable with the game. At their level, they're barely scratching the surface of LoL.
In due time, when we have more teams assembled, would be nice to schedule games with other TL teams near/around your elo.
In the end, the whole point of LP in general is to promote friendly competition.
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I gotta say i dont feel like i learned much last night. what are you supposed to learn vs a ez morg bot lane lol.
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Summoner Name: deathsta2
ELO: 1730
Preferred Role(s): NOT mid
Schedule: No Real Schedule, nights usually
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United States37500 Posts
On July 20 2012 01:45 MindBreaker wrote:
I gotta say i dont feel like i learned much last night. what are you supposed to learn vs a ez morg bot lane lol.
Morg support, real.
Not all games will be a learning experience. ;o
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On July 20 2012 01:45 MindBreaker wrote:
I gotta say i dont feel like i learned much last night. what are you supposed to learn vs a ez morg bot lane lol.
Mindbreaker you probably have to go up against an AD who isn't Vowels. Sometimes going against someone who's skill level is much higher than yours helps you learn a way to play you never really considered but sometimes it just puts you way out of your depth; believe me, I understand that.
Even if you don't think you learned anything I'm sure there's a few things you can probably take away. I also suggest watching the VODs from yesterday and trying to pinpoint the places where you made mistakes and what else you could've done.
Keep at it!
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On July 20 2012 01:45 MindBreaker wrote:
I gotta say i dont feel like i learned much last night. what are you supposed to learn vs a ez morg bot lane lol.
I feel like there's always something to learn. I recall vowels saying you were getting hit by a lot of free Qs, perhaps you need to work on your positioning! Staying behind creeps and being aware of when he's going to try to harass you. Also cs better, but everyone needs to work on that.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 20 2012 01:45 MindBreaker wrote:
I gotta say i dont feel like i learned much last night. what are you supposed to learn vs a ez morg bot lane lol.
I talked to Milo about this. He'd meant to give critiques to you after the game, but he ended up forgetting to do so and ended up just looking BM.
Biggest piece of advice is mana management. Every time I looked bot, you were pretty much dry on mana, and Milo told me you pretty much stayed that way all the time. Don't waste your Qs as Corki, because if you have no mana, you have no trading power in lane, which means you're just going to get bullied, regardless of what AD/Support you're against.
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Summoner: Stabs
Elo: 1400
Preferred Role: Really want to improve in general but I mainly focus on Jungle (really terrible at botlane :[)
Not available Tuesday/Thursday
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On July 20 2012 01:45 MindBreaker wrote:
I gotta say i dont feel like i learned much last night. what are you supposed to learn vs a ez morg bot lane lol.
On corki you really have to manage your mana well in lane. Q spam is no good, especially at level 1. You want to take advantage of the fact that Q has no travel time, which means if you're smart about it you can harrass them without taking any damage in return (or at least only an auto or something).
This can be achieved by waiting for the enemy AD to move in for a CS, and then hitting them with Q + auto and animation cancelling and moving back instantly. If you land this a couple times they'll be warry about going in for last hits.
Other notes about mana consumption on Corki: Don't E during laning phase unless you're all-in or you think you're gonna get a kill. If you just turn it on as part of your harass, you'll run oom and inflict minimal damage. Also, don't W unless you really need to (you're going to die, or you're going to get a kill). It's okay to use W in some other situations too, but it's hard to describe and you'll just have to get a feel for it. For example vs taric graves if you're in a bad position and see taric's stun particle, you can W back toward your tower and avoid graves' E->Q->W-> auto combo + shatter (which would leave you chunked pretty badly).
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On July 20 2012 03:41 Perplex wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 01:45 MindBreaker wrote:
I gotta say i dont feel like i learned much last night. what are you supposed to learn vs a ez morg bot lane lol. On corki you really have to manage your mana well in lane. Q spam is no good, especially at level 1. You want to take advantage of the fact that Q has no travel time, which means if you're smart about it you can harrass them without taking any damage in return (or at least only an auto or something). This can be achieved by waiting for the enemy AD to move in for a CS, and then hitting them with Q + auto and animation cancelling and moving back instantly. If you land this a couple times they'll be warry about going in for last hits. Other notes about mana consumption on Corki: Don't E during laning phase unless you're all-in or you think you're gonna get a kill. If you just turn it on as part of your harass, you'll run oom and inflict minimal damage. Also, don't W unless you really need to (you're going to die, or you're going to get a kill). It's okay to use W in some other situations too, but it's hard to describe and you'll just have to get a feel for it. For example vs taric graves if you're in a bad position and see taric's stun particle, you can W back toward your tower and avoid graves' E->Q->W-> auto combo + shatter (which would leave you chunked pretty badly).
Why would anyone get Q on lvl 1?
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We made a tl practice team but was just to practice teamwork in rank 5,s because wasnt any ih we let princess jarvan carry us
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United States47024 Posts
On July 20 2012 03:52 Sufficiency wrote:
Why would anyone get Q on lvl 1?
