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On July 19 2012 05:58 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:
Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically.
In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. In your dreams. You ALWAYS have to keep an eye on all 10 players as support in fights. Your allies can't call everything (and if they did, you'd not be able to understand a damn thing because 4 people would talk at once). In fact any non-support is focusing on certain stuff which hardly ever is their allies, if one of them calls for a Soraka ult that might still be a horrible call. Laning as a support requires loads of knowledge about 2v2 matches and jungle interactions. Much harder to learn that just 1v1 + jungle simply because there's a lot more different setups. If anything, support skill ceiling is higher than any other roles.
To say support skill ceiling is *higher* than any other roles is clearly pushing it. At best you can say that support is a very precise role that once mistakes are made it's hard to come back from.
On July 19 2012 05:59 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 05:57 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:54 Perplex wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:10 Perplex wrote:On July 19 2012 03:44 JackDino wrote:
So locust kicked/left dig.
So apparently pendragon banned someone for 3days because he wanted to random a champion:http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=490333&d=1342634409
http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/news/League-of-Legends/1836/Team-Dignitas-parts-ways-with-L0CUST/Yep looks like they let him go. that's weird though I never noticed anything wrong with L0CUST in particular.. in fact I thought he was quite consistent. Maybe I just haven't been watching Dig enough Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically. In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. On July 19 2012 05:39 MooMooMugi wrote:
If anything I thought Qtpie would be kicked, not good guy L0CUST. I felt that his Draven in OGN was fantastic. L0cust just kept getting caught. I can't even articulate how wrong this is. Have you ever played with a support over 2k? It's like playing a different game. I don't know how to explain it but support does not by any means have a low skill cap or require "soft" skills exclusively. But it's still much harder to land your Cass's Q while kiting your enemies with E in a chaotic teamfight than clicking Shurelia's and spam Q as Soraka. I am sure EVERYONE agrees with that. I'm sure that everyone also agrees that playing janna in a teamfight is way way harder than playing ryze in a teamfight. What's your point?
When you talk about Janna, are you talking about her ultimate? I feel that if you ult incorrectly with Janna, you are probably not picking her into the right composition (considering how bad her early game is). Putting her ultimate aside, the rest of her kit is very simple to use in a teamfight. You shield your carry as often as you can, W + Q to deter bruisers getting onto your carry, kite around with your mobility, and use Locket as a backup.
Ryze does have his challenges. Mostly that his range is really not that different from an AD carry and he needs to choose his target smartly. This kind of decision making is at least on-par with deciding when to use Janna ult.
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On July 19 2012 06:09 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 05:58 spinesheath wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:
Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically.
In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. In your dreams. You ALWAYS have to keep an eye on all 10 players as support in fights. Your allies can't call everything (and if they did, you'd not be able to understand a damn thing because 4 people would talk at once). In fact any non-support is focusing on certain stuff which hardly ever is their allies, if one of them calls for a Soraka ult that might still be a horrible call. Laning as a support requires loads of knowledge about 2v2 matches and jungle interactions. Much harder to learn that just 1v1 + jungle simply because there's a lot more different setups. If anything, support skill ceiling is higher than any other roles. To say support skill ceiling is *higher* than any other roles is clearly pushing it. At best you can say that support is a very precise role that once mistakes are made it's hard to come back from.
It's like playing a healer in WoW or any other game, it's way the fuck harder than you think it is. You literally have to be cognizant of everything that's happening. Maybe it's less mechanically intensive (Soraka's kit is much more simple than Cass's, as you say, Taric stuns, heals, and WR combo is easier than something like Draven's kit), but there are way more mental and strategic hoops to jump through.
I played a Paladin in WoW, did all 3 specs (heal, tank, dps) at least for a bit. I also diversify my LoL roles from bruisers/tanks, to carries, to support. Playing a damage role is more intensive in landing a combo or using all your skills effectively (depending on the champ/class, of course), but mentally you really only make checks to see "who should I be attacking?" and "should I be in the fight or running?". Support roles (like healers and tanks in WoW, support in LoL) are constantly worrying about zoning, positioning not only for themselves, but for others (standing between carry and Blitz, for example), optimal timing and target for abilities (triage on healing abilities, holding Kayle/Zil ult), map awareness (warding is primarily the Support's job, as is pinging and map watching), using offensive abilities right (silence from Soraka, for example, to save or blow early), etc.
