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On July 01 2012 12:25 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 10:48 PrinceXizor wrote:On July 01 2012 10:09 Sermokala wrote:
you can't really count on different matchups going the way they should in solo q. you also can't expect people to know what to do when a gank happens so you actually get a kill and would rather say that your a shitty jungler for having bad ganks. you have to learn to be content with knowing that you're actually doing a good job.
My weakness is my lack of being at the right place at the right time for ganks. I'm going to learn panth now so I can have a larger map presence. I got to learn mumu at some point seeing how popular he is right now on na.
Also being reliant on catching axe's in a teamfight will ruin your usefulness instantly if have to stop auto attacking to go and catch an axe instead of auto attacking again. my point is. YOU DON'T unless you build a PD. you can catch axes while shooting 100% of attacks with 30% IAS outside of your bloodrush. every point of IAS after that causes waste when you catch axes. I don't care if you're flash you're not going to be doing 100% of auto attacks while chasing down axe's by the time you get the money for ie and bt. having axe's for that extra burst is nice but when your attack animation starts getting near your attack speed delay any real movement is going to kill your dps. you can't stutterstep ala sc2 marines inbetween auto attacks to get axes to make the bt worth more then the pd.
I don't think you understand.
if you don't build more than 30% IAS on Draven, all you have to do to juggle axes is:
attack*-lead-attack*-blood rush-walk attack-walk attack*-lead-attack*-blood rush-walk attack ect.
asterisks indicate spinning blades
this is very easy to do when you are not being attacked. it's more difficult when you are being attacked, that is, it's entirely a decision making difficulty, knowing where to lead comes with trust of team and experience. if you can trust your team to peel effectively, you can just lead away from the attacker and keep attacking like normal while your team peels for you. If you can't trust your team it becomes entirely you predicting the enemies movements a couple seconds in advance.
and you get 4/5 of your attacks as spinning axes, while catching them and maintaining full attacks.
it's ONLY and i mean 100% ONLY when you build more IAS (PD for instance) that your movement will cut into your attacks when catching axes. so no, any real movement WILL NOT decrease your DPS if you skip the PD. and because of this, PD is much less efficient than just playing draven well and getting a BT instead. if you play subpar you lose 6% DPS for 25% lifesteal, if you play on bar you do more DPS with more lifesteal. i don't see any reason to get PD when you can actually just improve your play.
You are arguing that as you get more IAS you have to skip out on attacks to catch axes, which is true, but the conclusion you draw from that is: if you don't get IAS you still skip out on attacks to catch axes, thus PD is more effective. Which is both illogical, and completely wrong.
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you know now that you suggest it I'm getting all these ideas about great counter bot lanes. It might be the new home of the tanky deep gap closer that don't have to give a shit about sustainability anymore. Panth, jax fiora xin lee could probably body ranged ad carries pretty hard. Not to mention your ability in the draft to bait out an easy counter pick up top throwing an ad carry up there like cait or kayle.
I'm a horrible baddie and I'm not saying this is good but it gave me a funny feeling inside for some cool games.
On July 01 2012 12:47 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 12:25 Sermokala wrote:On July 01 2012 10:48 PrinceXizor wrote:On July 01 2012 10:09 Sermokala wrote:
you can't really count on different matchups going the way they should in solo q. you also can't expect people to know what to do when a gank happens so you actually get a kill and would rather say that your a shitty jungler for having bad ganks. you have to learn to be content with knowing that you're actually doing a good job.
My weakness is my lack of being at the right place at the right time for ganks. I'm going to learn panth now so I can have a larger map presence. I got to learn mumu at some point seeing how popular he is right now on na.