Trading power.
If the enemy laner knows you don't have Q level 1, you will lose a trade level 1 to Ashe auto+Volley, Graves auto+Buckshot, etc. because you don't have an equivalent spell to trade with.
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On July 20 2012 03:52 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 03:41 Perplex wrote:On July 20 2012 01:45 MindBreaker wrote:
I gotta say i dont feel like i learned much last night. what are you supposed to learn vs a ez morg bot lane lol. On corki you really have to manage your mana well in lane. Q spam is no good, especially at level 1. You want to take advantage of the fact that Q has no travel time, which means if you're smart about it you can harrass them without taking any damage in return (or at least only an auto or something). This can be achieved by waiting for the enemy AD to move in for a CS, and then hitting them with Q + auto and animation cancelling and moving back instantly. If you land this a couple times they'll be warry about going in for last hits. Other notes about mana consumption on Corki: Don't E during laning phase unless you're all-in or you think you're gonna get a kill. If you just turn it on as part of your harass, you'll run oom and inflict minimal damage. Also, don't W unless you really need to (you're going to die, or you're going to get a kill). It's okay to use W in some other situations too, but it's hard to describe and you'll just have to get a feel for it. For example vs taric graves if you're in a bad position and see taric's stun particle, you can W back toward your tower and avoid graves' E->Q->W-> auto combo + shatter (which would leave you chunked pretty badly). Why would anyone get Q on lvl 1?
..what else would you take at level 1 besides Q?
why would anyone take anything but Q at level 1
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United States47024 Posts
On July 20 2012 05:01 Perplex wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 03:52 Sufficiency wrote:On July 20 2012 03:41 Perplex wrote:On July 20 2012 01:45 MindBreaker wrote:
I gotta say i dont feel like i learned much last night. what are you supposed to learn vs a ez morg bot lane lol. On corki you really have to manage your mana well in lane. Q spam is no good, especially at level 1. You want to take advantage of the fact that Q has no travel time, which means if you're smart about it you can harrass them without taking any damage in return (or at least only an auto or something). This can be achieved by waiting for the enemy AD to move in for a CS, and then hitting them with Q + auto and animation cancelling and moving back instantly. If you land this a couple times they'll be warry about going in for last hits. Other notes about mana consumption on Corki: Don't E during laning phase unless you're all-in or you think you're gonna get a kill. If you just turn it on as part of your harass, you'll run oom and inflict minimal damage. Also, don't W unless you really need to (you're going to die, or you're going to get a kill). It's okay to use W in some other situations too, but it's hard to describe and you'll just have to get a feel for it. For example vs taric graves if you're in a bad position and see taric's stun particle, you can W back toward your tower and avoid graves' E->Q->W-> auto combo + shatter (which would leave you chunked pretty badly). Why would anyone get Q on lvl 1? ..what else would you take at level 1 besides Q? why would anyone take anything but Q at level 1
I mean, I wouldn't use that skill point until I'm 100% sure which one I need. Leave the skill point unspent until the absolute last second, either doing ctrl+Q->Q for a trade or ctrl+W->W to escape a bad level 1 fight or level 2 from the enemy jungler.
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On July 20 2012 05:34 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 05:01 Perplex wrote:On July 20 2012 03:52 Sufficiency wrote:On July 20 2012 03:41 Perplex wrote:On July 20 2012 01:45 MindBreaker wrote:
I gotta say i dont feel like i learned much last night. what are you supposed to learn vs a ez morg bot lane lol. On corki you really have to manage your mana well in lane. Q spam is no good, especially at level 1. You want to take advantage of the fact that Q has no travel time, which means if you're smart about it you can harrass them without taking any damage in return (or at least only an auto or something). This can be achieved by waiting for the enemy AD to move in for a CS, and then hitting them with Q + auto and animation cancelling and moving back instantly. If you land this a couple times they'll be warry about going in for last hits. Other notes about mana consumption on Corki: Don't E during laning phase unless you're all-in or you think you're gonna get a kill. If you just turn it on as part of your harass, you'll run oom and inflict minimal damage. Also, don't W unless you really need to (you're going to die, or you're going to get a kill). It's okay to use W in some other situations too, but it's hard to describe and you'll just have to get a feel for it. For example vs taric graves if you're in a bad position and see taric's stun particle, you can W back toward your tower and avoid graves' E->Q->W-> auto combo + shatter (which would leave you chunked pretty badly). Why would anyone get Q on lvl 1? ..what else would you take at level 1 besides Q? why would anyone take anything but Q at level 1 I mean, I wouldn't use that skill point until I'm 100% sure which one I need. Leave the skill point unspent until the absolute last second, either doing ctrl+Q->Q for a trade or ctrl+W->W to escape a bad level 1 fight or level 2 from the enemy jungler.
You always take q at level one because if you don't you can't trade and most lanes can zone you.
Level 2 ganks bot are very rare and can only really catch you if your support doesn't ward.
