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On July 06 2012 00:37 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 09:56 PrinceXizor wrote:
Eh i only 1v1'd him because he caught me inbetween dota 2 matches(watching not playing) while i was sitting in LoL. I still don't think it proves a damn thing, except that he definitely underestimated the trading mid wave issue and that i shouldn't have tried the trade to wukong outside of the creep waves like i did twice. and that he was BM in game.
EDIT: I'd like to see two top laners try it instead of a support player playing vs a jungler. fine, I'll use your spec and play vs. Shake. I'm a better top laner than he is anyway. Tell me your spec and we'll see what happens with Eve vs. Lee Sin.
"You didn't do it right" incoming.
I promise
On July 06 2012 00:21 Slusher wrote:
[...]
@Kenji
I don't know how you carry on any support not named LuLu...
Janna, Ali and Blitz can all win teamfights with good play. So they can all "carry".
You just won't get any pentas, and you can't 1v5, so I'm sure there's some angry nerd out there that'll be all like "you don't know what carrying means", but w/e
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On July 06 2012 00:37 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 09:56 PrinceXizor wrote:
Eh i only 1v1'd him because he caught me inbetween dota 2 matches(watching not playing) while i was sitting in LoL. I still don't think it proves a damn thing, except that he definitely underestimated the trading mid wave issue and that i shouldn't have tried the trade to wukong outside of the creep waves like i did twice. and that he was BM in game.
EDIT: I'd like to see two top laners try it instead of a support player playing vs a jungler. fine, I'll use your spec and play vs. Shake. I'm a better top laner than he is anyway. Tell me your spec and we'll see what happens with Eve vs. Lee Sin.
he posted it like 15 pages ago. here it is:
+ Show Spoiler +On July 04 2012 20:04 PrinceXizor wrote:
Evelynn Top going tanky:
6 AD marks 3 AD quints
3 Armor Marks
9 Armor Seal
6 Armor Glyph
3 Mres/lvl Glyph
vs physical damage tops
25 and 5 in offense in defense provides:
3 Damage
+10 damage to turrets
Exhaust Mastery (-10 armor + Mres)
3 armor
3 Mres
3hp/5
12 Hp/lvl
30 HP
-2 damage taken
-2 minion damage taken
-1.5% damage taken
-3% Aoe damage taken
3% bonus hp and 10% cc reduction
Doran's Shield start
let us know how it goes
And you can definitely carry with supports. I don't main support but I've definitely have had games where I honestly feel like I carried my team as a support. It's usually with the more aggressive supports like Blitz, but you can do it. Carrying as a support is much much much harder and a lot more subtle, but it can definitely be done as long as your AD carry can last hit competently.
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On July 06 2012 00:47 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 00:37 Mogwai wrote:On July 05 2012 09:56 PrinceXizor wrote:
Eh i only 1v1'd him because he caught me inbetween dota 2 matches(watching not playing) while i was sitting in LoL. I still don't think it proves a damn thing, except that he definitely underestimated the trading mid wave issue and that i shouldn't have tried the trade to wukong outside of the creep waves like i did twice. and that he was BM in game.
EDIT: I'd like to see two top laners try it instead of a support player playing vs a jungler. fine, I'll use your spec and play vs. Shake. I'm a better top laner than he is anyway. Tell me your spec and we'll see what happens with Eve vs. Lee Sin. he posted it like 15 pages ago. here it is: + Show Spoiler +On July 04 2012 20:04 PrinceXizor wrote:
Evelynn Top going tanky:
6 AD marks 3 AD quints
3 Armor Marks
9 Armor Seal
6 Armor Glyph
3 Mres/lvl Glyph
vs physical damage tops
25 and 5 in offense in defense provides:
3 Damage
+10 damage to turrets
Exhaust Mastery (-10 armor + Mres)
3 armor
3 Mres
3hp/5
12 Hp/lvl
30 HP
-2 damage taken
-2 minion damage taken
-1.5% damage taken
-3% Aoe damage taken
3% bonus hp and 10% cc reduction
Doran's Shield start
let us know how it goes And you can definitely carry with supports. I don't main support but I've definitely have had games where I honestly feel like I carried my team as a support. It's usually with the more aggressive supports like Blitz, but you can do it. Carrying as a support is much much much harder and a lot more subtle, but it can definitely be done as long as your AD carry can last hit competently.
I seriously doubt Eve can win. She has no sustain in lane...