In comparison, the support is not only worried about themselves, but everyone else, including all enemies and allies. Carries are worried about themselves and the optimal target; bruisers/tanks are worried about themselves, the enemy carry, and their own for peeling.
So yeah, playing support isn't just "herp derp easy mode healing".
Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 05:59 JackDino wrote:On July 19 2012 05:57 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:54 Perplex wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:10 Perplex wrote:On July 19 2012 03:44 JackDino wrote:
So locust kicked/left dig.
So apparently pendragon banned someone for 3days because he wanted to random a champion:http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=490333&d=1342634409
http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/news/League-of-Legends/1836/Team-Dignitas-parts-ways-with-L0CUST/Yep looks like they let him go. that's weird though I never noticed anything wrong with L0CUST in particular.. in fact I thought he was quite consistent. Maybe I just haven't been watching Dig enough Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically. In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. On July 19 2012 05:39 MooMooMugi wrote:
If anything I thought Qtpie would be kicked, not good guy L0CUST. I felt that his Draven in OGN was fantastic. L0cust just kept getting caught. I can't even articulate how wrong this is. Have you ever played with a support over 2k? It's like playing a different game. I don't know how to explain it but support does not by any means have a low skill cap or require "soft" skills exclusively. But it's still much harder to land your Cass's Q while kiting your enemies with E in a chaotic teamfight than clicking Shurelia's and spam Q as Soraka. I am sure EVERYONE agrees with that. I'm sure that everyone also agrees that playing janna in a teamfight is way way harder than playing ryze in a teamfight. What's your point? When you talk about Janna, are you talking about her ultimate? I feel that if you ult incorrectly with Janna, you are probably not picking her into the right composition (considering how bad her early game is). Putting her ultimate aside, the rest of her kit is very simple to use in a teamfight. You shield your carry as often as you can, W + Q to deter bruisers getting onto your carry, kite around with your mobility, and use Locket as a backup. Ryze does have his challenges. Mostly that his range is really not that different from an AD carry and he needs to choose his target smartly. This kind of decision making is at least on-par with deciding when to use Janna ult.
Choosing a target is not the same as peeling for an entire team with an entire kit made for peeling and proper positioning for ult usage, as well as making sure you constantly are in range to shield the AD, but also to use the shield to save someone else from dying. Ryze chooses his target, hits every button on them, and then assesses whether to keep on them, run away, or switch targets. Not even close.
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On July 19 2012 06:21 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 06:09 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:58 spinesheath wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:
Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically.
In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. In your dreams. You ALWAYS have to keep an eye on all 10 players as support in fights. Your allies can't call everything (and if they did, you'd not be able to understand a damn thing because 4 people would talk at once). In fact any non-support is focusing on certain stuff which hardly ever is their allies, if one of them calls for a Soraka ult that might still be a horrible call. Laning as a support requires loads of knowledge about 2v2 matches and jungle interactions. Much harder to learn that just 1v1 + jungle simply because there's a lot more different setups. If anything, support skill ceiling is higher than any other roles. To say support skill ceiling is *higher* than any other roles is clearly pushing it. At best you can say that support is a very precise role that once mistakes are made it's hard to come back from. It's like playing a healer in WoW or any other game, it's way the fuck harder than you think it is. You literally have to be cognizant of everything that's happening. Maybe it's less mechanically intensive (Soraka's kit is much more simple than Cass's, as you say, Taric stuns, heals, and WR combo is easier than something like Draven's kit), but there are way more mental and strategic hoops to jump through. I played a Paladin in WoW, did all 3 specs (heal, tank, dps) at least for a bit. I also diversify my LoL roles from bruisers/tanks, to carries, to support. Playing a damage role is more intensive in landing a combo or using all your skills effectively (depending on the champ/class, of course), but mentally you really only make checks to see "who should I be attacking?" and "should I be in the fight or running?". Support roles (like healers and tanks in WoW, support in LoL) are constantly worrying about zoning, positioning not only for themselves, but for others (standing between carry and Blitz, for example), optimal timing and target for abilities (triage on healing abilities, holding Kayle/Zil ult), map awareness (warding is primarily the Support's job, as is pinging and map watching), using offensive abilities right (silence from Soraka, for example, to save or blow early), etc. In comparison, the support is not only worried about themselves, but everyone else, including all enemies and allies. Carries are worried about themselves and the optimal target; bruisers/tanks are worried about themselves, the enemy carry, and their own for peeling. So yeah, playing support isn't just "herp derp easy mode healing".
