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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On July 18 2012 06:41 arb wrote: they're stopped and the spell is wasted it hink? i know it works that way with stuns Yep, but the stuns stop any channeled spell, and I know once you're rooted you can't flash/arcane shift/etc. but I wasn't sure about if you cast during their spell. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 18 2012 04:12 wei2coolman wrote: Regi's TF is way better, Gp10 items boots->philo->hog->kage's->dcap->lich-> etc etc. I like going the 3 gp10, into sheen+dcap, then dfg, then lichbane. If we're just copying pro TF build's, there's pretty much no point in copying TF builds from non-Chinese AP players. Seeing as, you know, Chinese teams actually play the hero. On July 18 2012 04:39 wei2coolman wrote: not really, TF with 60 AP clears just as fast as TF with 140 AP, at the same point in time. Red card + Q, should clear everything (except cannon minion) lol no the difference between 60 AP and 140 AP is very noticeable. Specifically, if you don't hit AP breakpoints at certain times, ranged creeps live with like 5-10 health after a Wild Cards. Your AP growth has to match/exceed minion defensive stat growth. Buying 1700 gold worth of AP-less items (HoG+Philo) will put you behind where your AP needs to be, particularly in the levels of 6-10 where your ganks are most critical. EDIT: Some brief math to show you why that extra 80 AP is important: Wild Cards rank 5 has 260 base damage and 0.65 AP ratio. With 60 AP, that's 299 damage. With 140 AP, that's 351 damage. Ranged minions start with 280 HP and gain 15 HP every 3 minutes. At 10-11 minutes (reasonable time-frame for this comparison), that's 325 HP. The NLR build can insta-clear ranged creeps in a single Wild Cards, while the gp10 build with 60 AP can't. In fact, the gp10 build wouldn't even be able to instaclear ranged creeps at 8-9 minutes, because 299 damage Wild Cards still aren't enough to instaclear 310 damage minions. This is a very noticeable difference. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On July 18 2012 06:57 TheYango wrote: lol no the difference between 60 AP and 140 AP is very noticeable. Specifically, if you don't hit AP breakpoints at certain times, ranged creeps live with like 5-10 health after a Wild Cards. ^ made my life hell when I tried him on free week T_T And I just played a Talon game where the same thing happened with Rake. Need to put an AD quint in there. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
You need 100 AP at 9 minutes to instaclear, and 124 at 12 minutes. 60-70 as you purport, is provably not capable of insta-clearing. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On July 17 2012 17:36 Lmui wrote: I'll figure out how the stupid proc works against bots and get back with results once i'm done. Beyond that, I'm also going to math out sheen + needlessly large with the proc results I get as well. You do lose the wave clearing capability if you rush straight lichbane that a needlessly large grants you but it might be worth it. Edit: alright, lichbane's proc cd is when you use it, not on activation, lich bane does slightly less than dcap in a gank. Lichbane actually is supposed to have an internal timer based on game time and not on what you do. Therefore it's possible to get two procs off even if you spam skills and autos in rapid succession eg. gold card, wild cards. This was something discovered in one of the GD's. I dislike GP10s. Feel weak. Die a lot in my low level games where people get 15 kills for 200 farm. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 18 2012 07:40 obesechicken13 wrote: Lichbane actually is supposed to have an internal timer based on game time and not on what you do. Therefore it's possible to get two procs off even if you spam skills and autos in rapid succession eg. gold card, wild cards. This was something discovered in one of the GD's. I seem to remember that discussion being on Tear charges. Was it later shown to apply to Sheen/Lich/Tri's ICDs as well? | ||
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Frolossus
United States4779 Posts
On July 18 2012 07:41 TheYango wrote: I seem to remember that discussion being on Tear charges. Was it later shown to apply to Sheen/Lich/Tri's ICDs as well? it should apply to both tf definitely can't proc 2 lich banes within a 3 second period | ||
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Thermia
United States866 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:08 Frolossus wrote: it should apply to both tf definitely can't proc 2 lich banes within a 3 second period why shouldnt he be able to? it has a 2 second cd | ||
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Lmui
