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On July 18 2012 13:13 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 12:50 Feartheguru wrote:On July 18 2012 12:00 Craton wrote:
The last thing Xerath [and the game as a whole] needs is more 5000 range burst. When you can 100-0 someone at high range in one easily executed stun combo (e->ult probably the easiest combo in the entire game, mind you), you don't get to have more damage. I know right, he was already such a popular guy, near instaban status I'd say, carrying a lot of teams to tourny wins they didn't deserve. What could they have been thinking when they chose to buff him. I make a champion that you press one button and it kills the entire enemy team. Everyone finds him boring and few people play him. Despite his unpopularity, it's still broken as hell. Welcome to Philosophy 104: Introduction to Logic. This lesson is known as "Independent Things Are Not Dependent"
You are obviously new to online gaming.
If you make a champion that kills the whole enemy team at the press of one button, lots of people will play him, no matter how boring that might appear to you or me. What WOULD happen is that the game becomes unplayable because the games are full of that guy, or he gets banned every game. If banning is not possible for whatever reasons, the game dies out, because it is no longer fun to play for anyone except whoever gets mr op.
I know that was not your main point, but basing your whole argumentation off wrong assumptions tends to not lead to useful results.
Now, when we have a group of people whos job it is to win at this game (which one can argue is apparently not the case for all lol progamers, but that is a completely different discussion), then those people will take whatever legal means necessary to win. It is their job, after all. And that would include playing "boring" champions. Case in point, Sorakas popularity. I doubt that there is a more boring champion in this game, yet she is still very popular.
Now, you have to also accept the fact that these people still do not know everything about the game, as lol is rather complex, and has a lot of variables in it which interact differently with each other. So, it is absolutely possible that a champion is good, even too good, but is still not played often, because he is only good in a very weird way which simply noone has realized so far, needs a specific strategy which noone has tried so far, or something else.
But these cases are something you probably can't easily detect before someone finds out about them. If you can, you should form a team, and abuse those things until they get nerfed/you gain lots of money by winning tournaments. If a champion does not get played a lot by pro teams, there is probably a reason for that. That reason is most probably NOT that he is boring, but something else. Maybe he is weaker then a similar alternative. Maybe he is very easily countered by something simple. Maybe he just does not fit into the popular teamcompositions, and forming a complete strategy around this champion is not viable for some reason (maybe because something necessary for that strategy again gets countered pretty easily). Or maybe people just did not realize how good he is for some reason, because they were focussing on something else. Be that as it may, if a champion is good, and people know he is good, he will not be underplayed just because he is "boring", especially by people who make money of winning.
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Malphite was underplayed until a month ago, same with Kayle (who everyone thought was crap). Just because pros don't play a champ does not mean it's competitively useless. People didn't even think about playing Mundo till Rincent showed everyone how good he was after the changes. Remember when Cait was one of the most played AD carries in tournaments? It's a game of fads. Players only have so many allotable hours of time to dedicate to a huge champion list and being okay at 20 champs is not as competitively viable as being amazing at 10 because of ban limits.
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On July 18 2012 14:26 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Malphite was underplayed until a month ago, same with Kayle (who everyone thought was crap). Just because pros don't play a champ does not mean it's competitively useless. People didn't even think about playing Mundo till Rincent showed everyone how good he was after the changes. Remember when Cait was one of the most played AD carries in tournaments? It's a game of fads. Players only have so many allotable hours of time to dedicate to a huge champion list and being okay at 20 champs is not as competitively viable as being amazing at 10 because of ban limits.
According to Riot, Malphite was good before he became FotM. It just took a while for the pros to realize this. Then all of a sudden he did become FotM.
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What's the general consensus on masteries for mid? I feel like 21 util is the best choice on most, though obv it depends on the type of caster.
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On July 18 2012 14:01 BaconSoup wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 12:54 Ryuu314 wrote:On July 18 2012 12:50 Feartheguru wrote:On July 18 2012 12:00 Craton wrote:
The last thing Xerath [and the game as a whole] needs is more 5000 range burst. When you can 100-0 someone at high range in one easily executed stun combo (e->ult probably the easiest combo in the entire game, mind you), you don't get to have more damage. I know right, he was already such a popular guy, near instaban status I'd say, carrying a lot of teams to tourny wins they didn't deserve. What could they have been thinking when they chose to buff him. To be fair, no one uses him in tourneys not because he's weak, but because he's boring as fuck to play so no one practices him. Not only that, but a recent patch broke his R casting and almost doubled the amount of time it takes to cast and hit all 3 ult charges. They are fixing it :-D linkyI find him very fun to play, nothing quite like hitting a 3-pointer. As to whether he is viable or not, I plan to play him more once the fix has been implemented and find out.
I think Xerath is fine, it's just that here are better champions to play if you want a poke comp:
Kog'Maw, Ziggs, Lux, AP Ezreal
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United States47024 Posts
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21 offense with sunder armor and hybrid pen marks for true dmg pokes!
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This looks like an awesome guide/informative video I just wish I understood his rune and mastery explanations. Could you enlighten?
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United States47024 Posts
On July 18 2012 14:51 Parnage wrote:This looks like an awesome guide/informative video I just wish I understood his rune and mastery explanations. Could you enlighten?
