EPT1 - for the original idea that getting a razor is good 1v2 so u can last hit is a absolute joke
2 - the fact people took him seriously + responded to him is also a joke LOL
1v2 Laning - Page 4
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oscar62
Canada417 Posts
1 - for the original idea that getting a razor is good 1v2 so u can last hit is a absolute joke 2 - the fact people took him seriously + responded to him is also a joke LOL | ||
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SaetZero
United States855 Posts
Mainly I did this with like.... Morg, Lux, Swain, Maokai if I was expecting to be in top lane, Kayle, basically anyone with a stronger aoe ability and some decent cc in case a good gank opportunity comes up. This isnt as great an idea in higher levels of play, or against certain heroes, but if your not 30 yet, its an idea and it will help you learn how to play safe in a lane that you would probably lose. (Main reason I dont get fucking raped Lux vs Kass and some other shitty lanes.) | ||
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kyriores
Greece178 Posts
So, what you want is a champion that has some good aoe and great ability to gain distance from your enemy.I can't really suggest champions for top, but since I play mid most of the time, the first champion that comes to mind is Gragas.. Beastly farmer after the first buy, able to 1-shot aoe minions with his q after some point and he can easily escape all danger with his E and R. I'm sure there are many champions that can achieve the goal I mentioned above. And don't worry so much about unranked.. You probably just lost those games because your mid, jungler and bot weren't doing their job properly.. When you get ranked and play a couple of games (hopefully winning most) you will laugh if you encounter a team without a jungler. | ||
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LAN-f34r
New Zealand2099 Posts
On June 14 2012 19:07 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Oh yeah, and champs I would pick knowing I was going in 1v2: Cho Galio Yorick Singed Sion Morgana Vlad GP Ezreal Heimer Maokai A lot of them you have to sacrifice CS early but if they push you to tower you should get almost all of them regardless. Riot has made it quite hard to 1v2, though, and you basically want TP every time. What is your logic behind Singed? I'm not very good at singed, but from what I know it seems like he wouldn't get anything until he gets much tanker (hence able to take some harass while running around smoking the creep wave). He has no ranged damage abilities to sneak in a few CS, and he doesn't have any inbuilt sustain. Am I missing something here? | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On June 14 2012 02:32 JuneCloud wrote: It doesn't matter what champion you play at all. If your an ad then start cloth+5pots. Build the cloth into madreds razor so you can last hit under the turret. Then get boots and turn the razor into wriggles lantern. Don't be afraid to call your jungler in when you need him. Constantly buy potions until lvl 8. Your team should win outright at this point because your income + your junglers income will far out weigh the duo lane. Highlighted what I felt was a really important part that people often miss/mess up with 1v2 laning. Always grab a couple extra pots on every back, even if it means you're not finishing an item. Figure, if it was a 1v1 lane, you'd budget for a ward with every B. in 1v2 instead spend that same budget on 2 pots. Not sure how I feel about wriggle - If I was playing a champ that had to decide between wriggles & 2 dorans, I'd probably just get the 2 dorans so I can more cheaply last hit under turret (without the complicated hit-towerattack-hit stuff) Wriggle would come too late compared to in a 1v1 lane anyway. | ||
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JuneCloud
United States41 Posts
On June 14 2012 18:51 ZERG_RUSSIAN wrote: Most of us are good enough to get about 80% under tower through harass depending on champion. If anything madred's makes it harder because you can't control procs. Just get a bit better and you'll be able to do it, too. If I could only get 80% of last hits under a turret in a 1v1 I wouldn't go on forums and give people advice. Although anyone of any skill level can give good advice, I personally wouldn't feel confortable doing it. Its sad that I have to explain this again but in a 1v2 situation you will be completely starved for cs as the OP has stated. If you were (insert top lane pro name here) you wouldn't get nearly the amount of cs in a 1v2 lane as you would 1v1. Especially against two hard damage dealing champs. If your fighting 1v2 against a support champ it is usually not as bad, unless that support is a good sona in which case gl with keeping your health high. The point is that it is OK that you will be behind in cs as you will still be winning your lane. Usually both enemy champs will be harassing you under the tower, even if it means they take a tower hit or two because they will feel the need to prevent you from getting cs. Often you are only allowed to get 2-5 minions hits off per wave. Wriggles allows to get more cs within the limits of the few hits your opponents allow you to get off. Don't brag about your 1v0 last hitting skills in a thread about going 1v2 @Wetty, your logic is so bad that there isn't too much to say though I will point out that players get a banshees veil specifically for the magic resist and the bubble adds to prevent ap dps by blocking a spell. Banshee veil is actually a great item to prove my point due to the fact that you pay a bit of money for extra mana, even though many high levels players get banshee veil on characters that don't use mana (this used to be much more common than it is now). The actual advice you give is pretty solid if not a bit generic. About the original topic, laning 1v2 is