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On July 06 2012 00:51 Sufficiency wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 00:47 Ryuu314 wrote:On July 06 2012 00:37 Mogwai wrote:On July 05 2012 09:56 PrinceXizor wrote:
Eh i only 1v1'd him because he caught me inbetween dota 2 matches(watching not playing) while i was sitting in LoL. I still don't think it proves a damn thing, except that he definitely underestimated the trading mid wave issue and that i shouldn't have tried the trade to wukong outside of the creep waves like i did twice. and that he was BM in game.
EDIT: I'd like to see two top laners try it instead of a support player playing vs a jungler. fine, I'll use your spec and play vs. Shake. I'm a better top laner than he is anyway. Tell me your spec and we'll see what happens with Eve vs. Lee Sin. he posted it like 15 pages ago. here it is: + Show Spoiler +On July 04 2012 20:04 PrinceXizor wrote:
Evelynn Top going tanky:
6 AD marks 3 AD quints
3 Armor Marks
9 Armor Seal
6 Armor Glyph
3 Mres/lvl Glyph
vs physical damage tops
25 and 5 in offense in defense provides:
3 Damage
+10 damage to turrets
Exhaust Mastery (-10 armor + Mres)
3 armor
3 Mres
3hp/5
12 Hp/lvl
30 HP
-2 damage taken
-2 minion damage taken
-1.5% damage taken
-3% Aoe damage taken
3% bonus hp and 10% cc reduction
Doran's Shield start
let us know how it goes And you can definitely carry with supports. I don't main support but I've definitely have had games where I honestly feel like I carried my team as a support. It's usually with the more aggressive supports like Blitz, but you can do it. Carrying as a support is much much much harder and a lot more subtle, but it can definitely be done as long as your AD carry can last hit competently. I seriously doubt Eve can win. She has no sustain in lane...
But PrinceXizor refuses to concede that! EVE IS VIABLE!
/sarcasm
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On July 06 2012 00:47 Ryuu314 wrote:
And you can definitely carry with supports. I don't main support but I've definitely have had games where I honestly feel like I carried my team as a support. It's usually with the more aggressive supports like Blitz, but you can do it. Carrying as a support is much much much harder and a lot more subtle, but it can definitely be done as long as your AD carry can last hit competently.
That's why it isn't carrying for many people - you need decent ad carry to succed. Godly support with retarded rest of team is no good...
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you'd be suprised at lulu can do, her R soaks their burst, her w can shut down on of the carries, and her q is good peel/ decent damage.
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I'm not at all saying you can't make a big difference as a support, but when your AD's rather bad you're basically stuck on a losing lane, and ofcourse you can ward well, clear theirs etc but the options of turning the game are (imo) less then when you're the jungler or an AP (or top, espec with teleport). The question sort of is; do I let the last-pick guy who yells MID! I CAN ONLY PLAY MID! MID OR AFK! play mid (and subsequently quite often suck and feed) because that's still a better option then to have him as a cursing yelling support, or do I go support and hope he's halfway decent, even tho there's a very good chance that i'm the better mid?
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On July 06 2012 01:02 Promises wrote:
I'm not at all saying you can't make a big difference as a support, but when your AD's rather bad you're basically stuck on a losing lane, and ofcourse you can ward well, clear theirs etc but the options of turning the game are (imo) less then when you're the jungler or an AP (or top, espec with teleport). The question sort of is; do I let the last-pick guy who yells MID! I CAN ONLY PLAY MID! MID OR AFK! play mid (and subsequently quite often suck and feed) because that's still a better option then to have him as a cursing yelling support, or do I go support and hope he's halfway decent, even tho there's a very good chance that i'm the better mid?
On the other hand, if you are AD and your support is bad, you will also be stuck on a losing lane.
The ONLY reason this does not happen as often is this *THING* called Soraka.... Healbot ftw.
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Very true, but it often feels that if you're a good AD and your support just doesnt feed you can still get away with it decently and if your teamcomp is good carry the team, while as a support that is a lot harder to acomplish
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On July 06 2012 00:44 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 00:37 Mogwai wrote:On July 05 2012 09:56 PrinceXizor wrote:
Eh i only 1v1'd him because he caught me inbetween dota 2 matches(watching not playing) while i was sitting in LoL. I still don't think it proves a damn thing, except that he definitely underestimated the trading mid wave issue and that i shouldn't have tried the trade to wukong outside of the creep waves like i did twice. and that he was BM in game.
EDIT: I'd like to see two top laners try it instead of a support player playing vs a jungler. fine, I'll use your spec and play vs. Shake. I'm a better top laner than he is anyway. Tell me your spec and we'll see what happens with Eve vs. Lee Sin. "You didn't do it right" incoming. I promise Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 00:21 Slusher wrote:
[...]