Healing in WoW was probably the hardest part of any raid. Seriously, I tried that shit, failed pretty hard, and said "NOPE FUCK THIS BACK TO TANKING"
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On July 19 2012 06:23 VirgilSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 06:21 Requizen wrote:On July 19 2012 06:09 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:58 spinesheath wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:
Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically.
In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. In your dreams. You ALWAYS have to keep an eye on all 10 players as support in fights. Your allies can't call everything (and if they did, you'd not be able to understand a damn thing because 4 people would talk at once). In fact any non-support is focusing on certain stuff which hardly ever is their allies, if one of them calls for a Soraka ult that might still be a horrible call. Laning as a support requires loads of knowledge about 2v2 matches and jungle interactions. Much harder to learn that just 1v1 + jungle simply because there's a lot more different setups. If anything, support skill ceiling is higher than any other roles. To say support skill ceiling is *higher* than any other roles is clearly pushing it. At best you can say that support is a very precise role that once mistakes are made it's hard to come back from. It's like playing a healer in WoW or any other game, it's way the fuck harder than you think it is. You literally have to be cognizant of everything that's happening. Maybe it's less mechanically intensive (Soraka's kit is much more simple than Cass's, as you say, Taric stuns, heals, and WR combo is easier than something like Draven's kit), but there are way more mental and strategic hoops to jump through. I played a Paladin in WoW, did all 3 specs (heal, tank, dps) at least for a bit. I also diversify my LoL roles from bruisers/tanks, to carries, to support. Playing a damage role is more intensive in landing a combo or using all your skills effectively (depending on the champ/class, of course), but mentally you really only make checks to see "who should I be attacking?" and "should I be in the fight or running?". Support roles (like healers and tanks in WoW, support in LoL) are constantly worrying about zoning, positioning not only for themselves, but for others (standing between carry and Blitz, for example), optimal timing and target for abilities (triage on healing abilities, holding Kayle/Zil ult), map awareness (warding is primarily the Support's job, as is pinging and map watching), using offensive abilities right (silence from Soraka, for example, to save or blow early), etc. In comparison, the support is not only worried about themselves, but everyone else, including all enemies and allies. Carries are worried about themselves and the optimal target; bruisers/tanks are worried about themselves, the enemy carry, and their own for peeling. So yeah, playing support isn't just "herp derp easy mode healing". Healing in WoW was probably the hardest part of any raid. Seriously, I tried that shit, failed pretty hard, and said "NOPE FUCK THIS BACK TO TANKING"
I remember we used to get really unlucky doing Rag and shit like that and a tank would die, our healers used to always bitch healing was a pain in the ass compared to everything else
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On July 19 2012 06:09 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 05:58 spinesheath wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:
Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically.
In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. In your dreams. You ALWAYS have to keep an eye on all 10 players as support in fights. Your allies can't call everything (and if they did, you'd not be able to understand a damn thing because 4 people would talk at once). In fact any non-support is focusing on certain stuff which hardly ever is their allies, if one of them calls for a Soraka ult that might still be a horrible call. Laning as a support requires loads of knowledge about 2v2 matches and jungle interactions. Much harder to learn that just 1v1 + jungle simply because there's a lot more different setups. If anything, support skill ceiling is higher than any other roles. To say support skill ceiling is *higher* than any other roles is clearly pushing it. At best you can say that support is a very precise role that once mistakes are made it's hard to come back from. Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 05:59 JackDino wrote:On July 19 2012 05:57 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:54 Perplex wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:10 Perplex wrote:On July 19 2012 03:44 JackDino wrote:
So locust kicked/left dig.