hard, but there's 1 trick to it that a lot of people miss. You have to remain patient. I know it's tempting to try to step out from the safety of your tower and get a bit of cs, but if you do and die, then your situation just gets worse. Take teleport, it will really help. Biggest thing is not to get caught. Great advice, you don't need to go for every bit of cs. Glad someone realizes that. If you can get a dialogue going with your jungler and explain to him that you might be going 1v2 and may need him to hold your lane, then you can trade teleport for a summoner that will give you more power in lane. Many people have recommended good ap champs to play. These champs work due to the fact that they are pushers, or champs who can quickly clear a minion wave. Most of these champs have strong AoE. Quickly clearing a minion wave gives you more cs and helps prevent dives. A champion with an escape is especially helpful. Gragas is a good example. Singed is kind of an oddball example of this. His poison is good at clearing minion waves but, at low levels, will take a bit of skill to get the last hits. His strong suit is the fact that he is extremely hard to dive due to his skill set and natural tankiness. | ||
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JuneCloud
United States41 Posts
On June 14 2012 22:25 sylverfyre wrote: Highlighted what I felt was a really important part that people often miss/mess up with 1v2 laning. Always grab a couple extra pots on every back, even if it means you're not finishing an item. Figure, if it was a 1v1 lane, you'd budget for a ward with every B. in 1v2 instead spend that same budget on 2 pots. Not sure how I feel about wriggle - If I was playing a champ that had to decide between wriggles & 2 dorans, I'd probably just get the 2 dorans so I can more cheaply last hit under turret (without the complicated hit-towerattack-hit stuff) Wriggle would come too late compared to in a 1v1 lane anyway. While you may have a point I think getting dorans might be the second best option. As in my post, you get the razor quite early in this strategy and use this before the wriggles. When you start cloth armor the razor is actually cheaper than 2 dorans. You can't start dorans because you need the health pots (I realize you of all people know this but I think it needs to be pointed out). Since potions are so effective at low levels, you don't immediatly need to get the vamp sceptar. Dorans also gives you much less sustain unless you plan on buying 3. Buying 3 wastes money because you have to sell it soon after. Once the laning phase ends you start getting more income and the third dorans will be sold soon after. Ofcourse, 3 dorans is viable 1v1 when you will have a standard income, but this is a less than standard income situation. I'm going to check later to see how much attack damage it takes to kill a caster minion that has only taken one turret shot and no other damage. It might not be viable without attack damage runes, and full rune sets are rare on players below 30 playing blind pick as most players prioritize champions. So many many champions in this game now and days. | ||
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JokerSan
United States306 Posts
Does that not happen in practice? | ||
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Simberto
Germany11581 Posts
To be quite honest, i am mostly theorycrafting here. But in my opinion,Urgot should be very good. He is pretty tanky, can farm/harass from range, and once he hits 6 can keep people under his turret for prolonged periods of time if they come too close. Galio sounds good, too. If they dive you, and you ult them under the tower, they are probably both dead. | ||
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onihunter
United States515 Posts
On June 15 2012 03:08 JokerSan wrote: I thought we concluded that with perfect play, the 1 will always lose since the 2 will just camp in front of the minion wave and never cs. Eventually the 2 will be level 18 and the 1 will be level 1. Does that not happen in practice? Eventually the 1 can just get some exp and last hits under/near tower | ||
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Sqq
Norway2023 Posts
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JuneCloud
United States41 Posts
On June 15 2012 03:08 JokerSan wrote: I thought we concluded that with perfect play, the 1 will always lose since the 2 will just camp in front of the minion wave and never cs. Eventually the 2 will be level 18 and the 1 will be level 1. Does that not happen in practice? If the enemy last hits at all the lane will push eventually, though very slowly. I've never seen a game where two people managed to completely ignore cs. Though, if they did, imagine how useless two people with 0 cs will be to the enemy team, while your team only has one. Exprience can be made up for rather quickly actually. You may have noticed a long time dc catch up quickly in levels to the rest of the group. Also, the enemy positioning themselves this way makes them extremely open to ganks. Don't be afraid to tell the mid to come up with the jungler for a 3v2. Usually you can still get close enough to some minion deaths to get exp so the disparity won't be a lvl 18 to lvl 1 difference. There might also be opportunities for the laner to kill some jungle camps even before the laning phase ends. | ||
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sylverfyre
United States8298 Posts