Also being reliant on catching axe's in a teamfight will ruin your usefulness instantly if have to stop auto attacking to go and catch an axe instead of auto attacking again. my point is. YOU DON'T unless you build a PD. you can catch axes while shooting 100% of attacks with 30% IAS outside of your bloodrush. every point of IAS after that causes waste when you catch axes. I don't care if you're flash you're not going to be doing 100% of auto attacks while chasing down axe's by the time you get the money for ie and bt. having axe's for that extra burst is nice but when your attack animation starts getting near your attack speed delay any real movement is going to kill your dps. you can't stutterstep ala sc2 marines inbetween auto attacks to get axes to make the bt worth more then the pd. I don't think you understand. if you don't build more than 30% IAS on Draven, all you have to do to juggle axes is: attack*-lead-attack*-blood rush-walk attack-walk attack*-lead-attack*-blood rush-walk attack ect. asterisks indicate spinning blades this is very easy to do when you are not being attacked. it's more difficult when you are being attacked, that is, it's entirely a decision making difficulty, knowing where to lead comes with trust of team and experience. if you can trust your team to peel effectively, you can just lead away from the attacker and keep attacking like normal while your team peels for you. If you can't trust your team it becomes entirely you predicting the enemies movements a couple seconds in advance. and you get 4/5 of your attacks as spinning axes, while catching them and maintaining full attacks. it's ONLY and i mean 100% ONLY when you build more IAS (PD for instance) that your movement will cut into your attacks when catching axes. so no, any real movement WILL NOT decrease your DPS if you skip the PD. and because of this, PD is much less efficient than just playing draven well and getting a BT instead. if you play subpar you lose 6% DPS for 25% lifesteal, if you play on bar you do more DPS with more lifesteal. i don't see any reason to get PD when you can actually just improve your play. You are arguing that as you get more IAS you have to skip out on attacks to catch axes, which is true, but the conclusion you draw from that is: if you don't get IAS you still skip out on attacks to catch axes, thus PD is more effective. Which is both illogical, and completely wrong.
Why do you keep saying IAS? just say AS and everyone knows what your saying by building as you mean from an item ofc.
You need to understand that your example is from a perfect team in a perfect environmental. You can't account that you will be able to dictate where you move in a teamfight when you have an ability that doesn't perfectly move where you want it to like olafs q. You say predict your enemies movement in advance when you have to take into account what he'll do in those few seconds based on what you'll do. thats a really high level of situational awareness considering that you will/should be the priority of the enemy team in teamfights. BT is only better when you are useing both axe's as well. You account again that simply improving your play is going to change any of these things. You will not be moving fast enough to catch 2 axe's and keeping up 1.4 attacks a second with your blood rush active.
If none of that is clear quite simply the skills that you'll need to develop to make getting a bt worth it are so insane and require a perfect situation for you to use them. my conclusion that I'm drawing is that trying to catch axe's to make a bt worth it so damages your dps that it makes a pd better for your role in a teamfight as ad carry.
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I recall seeing doublelift trying bot poppy like 10 games in a row
he did ok... but this was back when sustain was unstoppable
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On July 01 2012 12:51 Sermokala wrote:
you know now that you suggest it I'm getting all these ideas about great counter bot lanes. It might be the new home of the tanky deep gap closer that don't have to give a shit about sustainability anymore. Panth, jax fiora xin lee could probably body ranged ad carries pretty hard. Not to mention your ability in the draft to bait out an easy counter pick up top throwing an ad carry up there like cait or kayle.
I'm a horrible baddie and I'm not saying this is good but it gave me a funny feeling inside for some cool games.
are you talking about double bruiser bot? becuase that was old meta. Or are you talking about using them as a support, to ward off enemy ad carry from getting cs by zoning?
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leesin + renek/talon is killer
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On July 01 2012 12:57 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 12:51 Sermokala wrote:
you know now that you suggest it I'm getting all these ideas about great counter bot lanes. It might be the new home of the tanky deep gap closer that don't have to give a shit about sustainability anymore. Panth, jax fiora xin lee could probably body ranged ad carries pretty hard. Not to mention your ability in the draft to bait out an easy counter pick up top throwing an ad carry up there like cait or kayle.
I'm a horrible baddie and I'm not saying this is good but it gave me a funny feeling inside for some cool games. are you talking about double bruiser bot? becuase that was old meta. Or are you talking about using them as a support, to ward off enemy ad carry from getting cs by zoning?
I thought he meant stuff like Wukong + Taric which is insane vs some ADs (Kogmaw)
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On July 01 2012 12:57 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 12:51 Sermokala wrote:
you know now that you suggest it I'm getting all these ideas about great counter bot lanes. It might be the new home of the tanky deep gap closer that don't have to give a shit about sustainability anymore. Panth, jax fiora xin lee could probably body ranged ad carries pretty hard. Not to mention your ability in the draft to bait out an easy counter pick up top throwing an ad carry up there like cait or kayle.