So apparently pendragon banned someone for 3days because he wanted to random a champion:http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=490333&d=1342634409
http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/news/League-of-Legends/1836/Team-Dignitas-parts-ways-with-L0CUST/Yep looks like they let him go. that's weird though I never noticed anything wrong with L0CUST in particular.. in fact I thought he was quite consistent. Maybe I just haven't been watching Dig enough Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically. In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. On July 19 2012 05:39 MooMooMugi wrote:
If anything I thought Qtpie would be kicked, not good guy L0CUST. I felt that his Draven in OGN was fantastic. L0cust just kept getting caught. I can't even articulate how wrong this is. Have you ever played with a support over 2k? It's like playing a different game. I don't know how to explain it but support does not by any means have a low skill cap or require "soft" skills exclusively. But it's still much harder to land your Cass's Q while kiting your enemies with E in a chaotic teamfight than clicking Shurelia's and spam Q as Soraka. I am sure EVERYONE agrees with that. I'm sure that everyone also agrees that playing janna in a teamfight is way way harder than playing ryze in a teamfight. What's your point? When you talk about Janna, are you talking about her ultimate? I feel that if you ult incorrectly with Janna, you are probably not picking her into the right composition (considering how bad her early game is). Putting her ultimate aside, the rest of her kit is very simple to use in a teamfight. You shield your carry as often as you can, W + Q to deter bruisers getting onto your carry, kite around with your mobility, and use Locket as a backup. Ryze does have his challenges. Mostly that his range is really not that different from an AD carry and he needs to choose his target smartly. This kind of decision making is at least on-par with deciding when to use Janna ult.
janna is simple? her early game is bad? lol you should probably stop.
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Ah, just watched Regi's vlog hahah. "Scarra feeds mid, better blame L0cust". :D
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On July 19 2012 06:09 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 05:58 spinesheath wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:
Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically.
In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. In your dreams. You ALWAYS have to keep an eye on all 10 players as support in fights. Your allies can't call everything (and if they did, you'd not be able to understand a damn thing because 4 people would talk at once). In fact any non-support is focusing on certain stuff which hardly ever is their allies, if one of them calls for a Soraka ult that might still be a horrible call. Laning as a support requires loads of knowledge about 2v2 matches and jungle interactions. Much harder to learn that just 1v1 + jungle simply because there's a lot more different setups. If anything, support skill ceiling is higher than any other roles. To say support skill ceiling is *higher* than any other roles is clearly pushing it. At best you can say that support is a very precise role that once mistakes are made it's hard to come back from. Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 05:59 JackDino wrote:On July 19 2012 05:57 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:54 Perplex wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:10 Perplex wrote:On July 19 2012 03:44 JackDino wrote:
So locust kicked/left dig.
So apparently pendragon banned someone for 3days because he wanted to random a champion:http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=490333&d=1342634409
http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/news/League-of-Legends/1836/Team-Dignitas-parts-ways-with-L0CUST/Yep looks like they let him go. that's weird though I never noticed anything wrong with L0CUST in particular.. in fact I thought he was quite consistent. Maybe I just haven't been watching Dig enough Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically. In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. On July 19 2012 05:39 MooMooMugi wrote:
If anything I thought Qtpie would be kicked, not good guy L0CUST. I felt that his Draven in OGN was fantastic. L0cust just kept getting caught. I can't even articulate how wrong this is. Have you ever played with a support over 2k? It's like playing a different game. I don't know how to explain it but support does not by any means have a low skill cap or require "soft" skills exclusively. But it's still much harder to land your Cass's Q while kiting your enemies with E in a chaotic teamfight than clicking Shurelia's and spam Q as Soraka. I am sure EVERYONE agrees with that. I'm sure that everyone also agrees that playing janna in a teamfight is way way harder than playing ryze in a teamfight. What's your point? When you talk about Janna, are you talking about her ultimate? I feel that if you ult incorrectly with Janna, you are probably not picking her into the right composition (considering how bad her early game is). Putting her ultimate aside, the rest of her kit is very simple to use in a teamfight. You shield your carry as often as you can, W + Q to deter bruisers getting onto your carry, kite around with your mobility, and use Locket as a backup. Ryze does have his challenges. Mostly that his range is really not that different from an AD carry and he needs to choose his target smartly. This kind of decision making is at least on-par with deciding when to use Janna ult.
I'm hoping this is a joke and you did not just try to argue that Ryze is more difficult to play than Janna in a teamfight.
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On July 19 2012 05:48 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 05:39 MooMooMugi wrote:
If anything I thought Qtpie would be kicked, not good guy L0CUST. Why would qt get kicked?
He trolls and goes AFK in tourny games sometimes and I'm pretty sure Voyboy mentioned at one point they were discussing kicking him
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On July 19 2012 06:28 De4ngus wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 06:09 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:58 spinesheath wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:
Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically.