Canada6213 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On July 18 2012 05:25 iGrok wrote: Actually he's trading 65 AP for 90 HP and 18HP/5 18HP/5 over 10 Minutes (~ time from philo to deathcap) is 2160 healing. Sure, some of that will be wasted, but thats quite a bit of sustain, especially combined with blue card. The hp regen happens so slowly though so that most of it is wasted. If you're sitting at 50% HP you can't just wait by your tower to regen off your philo, you need to b otherwise you miss gold and exp. If you go in at 50% to farm you get bursted down by most mids. It sounds good, but I like health pots midgame to deal with residual damage more. On July 18 2012 03:33 spinesheath wrote: As long as you have a ranged AD, the whole plan for lategame is to raise the ADs stats as much as possible because of multiplicative scaling. Add some CDR and defense on your utility champs to protect the AD (and have a burst caster to burst the enemy burst caster or ranged AD lol). Zeke's does all that pretty damn nicely. I've been getting zekes on kayle out of the jungle/top recently when I have a few autoattackers on my team. Like if I see a jayce top and an AD bot, then I'll be sure to get zekes to help all three of us out, but I don't get nearly as many kills since the item doesn't provide much dps for myself. Just as multiplicative scaling can make an AD carry into a cannon of doom though, it doesn't really help them become any less of a glass cannon. If your AD carry goes down and you have zeke's then you won't be doing much damage. But if you go IE instead, then you'll be doing more damage but not improving your team's damage overall by as much. I just like the idea of not putting all my eggs in one basket (hoping my AD carry is an amazing late gamer) so I don't like zeke's on supports because none of the good ones autoattack. | ||
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IMoperator
4476 Posts
On July 18 2012 07:39 ticklishmusic wrote: Ezreal free this week. No way to tell if ez is good anymore. I have to deal with people instalocking ezreal in blind pick now  | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On July 18 2012 06:43 koreasilver wrote: The real kink I find in that logic is that doing the dring(s) -> rabadon on TF allows you to clear a wave in literally one second which gives you a lot of lane control against the opponent mid player and consequently allows you to start walking up or down to the other lanes much earlier while also making the movements of the opposing mid player a bit more torturous. There are very few champions that can clear minion waves as fast as a TF with rabadon. On top of this, you have so much more presence in teamfights with rabadon. The whole logic of gank opportunity with lich bane or gp5 doesn't really make much sense to me at all when you can just simply clear the wave in one second, walk down earlier and ult, then do a lot more damage in the ensuing fight. Instaclearing wave also denies so much vision that they have to be paranoid all the time when ult is up even if you're just standing there. Also lots easier to take wraiths (yours or theirs) making the gold difference less noticable. | ||
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arb
Noobville17921 Posts
On July 18 2012 09:08 Alaric wrote: When I use AS, and could help some HP, I sometimes get Zeke's if the flow goes with it. Mostly on Mundo, sometimes on Irelia, but I don't think I'd consider it on Jax the way I play him. Could try on Olaf as part of a cdr build I guess. Think it'd be okay on Olaf, I get it on mundo as a later item sometimes(gives alot of stats he needs) I'll build it after Shurelias on support if we have 3 people that can benefit from it, otherwise ill get FH or something | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:33 IMoperator wrote: I have to deal with people instalocking ezreal in blind pick now /hue thats me... lock ez, build manamune, feed 6 kills in lane, get two triple kills | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On July 18 2012 08:33 IMoperator wrote: I have to deal with people instalocking ezreal in blind pick now It's not like it was already the most played champion by a very large margin... | ||
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Qualm
721 Posts
On July 18 2012 07:16 Alaric wrote: ^ made my life hell when I tried him on free week T_T And I just played a Talon game where the same thing happened with Rake. Need to put an AD quint in there. This is the most frustrating thing ever when playing Xerath. Unless you get a bunch of kills and get NLR really early, until you get deathcap, the ranged creeps will survive with like barely any HP regardless of what runes you get. Just increasing his Q scaling by .1 to fix that would honestly make him a lot more viable, just because of that.. | ||
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