Summary of Runes/Masteries section:
MPen marks, HP@18 seals, AP@18 glyphs, AP quints - uses the scaling HP/AP glyphs for stronger midgame, less laning-focused runepage
MPen marks, Flat Mp5 OR Mp5@18 seals, AP@18 glyphs OR flat MR glyphs, MS quints - Runepage focused more toward ganking power. The MR glyphs can be leveraged against stronger enemy AP laners, and the MS is critical in ganking.
21/0/9 - Aimed to maximize burst damage on ganks in the level 6-10 range, sacrifices movespeed, and other gains from Utility tree
9/0/21 - Picks up later tier utility talents at the cost of damage. Smoother to use in cases where you don't get as much damage.
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On July 18 2012 14:30 HazMat wrote:
What's the general consensus on masteries for mid? I feel like 21 util is the best choice on most, though obv it depends on the type of caster.
I usually go offense, since you need the crit damage mastery to go with your reds.
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Btw Yorick was picked in almost all game of the Elite of Europe tournament. He finally will be nerfed with a little luck :D
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On July 18 2012 13:13 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 12:50 Feartheguru wrote:On July 18 2012 12:00 Craton wrote:
The last thing Xerath [and the game as a whole] needs is more 5000 range burst. When you can 100-0 someone at high range in one easily executed stun combo (e->ult probably the easiest combo in the entire game, mind you), you don't get to have more damage. I know right, he was already such a popular guy, near instaban status I'd say, carrying a lot of teams to tourny wins they didn't deserve. What could they have been thinking when they chose to buff him. I make a champion that you press one button and it kills the entire enemy team. Everyone finds him boring and few people play him. Despite his unpopularity, it's still broken as hell. Welcome to Philosophy 104: Introduction to Logic. This lesson is known as "Independent Things Are Not Dependent"
I would forgo pointing out the stupidity in this post, since everyone else already sees it. But I'll spare the time, in what world does strength not factor into popularity lol.
Welcome to Forum Posting 101: Introduction to Logic. It is helpful to have some.
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On July 18 2012 15:17 Feartheguru wrote:
NUKED
heh. i was just gonna respond to that :[
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United States47024 Posts
On July 18 2012 15:17 Feartheguru wrote:
Name 1 champion other than Cass than fits this without a buff.
Champions that ended up being "OP" without getting buffs:
Irelia - apart from the range buff, at-release Irelia was VASTLY stronger than many future iterations--she received a LOT of nerfs and was still strong. Yet at release everyone said she was UP.
Twisted Fate - Get nerfed. Still OP. Still underplayed outside of China.
Ezreal - No changes for about 15-20 patches. Go from being "the worst AD carry in the game" to a fairly regular AD pick.
Veigar - moves through periods of getting played and not, despite no balance changes
Maokai - got some base stat buffs a few patches in, but still took ages after that for people to realize that jungle Maokai was actually really good
There are more, but those are just off the top of my head.
On July 18 2012 15:25 Ryuu314 wrote:heh. i was just gonna respond to that :[
lol oops
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On July 18 2012 14:28 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 14:26 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Malphite was underplayed until a month ago, same with Kayle (who everyone thought was crap). Just because pros don't play a champ does not mean it's competitively useless. People didn't even think about playing Mundo till Rincent showed everyone how good he was after the changes. Remember when Cait was one of the most played AD carries in tournaments? It's a game of fads. Players only have so many allotable hours of time to dedicate to a huge champion list and being okay at 20 champs is not as competitively viable as being amazing at 10 because of ban limits. According to Riot, Malphite was good before he became FotM. It just took a while for the pros to realize this. Then all of a sudden he did become FotM.
his ult got fixed in one of the recent patches, same goes for rumble i read on reddit his flamethrower does proper dmg vs moving targets now and look suddenly everybody started playing him
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On July 18 2012 15:33 kongoline wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 14:28 Sufficiency wrote:On July 18 2012 14:26 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Malphite was underplayed until a month ago, same with Kayle (who everyone thought was crap). Just because pros don't play a champ does not mean it's competitively useless. People didn't even think about playing Mundo till Rincent showed everyone how good he was after the changes. Remember when Cait was one of the most played AD carries in tournaments? It's a game of fads. Players only have so many allotable hours of time to dedicate to a huge champion list and being okay at 20 champs is not as competitively viable as being amazing at 10 because of ban limits. According to Riot, Malphite was good before he became FotM. It just took a while for the pros to realize this. Then all of a sudden he did become FotM. his ult got fixed in one of the recent patches, same goes for rumble i read on reddit his flamethrower does proper dmg vs moving targets now and look suddenly everybody started playing him
rumble got a quality of life fix that was pretty huge. it increased his total Q damage by quite a bit since you were no longer missing Q ticks when moving around. malphite's bug was honestly very minor. sure your ulti would fuck up now and then, but it wasn't super common, only happened in specific situations; unless I'm very mistaken, Malphite's ulti bug was just it being stopped by stuff like Anivia wall. Half of why malphite is a monster is because of the near 100% uptime (with enough cdr) on your ridiculous 50% attack speed slow.
Speaking of which, Malphite can be added to the list of underplayed champions that got super popular w/out buffs imo. Anivia can also be added to that list since the last meaningful buff she received was Nocturne patch and she was definitely underplayed until Froggen showed everyone what's up.
I should maintain a list lol
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Malphite ult was inconsistent as hell, you had to directly ult someone from max range otherwise you just fizz out
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the koreanz always played malphite.
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EPT