In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. In your dreams. You ALWAYS have to keep an eye on all 10 players as support in fights. Your allies can't call everything (and if they did, you'd not be able to understand a damn thing because 4 people would talk at once). In fact any non-support is focusing on certain stuff which hardly ever is their allies, if one of them calls for a Soraka ult that might still be a horrible call. Laning as a support requires loads of knowledge about 2v2 matches and jungle interactions. Much harder to learn that just 1v1 + jungle simply because there's a lot more different setups. If anything, support skill ceiling is higher than any other roles. To say support skill ceiling is *higher* than any other roles is clearly pushing it. At best you can say that support is a very precise role that once mistakes are made it's hard to come back from. On July 19 2012 05:59 JackDino wrote:On July 19 2012 05:57 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:54 Perplex wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:10 Perplex wrote:On July 19 2012 03:44 JackDino wrote:
So locust kicked/left dig.
So apparently pendragon banned someone for 3days because he wanted to random a champion:http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=490333&d=1342634409
http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/news/League-of-Legends/1836/Team-Dignitas-parts-ways-with-L0CUST/Yep looks like they let him go. that's weird though I never noticed anything wrong with L0CUST in particular.. in fact I thought he was quite consistent. Maybe I just haven't been watching Dig enough Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically. In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. On July 19 2012 05:39 MooMooMugi wrote:
If anything I thought Qtpie would be kicked, not good guy L0CUST. I felt that his Draven in OGN was fantastic. L0cust just kept getting caught. I can't even articulate how wrong this is. Have you ever played with a support over 2k? It's like playing a different game. I don't know how to explain it but support does not by any means have a low skill cap or require "soft" skills exclusively. But it's still much harder to land your Cass's Q while kiting your enemies with E in a chaotic teamfight than clicking Shurelia's and spam Q as Soraka. I am sure EVERYONE agrees with that. I'm sure that everyone also agrees that playing janna in a teamfight is way way harder than playing ryze in a teamfight. What's your point? When you talk about Janna, are you talking about her ultimate? I feel that if you ult incorrectly with Janna, you are probably not picking her into the right composition (considering how bad her early game is). Putting her ultimate aside, the rest of her kit is very simple to use in a teamfight. You shield your carry as often as you can, W + Q to deter bruisers getting onto your carry, kite around with your mobility, and use Locket as a backup. Ryze does have his challenges. Mostly that his range is really not that different from an AD carry and he needs to choose his target smartly. This kind of decision making is at least on-par with deciding when to use Janna ult. janna is simple? her early game is bad? lol you should probably stop.
I disagree. Janna's early laning phase is really, really weak. Her strongest strength in lane is to disengage certain jungler ganks, such as Noc's; otherwise, she isn't that great in a 2v2 situation due to all the nerfs on her during the last a few months. If you want strong laning phase, there is Alistar, Blitzcrank and Leona; if you want to be conservative, there is Soraka. Unfortunately Janna doesn't have sustain and it's difficult to play the poke game with Janna against Soraka.
Janna's strongest point (beside her ever-so-broken passive) is her teamfight. She can protect her team really, really well. Far more than any other support imo.
I really hate to quote this guy, but Elementz will agree with me on what I just said.
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On July 19 2012 06:32 MooMooMugi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 05:48 HazMat wrote:On July 19 2012 05:39 MooMooMugi wrote:
If anything I thought Qtpie would be kicked, not good guy L0CUST. Why would qt get kicked? He trolls and goes AFK in tourny games sometimes and I'm pretty sure Voyboy mentioned at one point they were discussing kicking him
Yeah it was on stream. Basically he said the thing that determined the outcome of a lot of their games was "how long L0CUST could endure QT's trolling on vent". He just wished qt would cut it out entirely. I think he got reprimanded or something for saying that though, because that's the last time he's every said anything team related on stream (at least that i've watched, and I watch a lot).
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On July 19 2012 06:31 Schnake wrote:Ah, just watched Regi's vlog hahah. "Scarra feeds mid, better blame L0cust". :D
Oh man, the irony in that one.