On June 15 2012 03:33 JuneCloud wrote: If the enemy last hits at all the lane will push eventually, though very slowly. I've never seen a game where two people managed to completely ignore cs. Though, if they did, imagine how useless two people with 0 cs will be to the enemy team, while your team only has one. Exprience can be made up for rather quickly actually. You may have noticed a long time dc catch up quickly in levels to the rest of the group. Also, the enemy positioning themselves this way makes them extremely open to ganks. Don't be afraid to tell the mid to come up with the jungler for a 3v2. Usually you can still get close enough to some minion deaths to get exp so the disparity won't be a lvl 18 to lvl 1 difference. There might also be opportunities for the laner to kill some jungle camps even before the laning phase ends. Also if they ever get autoattacked by minions because they got in the way of your next wave coming up, they will eventually push the lane. Also the lane will eventually push in one direction or another just from sheer randomness because the ranged minions on one side or the other might decide to focus fire while the opposing side splits fire. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On June 15 2012 03:33 JuneCloud wrote: If the enemy last hits at all the lane will push eventually, though very slowly. I've never seen a game where two people managed to completely ignore cs. Though, if they did, imagine how useless two people with 0 cs will be to the enemy team, while your team only has one. Exprience can be made up for rather quickly actually. You may have noticed a long time dc catch up quickly in levels to the rest of the group. Also, the enemy positioning themselves this way makes them extremely open to ganks. Don't be afraid to tell the mid to come up with the jungler for a 3v2. Usually you can still get close enough to some minion deaths to get exp so the disparity won't be a lvl 18 to lvl 1 difference. There might also be opportunities for the laner to kill some jungle camps even before the laning phase ends. There are techniques the duo can use to keep a lane in the middle or pushing toward them indefinitely. If the duo intercept your minions they will group up, causing them to focus fire down the duo's minions when they clash. Combined with some intermediate last-hitting techniques to avoid pushing (e.g. using bushes to instantly deaggro, last-hitting minions that are about to die to incoming projectiles) they can create a lane imbalance in their favor. Once they reach 2-3 minions left over between waves it becomes utterly trivial for them to hold the wave outside of their own tower. It's not something you're likely to see in the Elo range where duo tops are common, but these techniques exist. | ||
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brolaf
291 Posts
On June 14 2012 03:25 aike wrote: I hate to agree with Shiv cuz he seems to be kind of a dick, but he's right. It's really easy to last hit under a tower you just need to know when to attack. It's definitely no where near impossible to do. As long as you are playing safely you should be out leveling the 2 of them and getting more gold per minute, and your jungler should be outleveling and getting more gold than them. So when they push your lane you just play safe, do a bit of harassing, have the jungler come up for ganks and you should win the lane. The whole point of jungling is to get more exp and gold per minute than dual laning top. Everybody recommending champs that are good at 1 v 2ing lanes is stupid, because you don't know if you are 1v2ing a lane until after the game starts lol. So just play whoever you are comfortable with and use wards and communicate with your team so that you can get good ganks. Its not that simple. Farming under tower can be very dangerous against ranged champs who synchronise their harass with tower attacks so they can get free hits in. later in game dragon control with jungler isimporant, but during laning phase a jungler who just gets the buffs and camps toplane(hotshotgg style)effectively 2v1ing it can give a huge advantage. | ||
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JokerSan
United States306 Posts
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On June 13 2012 18:12 Arisen wrote: I'm starting this thread to inquire about how to lane 1v2. I'm still doing unranked matches to get to 30 so I can start ranked play, and often someone will jungle on my team, and not on the opposing team. I usually volunteer so no one feeds top, but Most of the time, I end up sitting under a turret for 15 mins barley getting any CS. Sometimes I even get really troll top lanes like darius/singed running exhaust and ignite so you can't really get any CS at all. I think in theory the jungler should gank your lane a lot of they're going to be really pushed, but I find a lot of the times a gank in a 1v2 lane doesn't even force summoner spells. Typically when I go top I play riven or cho. I find it's a little easier with cho because you can just w to get a little harass/CS, but it's still pretty bad, and the enemy team gets a good bit of chip off your tower. Is there anything to do about 1v2 lanes? Are there certain heroes who do well in these scenarios, or are you just forced to sit under a tower for half the game? You're supposed to sit under tower for 15 minutes. Get some cs, but only what you can. Learn to last hit under tower. If you get all the experience and half the gold of your opponents then your team is winning. Your jungler is getting experience their team isn't. Junglers shouldn't gank top because there's no advantage. You're fighting a 2v2 where it's more likely that your team has lower life. Junglers should help elsewhere and get dragon. If you do take damage, then your jungler should come hold your tower for you so you can go back and buy or heal. Teleport is really helpful. Why would you play melee champions top in a 1v2 lane? You know that in a 1v2 lane you'll not be able to do much. One champion that does well in 1v2 lanes is kayle since she has a very mana efficient ranged AoE clear. Kayle doesn't do very well against anyone that can outrange her like urgot, or caitlyn though, and the tower chipping problem is still possible. I've played kayle vs cait nunu bot because of some really bad ally in the