@Kenji
I don't know how you carry on any support not named LuLu... Janna, Ali and Blitz can all win teamfights with good play. So they can all "carry". You just won't get any pentas, and you can't 1v5, so I'm sure there's some angry nerd out there that'll be all like "you don't know what carrying means", but w/e
Yeah, I'm sure many of us have seen pro games that are won by 'that perfect Sona/Janna/Alistar AoE CC' landing on either many members of an enemy team, allowing for a great engage when they were otherwise struggling in teamfights, or their CC allowing them to catch someone even only slightly out of position (or in the case of blitz, not necessarily out of position at all.. until that hook landed)
Just because they need someone else to do the damage for them doesn't mean they aren't responsible for winning the teamfight.
I want to watch Smash eve v. Shake [whatever] top. I don't even know who you can go up against at level 1 though even if you're looking for a favorable Eve vs. whoever matchup.
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You can carry with any support by playing well if you don't think so you're just bad at support.
Sona and soraka are less obvious unless you've played them a lot though. They do an insane amount still.
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On July 06 2012 01:29 Slayer91 wrote:
You can carry with any support by playing well if you don't think so you're just bad at support.
Sona and soraka are less obvious unless you've played them a lot though. They do an insane amount still.
I wouldn't even mark sona down there - she can do enough on her own between poke harass and a good teamfighting ulti that she can make plays. Soraka is the special snowflake of supports... when all you do is heal your carry/team, it can be really hard to shine and stick out as making game-winning plays the way other supports can.
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On July 06 2012 01:37 sylverfyre wrote:Show nested quote +On July 06 2012 01:29 Slayer91 wrote:
You can carry with any support by playing well if you don't think so you're just bad at support.
Sona and soraka are less obvious unless you've played them a lot though. They do an insane amount still. I wouldn't even mark sona down there - she can do enough on her own between poke harass and a good teamfighting ulti that she can make plays. Soraka is the special snowflake of supports... when all you do is heal your carry/team, it can be really hard to shine and stick out as making game-winning plays the way other supports can.
You don't know about them clutch silences
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Silence timing dood. Sorry Ryze, I tought you were about to spellvamp yourself back to health while shredding us?
Oh well, I should press F5 before answering.
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On July 06 2012 01:29 Slayer91 wrote:
You can carry with any support by playing well if you don't think so you're just bad at support.
Sona and soraka are less obvious unless you've played them a lot though. They do an insane amount still.
Aah the classic "you just suck" defence. That helps a lot =)
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Where's this coming from? If you said "I can't carry with APs" and someone said "you're just bad at APs" you wouldn't say anything. A support can carry because supports are extremely strong and have insane utility.
As for soraka carrying, I've carried more games and with less effort with soraka than almost any other champ. The silence is absurd, the heal with armour is absurd, the ult is insanely strong against any AoE and even starcall isn't bad. Healing someone with the armour buff getting targetted by any physical or burst just shuts them down so fast.
Like, seriously. "I can't carry with supports therefore supports are bad" "No actually you don't carry with supports because you're bad at supports". "Don't call me bad, you can't prove that!". It's your word against mine with this, and 99% of this board as well, but if you want to get with the facts? Check the support winrates. The top tier supports have disproportionately high winrates and always have.
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My highest winrates are on Soraka and Janna. You can "carry" games hard with supports. The plain fact is that a lot of people just don't have any goddamned idea how to play supports.
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On July 06 2012 02:08 koreasilver wrote:
My highest winrates are on Soraka and Janna. You can "carry" games hard with supports. The plain fact is that a lot of people just don't have any goddamned idea how to play supports.
I think carrying games is alot easier with Derpcrank or Alistar, aslong as you can nail your combos most of the time on Alistar you can almost always win botlane if your ad isnt retarded imo. Granted you know when and when not to engage of course
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I suck at Alistar support and I've never bought Blitzcrank. 
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On July 06 2012 00:37 Mogwai wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2012 09:56 PrinceXizor wrote:
Eh i only 1v1'd him because he caught me inbetween dota 2 matches(watching not playing) while i was sitting in LoL. I still don't think it proves a damn thing, except that he definitely underestimated the trading mid wave issue and that i shouldn't have tried the trade to wukong outside of the creep waves like i did twice. and that he was BM in game.
EDIT: I'd like to see two top laners try it instead of a support player playing vs a jungler. fine, I'll use your spec and play vs. Shake. I'm a better top laner than he is anyway. Tell me your spec and we'll see what happens with Eve vs. Lee Sin.
I'm going to six flags. ill be back on at night. Be there or be square.
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EPT