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On July 19 2012 06:31 Schnake wrote:Ah, just watched Regi's vlog hahah. "Scarra feeds mid, better blame L0cust". :D
And that adds to the lines of:
"Regi not doing to well and raging, better part with rainman"
"hotshot needs to improve top lane, better part with saintvicious"
"clg not doing to well, better bench elementz"
the only time i can think of where everyone kinda agreed was the fnatic parting with shushei, but so far I think we have pretty much seen that the teams mentioned ended up better off, if this was a team decision that means that it might have been something more behind than we can see right now, or that we will ever know. In the end only time will tell how if this was a good decision or not (iirc D all ready knows who they want as new support, which means they might have been looking into this for a while now, which could also explain some of the teams behaviour in korea ofc i am only speculating at this point)
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On July 19 2012 06:41 Vlanitak wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 06:31 Schnake wrote:On July 19 2012 04:29 HazMat wrote:On July 19 2012 04:23 Schnake wrote:On July 19 2012 04:17 HazMat wrote:
Wow L0CUST getting kicked is huge. Qt and him were like best friends. If anyone should be kicked it's Scarra but he's too popular. Could you elaborate on that? :-) http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/news/League-of-Legends/1836/Team-Dignitas-parts-ways-with-L0CUST/S2 finals soon and they kick their original member lol. I'm sure there's more to it then them losing in OGN but if it is then Scarra was a pretty big feeder there. Ah, just watched Regi's vlog hahah. "Scarra feeds mid, better blame L0cust". :D And that adds to the lines of: "Regi not doing to well and raging, better part with rainman" "hotshot needs to improve top lane, better part with saintvicious" "clg not doing to well, better bench elementz" the only time i can think of where everyone kinda agreed was the fnatic parting with shushei, but so far I think we have pretty much seen that the teams mentioned ended up better off, if this was a team decision that means that it might have been something more behind than we can see right now, or that we will ever know. In the end only time will tell how if this was a good decision or not (iirc D all ready knows who they want as new support, which means they might have been looking into this for a while now, which could also explain some of the teams behaviour in korea ofc i am only speculating at this point)
I am curious who their new support will be, huehuehue.
I think Dig was really handicapped in Korea because of IWDom's sickness. They couldn't even stay very long in Korea because, according to Scarra, IWDom was literally dying. They probably planned to scrim the Korean teams a lot but none of those things happened.
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On July 19 2012 06:35 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 06:28 De4ngus wrote:On July 19 2012 06:09 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:58 spinesheath wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:
Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically.
In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. In your dreams. You ALWAYS have to keep an eye on all 10 players as support in fights. Your allies can't call everything (and if they did, you'd not be able to understand a damn thing because 4 people would talk at once). In fact any non-support is focusing on certain stuff which hardly ever is their allies, if one of them calls for a Soraka ult that might still be a horrible call. Laning as a support requires loads of knowledge about 2v2 matches and jungle interactions. Much harder to learn that just 1v1 + jungle simply because there's a lot more different setups. If anything, support skill ceiling is higher than any other roles. To say support skill ceiling is *higher* than any other roles is clearly pushing it. At best you can say that support is a very precise role that once mistakes are made it's hard to come back from. On July 19 2012 05:59 JackDino wrote:On July 19 2012 05:57 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:54 Perplex wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:10 Perplex wrote:On July 19 2012 03:44 JackDino wrote:
So locust kicked/left dig.