past who refused to communicate and fed top. Perhaps that was one of my placement ranked games. They took my tower but didn't get any kills. Every time I went after nunu, he'd snowball me and take a tower shot and heal back with consume. Every time I went after cait, she'd net me and auto with her superior range. A lot of people also recommend mordekaiser to quickly clear creep waves in 1v2 lanes. I've done fine as morgana in the past. Just about any ranged champ can do well against 2 melees with no way to close the gap. In the end 2v1 lanes can lead to lane freezing junglers not helping super long ranged/sustainy duo that can chip your tower quickly and shrug off your damage towards them. There are champions that can do well at mitigating these effects, and that do well against any combo of enemies. But in the end LoL is a team game. You're not expected to win a 1v2 lane, getting kills as you please, just as you're not expected to win post lvl4 1v3 lanes or post lvl6 1v5 lanes. If you don't feed and the rest of your team can't push their huge advantage then there's nothing you can do. Good duo's are uncommon, but do exist. | ||
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Craton
United States17254 Posts
On June 15 2012 02:45 JuneCloud wrote: @Wetty, your logic is so bad that there isn't too much to say though I will point out that players get a banshees veil specifically for the magic resist and the bubble adds to prevent ap dps by blocking a spell. Banshee veil is actually a great item to prove my point due to the fact that you pay a bit of money for extra mana, even though many high levels players get banshee veil on characters that don't use mana (this used to be much more common than it is now). The actual advice you give is pretty solid if not a bit generic. Banshee is rarely gotten by champs other than initiators. It basically lets you charge a team and prevent one CC from stopping you from getting into position. On a carry it's generally useless because it will get popped when you don't want it and CC is much more deadly, which is why QSS is gotten so much more frequently. I don't think anyone ever gets Banshee's on non-mana champions since 6 months to a year ago. Banshee's certainly won't help a 1v2 situation, either. All you really do is start really defensively (e.g. cloth 5) and try to last hit as best you can without taking much poke damage. When the lane pushes, try to keep the lane in front of tower as long as possible, but if it pushes into tower make sure you actually get the last hits if you're going to put yourself up for poke. There's never a moment where you should just try to 1v2 them when everyone is healthy. You either get them to eat your own poke or CC them under tower to get them low first, or you wait for a gank to happen. If you try to just outright 1v2 them you're going to die. It's debatable what champs are "best" at 1v2, but the better ones tend to be tanky and/or sustainy while also having ranged abilities (Cho, Yorick, etc.). It lets you soak the poke you should be taking while still getting some CS/exp At low levels, all you should worry about is farming as best you can and avoiding free damage. Do not fight them 1v2. Period. | ||
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MindBreaker
United States574 Posts
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JuneCloud
United States41 Posts
On June 15 2012 14:19 MindBreaker wrote: Hey JuneCloud I don't know who you are but you seem like a rather pompous guy. 80% cs under tower is pretty good while getting harassed. You said that people who can only do that shouldn't try to give advice? After looking at all the information you have given I'm pretty sure your one of the people who shouldn't be giving advice. Wriggle and madreds procs are terrible for tower cs. There are so many better things to get if your I'n a 1v2. I like how you didn't quote my post due to the fact that quoting it would immediatly show that I actually said literally the opposite of that. Sorry if I seem pompous, but i've been rather aggressive since one poster decided to shit up the thread with flawed logic (assumming that in a 1v2 situation that the 2 enemies will allow you to constantly auto attack minions) and posting memes. Wriggles is less than ideal in a situation where you are allowed to freely move around and hit each minion multiple times. This isn't that situation. If there are so many better things to get if your in a 1v2, then by all means please post your ideas instead of being vague and useless. Its rather pompous to tell someone that they shouldn't be giving advice I would start by editing your post so that you actually contribute something. So far all you have contributed to this thread is being an ass. On June 15 2012 04:04 Seuss wrote: There are techniques the duo can use to keep a lane in the middle or pushing toward them indefinitely. If the duo intercept your minions they will group up, causing them to focus fire down the duo's minions when they clash. Combined with some intermediate last-hitting techniques to avoid pushing (e.g. using bushes to instantly deaggro, last-hitting minions that are about to die to incoming projectiles) they can create a lane imbalance in their favor. Once they reach 2-3 minions left over between waves it becomes utterly trivial for them to hold the wave outside of their own tower. It's not something you're likely to see in the Elo range where duo tops are common, but these techniques exist. Thats some craziness I've never even heard of. Sounds like some people have going 2v1 down to a science. If they are that serious they probably deserve to win the game honestly. I'm sure a pro player would figure out some way to counter. Then again, maybe we will be seeing this strategy in a tournament one day. I think the commentary would be hilarious. | ||
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