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On July 20 2012 05:43 dae wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 05:34 TheYango wrote:On July 20 2012 05:01 Perplex wrote:On July 20 2012 03:52 Sufficiency wrote:On July 20 2012 03:41 Perplex wrote:On July 20 2012 01:45 MindBreaker wrote:
I gotta say i dont feel like i learned much last night. what are you supposed to learn vs a ez morg bot lane lol. On corki you really have to manage your mana well in lane. Q spam is no good, especially at level 1. You want to take advantage of the fact that Q has no travel time, which means if you're smart about it you can harrass them without taking any damage in return (or at least only an auto or something). This can be achieved by waiting for the enemy AD to move in for a CS, and then hitting them with Q + auto and animation cancelling and moving back instantly. If you land this a couple times they'll be warry about going in for last hits. Other notes about mana consumption on Corki: Don't E during laning phase unless you're all-in or you think you're gonna get a kill. If you just turn it on as part of your harass, you'll run oom and inflict minimal damage. Also, don't W unless you really need to (you're going to die, or you're going to get a kill). It's okay to use W in some other situations too, but it's hard to describe and you'll just have to get a feel for it. For example vs taric graves if you're in a bad position and see taric's stun particle, you can W back toward your tower and avoid graves' E->Q->W-> auto combo + shatter (which would leave you chunked pretty badly). Why would anyone get Q on lvl 1? ..what else would you take at level 1 besides Q? why would anyone take anything but Q at level 1 I mean, I wouldn't use that skill point until I'm 100% sure which one I need. Leave the skill point unspent until the absolute last second, either doing ctrl+Q->Q for a trade or ctrl+W->W to escape a bad level 1 fight or level 2 from the enemy jungler. You always take q at level one because if you don't you can't trade and most lanes can zone you. Level 2 ganks bot are very rare and can only really catch you if your support doesn't ward.
I assume he's talking about pre-laning, i.e. having to use W to escape from an invade or level 1 teamfight.
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United States47024 Posts
On July 20 2012 05:43 dae wrote:
You always take q at level one because if you don't you can't trade and most lanes can zone you.
Level 2 ganks bot are very rare and can only really catch you if your support doesn't ward.
See, I can't agree with any hero skilling in fountain. It's trivially easy to skill the split second before you actually need the skill, and not getting first blooded outweighs having trading power that you can easily skill into while you're performing the autoattack animation. If you take Q, and die in a level 1 teamfight because of it, you still can't trade in lane because the enemy AD will come back with extra pots or a DBlade.
On like 90% of heroes the answer of "what skill do I take at level 1" should be "save the skill point until the absolute last second when you know which one you need", because it takes almost zero effort to press ctrl+Q/W/E and skill at the last second rather than doing it early.
So the answer here should be "take Q usually to trade, but don't skill until that happens because there's a slim chance that you will need W".
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On July 20 2012 01:45 MindBreaker wrote:
I gotta say i dont feel like i learned much last night. what are you supposed to learn vs a ez morg bot lane lol.
Hi, sorry for following you around at bot last night, people called other lanes :o
At least in lane, facing morg shouldn't be do different from something like leona or blitz: avoid skillshots, and watch out for cc if you get too close. morg is easier than leona or blitz early because until 6 she doesnt have an additional cc once she gets in melee range
imo your biggest mistakes were positioning and spell usage. Against ez you should be constantly watching where I'm standing and always put a creep between us. If you do this and janna shields you whenever I try to engage, I can't really win trades because I don't have a nuke to counter your Q. For example when you were graves you got hit by auto+Q immediately because you were standing outside of creeps, and the lane snowballed from there. The advice others gave about mana usage + using spells when im csing is also good.
Btw good stuff Wave, love your stream + commentary ^.^
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On July 20 2012 05:46 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2012 05:43 dae wrote:
You always take q at level one because if you don't you can't trade and most lanes can zone you.
Level 2 ganks bot are very rare and can only really catch you if your support doesn't ward.
See, I can't agree with any hero skilling in fountain. It's trivially easy to skill the split second before you actually need the skill, and not getting first blooded outweighs having trading power that you can easily skill into while you're performing the autoattack animation. If you take Q, and die in a level 1 teamfight because of it, you still can't trade in lane because the enemy AD will come back with extra pots or a DBlade. On like 90% of heroes the answer of "what skill do I take at level 1" should be "save the skill point until the absolute last second when you know which one you need", because it takes almost zero effort to press ctrl+Q/W/E and skill at the last second rather than doing it early. So the answer here should be "take Q usually to trade, but don't skill until that happens because there's a slim chance that you will need W".
I think I made my answer too simple.
I don't skill q in fountain, I skill it when I start double golems, or right as we invade, or right after I get into lane.
(I take q>w for level 1 teamfights b/c its alot of burst, the sight helps when you catch someone, and your usually not right in the front and being focused to the point where w would be needed).
AFTER you get into lane I don't see why you would w>q ever, however you leave the skill open in the chance you get jumped by 5 people level one to get away.
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EPT