So apparently pendragon banned someone for 3days because he wanted to random a champion:http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=490333&d=1342634409
http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/news/League-of-Legends/1836/Team-Dignitas-parts-ways-with-L0CUST/Yep looks like they let him go. that's weird though I never noticed anything wrong with L0CUST in particular.. in fact I thought he was quite consistent. Maybe I just haven't been watching Dig enough Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically. In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. On July 19 2012 05:39 MooMooMugi wrote:
If anything I thought Qtpie would be kicked, not good guy L0CUST. I felt that his Draven in OGN was fantastic. L0cust just kept getting caught. I can't even articulate how wrong this is. Have you ever played with a support over 2k? It's like playing a different game. I don't know how to explain it but support does not by any means have a low skill cap or require "soft" skills exclusively. But it's still much harder to land your Cass's Q while kiting your enemies with E in a chaotic teamfight than clicking Shurelia's and spam Q as Soraka. I am sure EVERYONE agrees with that. I'm sure that everyone also agrees that playing janna in a teamfight is way way harder than playing ryze in a teamfight. What's your point? When you talk about Janna, are you talking about her ultimate? I feel that if you ult incorrectly with Janna, you are probably not picking her into the right composition (considering how bad her early game is). Putting her ultimate aside, the rest of her kit is very simple to use in a teamfight. You shield your carry as often as you can, W + Q to deter bruisers getting onto your carry, kite around with your mobility, and use Locket as a backup. Ryze does have his challenges. Mostly that his range is really not that different from an AD carry and he needs to choose his target smartly. This kind of decision making is at least on-par with deciding when to use Janna ult. janna is simple? her early game is bad? lol you should probably stop. I disagree. Janna's early laning phase is really, really weak. Her strongest strength in lane is to disengage certain jungler ganks, such as Noc's; otherwise, she isn't that great in a 2v2 situation due to all the nerfs on her during the last a few months. If you want strong laning phase, there is Alistar, Blitzcrank and Leona; if you want to be conservative, there is Soraka. Unfortunately Janna doesn't have sustain and it's difficult to play the poke game with Janna against Soraka. Janna's strongest point (beside her ever-so-broken passive) is her teamfight. She can protect her team really, really well. Far more than any other support imo. I really hate to quote this guy, but Elementz will agree with me on what I just said.
2 peels, one of which is point and click with a good range, the other of which is a huge AoE and large range with a long duration; a shield (one of the best in the game), which is one of the best if not the best preemptive support abilities in the game, and a free MS boost makes for a bad laning phase?
It generally doesn't matter that she has no sustain outside of her ult when you can negate the first few shots of any exchange and CC the enemy with Q. Landing Q and putting up a shield makes for probably the strongest trading prowess outside of Nunu or Blitz.
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On July 19 2012 06:32 MooMooMugi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 05:48 HazMat wrote:On July 19 2012 05:39 MooMooMugi wrote:
If anything I thought Qtpie would be kicked, not good guy L0CUST. Why would qt get kicked? He trolls and goes AFK in tourny games sometimes and I'm pretty sure Voyboy mentioned at one point they were discussing kicking him
Don't you think he'd be kicked by now if that rumor was true. Idk I've never seen QT do anything in a serious tournament game that you could call "trolling" and he never goes AFK.
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On July 19 2012 06:46 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 06:35 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 06:28 De4ngus wrote:On July 19 2012 06:09 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:58 spinesheath wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:
Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically.
In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. In your dreams. You ALWAYS have to keep an eye on all 10 players as support in fights. Your allies can't call everything (and if they did, you'd not be able to understand a damn thing because 4 people would talk at once). In fact any non-support is focusing on certain stuff which hardly ever is their allies, if one of them calls for a Soraka ult that might still be a horrible call. Laning as a support requires loads of knowledge about 2v2 matches and jungle interactions. Much harder to learn that just 1v1 + jungle simply because there's a lot more different setups. If anything, support skill ceiling is higher than any other roles. To say support skill ceiling is *higher* than any other roles is clearly pushing it. At best you can say that support is a very precise role that once mistakes are made it's hard to come back from. On July 19 2012 05:59 JackDino wrote:On July 19 2012 05:57 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:54 Perplex wrote:On July 19 2012 05:45 Sufficiency wrote:On July 19 2012 05:10 Perplex wrote:On July 19 2012 03:44 JackDino wrote:
So locust kicked/left dig.
So apparently pendragon banned someone for 3days because he wanted to random a champion:http://na.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=490333&d=1342634409
http://www.team-dignitas.net/articles/news/League-of-Legends/1836/Team-Dignitas-parts-ways-with-L0CUST/Yep looks like they let him go. that's weird though I never noticed anything wrong with L0CUST in particular.. in fact I thought he was quite consistent. Maybe I just haven't been watching Dig enough Well, I think the support skill ceiling is so low that it's easy to find someone who can play the role satisfactorily. In fact, I am willing to claim that any 1400 Elo player can be a professional support player after intensively training for 3 months. I believe the support player in a pro-team requires a lot of SOFT skills (i.e. people skills) that can support the team both in gameplay and psychologically. In fact, it's a lot harder to perform well as a support in soloQ compared to an organized team. For example if you are Soraka, using your ultimate timely is quite difficult in soloQ as you have to keep a closed eye on all your teammate. In organized teams you can just listen to your teammates to do it. On July 19 2012 05:39 MooMooMugi wrote:
If anything I thought Qtpie would be kicked, not good guy L0CUST. I felt that his Draven in OGN was fantastic. L0cust just kept getting caught. I can't even articulate how wrong this is. Have you ever played with a support over 2k? It's like playing a different game. I don't know how to explain it but support does not by any means have a low skill cap or require "soft" skills exclusively. But it's still much harder to land your Cass's Q while kiting your enemies with E in a chaotic teamfight than clicking Shurelia's and spam Q as Soraka. I am sure EVERYONE agrees with that. I'm sure that everyone also agrees that playing janna in a teamfight is way way harder than playing ryze in a teamfight. What's your point? When you talk about Janna, are you talking about her ultimate? I feel that if you ult incorrectly with Janna, you are probably not picking her into the right composition (considering how bad her early game is). Putting her ultimate aside, the rest of her kit is very simple to use in a teamfight. You shield your carry as often as you can, W + Q to deter bruisers getting onto your carry, kite around with your mobility, and use Locket as a backup. Ryze does have his challenges. Mostly that his range is really not that different from an AD carry and he needs to choose his target smartly. This kind of decision making is at least on-par with deciding when to use Janna ult. janna is simple? her early game is bad? lol you should probably stop. I disagree. Janna's early laning phase is really, really weak. Her strongest strength in lane is to disengage certain jungler ganks, such as Noc's; otherwise, she isn't that great in a 2v2 situation due to all the nerfs on her during the last a few months. If you want strong laning phase, there is Alistar, Blitzcrank and Leona; if you want to be conservative, there is Soraka. Unfortunately Janna doesn't have sustain and it's difficult to play the poke game with Janna against Soraka. Janna's strongest point (beside her ever-so-broken passive) is her teamfight. She can protect her team really, really well. Far more than any other support imo. I really hate to quote this guy, but Elementz will agree with me on what I just said. 2 peels, one of which is point and click with a good range, the other of which is a huge AoE and large range with a long duration; a shield (one of the best in the game), which is one of the best if not the best preemptive support abilities in the game, and a free MS boost makes for a bad laning phase? It generally doesn't matter that she has no sustain outside of her ult when you can negate the first few shots of any exchange and CC the enemy with Q. Landing Q and putting up a shield makes for probably the strongest trading prowess outside of Nunu or Blitz.
The problem is that regardless of how well she uses her shield, it's very hard for Janna to win against a Soraka lane; on the other hand, when a Blitzcrank or Leona forces a trade by landing a Q/E, Janna will automatically lose the trade.
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On July 19 2012 06:46 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 19 2012 06:32 MooMooMugi wrote:On July 19 2012 05:48 HazMat wrote:On July 19 2012 05:39 MooMooMugi wrote:
If anything I thought Qtpie would be kicked, not good guy L0CUST. Why would qt get kicked? He trolls and goes AFK in tourny games sometimes and I'm pretty sure Voyboy mentioned at one point they were discussing kicking him Don't you think he'd be kicked by now if that rumor was true. Idk I've never seen QT do anything in a serious tournament game that you could call "trolling" and he never goes AFK.
I recall an online tourney game where qtpie had shitty internet and he randomly connected and asked shit in all chat did we win yet etc, not sure if he actually intentionally fed that game. That's the only bad thing about qtpie I recall though.
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Lol god I can't land this headbutt->pulverize combo at all. Trying to jungle Ali, but unless I'm facing braindead opponents who don't ward/let me get close enough to pulverize->headbutt, I've gotta get this combo down. But seems so much harder than my friend's description of just "mash it out".
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Don't worry, non-warding opponents happen often enough. 
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On July 19 2012 07:20 sung_moon wrote:
Lol god I can't land this headbutt->pulverize combo at all. Trying to jungle Ali, but unless I'm facing braindead opponents who don't ward/let me get close enough to pulverize->headbutt, I've gotta get this combo down. But seems so much harder than my friend's description of just "mash it out".
To really get down the HeadPul combo you just need good timing, IMMEDIATELY after you start your Headbutt animation(Alistar lowers his heads) you spam QQQQQQQ and voila you did the combo. You have to make sure you're in range for headbutt though or you end up pounding the ground like a territorial cow mother protecting her young.
Having high movement speed via masteries/runes/boots of mobility also helps ALOT
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EPT