I'm a horrible baddie and I'm not saying this is good but it gave me a funny feeling inside for some cool games. are you talking about double bruiser bot? becuase that was old meta. Or are you talking about using them as a support, to ward off enemy ad carry from getting cs by zoning?
I ment replacing that ad carry with a brusier to shut down the enemy bot lane while hopefully giveing your top lane a good matchup to work with.
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On July 01 2012 12:55 UniversalSnip wrote:
I recall seeing doublelift trying bot poppy like 10 games in a row
he did ok... but this was back when sustain was unstoppable
For reference:
Season 1 Championship Qualifiers: Doublelift Poppy Bot(EG vs RS)
Kinda dated(note the double philo stone build), but Poppy with Taric outfarms Ashe with Sona. Don't know now it would fare now, but it worked at one point.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Scarra going red pot first Katarina in a competitive game. Those were the days.
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On July 01 2012 13:21 HazMat wrote:
Scarra going red pot first Katarina in a competitive game. Those were the days.
what event is this? lmao
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On July 01 2012 13:21 HazMat wrote:
Scarra going red pot first Katarina in a competitive game. Those were the days.
Temmo observing before we had a spectator client. almost forgot about that.
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On July 01 2012 13:18 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2012 12:57 wei2coolman wrote:On July 01 2012 12:51 Sermokala wrote:
you know now that you suggest it I'm getting all these ideas about great counter bot lanes. It might be the new home of the tanky deep gap closer that don't have to give a shit about sustainability anymore. Panth, jax fiora xin lee could probably body ranged ad carries pretty hard. Not to mention your ability in the draft to bait out an easy counter pick up top throwing an ad carry up there like cait or kayle.
I'm a horrible baddie and I'm not saying this is good but it gave me a funny feeling inside for some cool games. are you talking about double bruiser bot? becuase that was old meta. Or are you talking about using them as a support, to ward off enemy ad carry from getting cs by zoning? I ment replacing that ad carry with a brusier to shut down the enemy bot lane while hopefully giveing your top lane a good matchup to work with.
In this situation your top lane is 100% of the time gonna be an AD carry. Unless you send an AD carry mid which would probably require you to send an AP carry top.
If you ran bruiser/support bottom with a bruiser top and traditional AP mid you'd be somewhat fucked if it gets to late game because you wouldn't have an AD carry to poke down towers effectively and/or to kill tankier enemies. I don't think it's that big of a deal though because ranged AD can solo lanes pretty decent.
The main problem with running someone bottom is that he absolutely has to make plays early on. He can't just try and farm because he'll just end up being harassed down by the enemy ranged AD while the ranged AD free farms. I think that bruiser bottom can work pretty well to counter AD/support the main issue is that it's very risky and if you don't snowball the lane early enough it's actually pretty awful. It also requires someone to be comfortable with running AD carry in a solo lane unless your team doesn't wanna run a ranged AD carry (which is incredibly stupid imo, ranged AD carry is probably the strongest role in the game)
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Pulsefire Ezreal: Good for my Elo, bad for my wallet.
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Is there a funny BM thread for LoL or should I just stick it here or in QQ thread?
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On July 01 2012 12:51 Sermokala wrote:
Why do you keep saying IAS? just say AS and everyone knows what your saying by building as you mean from an item ofc.
You need to understand that your example is from a perfect team in a perfect environmental. You can't account that you will be able to dictate where you move in a teamfight when you have an ability that doesn't perfectly move where you want it to like olafs q. You say predict your enemies movement in advance when you have to take into account what he'll do in those few seconds based on what you'll do. thats a really high level of situational awareness considering that you will/should be the priority of the enemy team in teamfights. BT is only better when you are useing both axe's as well. You account again that simply improving your play is going to change any of these things. You will not be moving fast enough to catch 2 axe's and keeping up 1.4 attacks a second with your blood rush active.
If none of that is clear quite simply the skills that you'll need to develop to make getting a bt worth it are so insane and require a perfect situation for you to use them. my conclusion that I'm drawing is that trying to catch axe's to make a bt worth it so damages your dps that it makes a pd better for your role in a teamfight as ad carry.
because it's called ias...
and just building somethign else because you don't want to work hard at the optimal build is exactly the kind of lazyness that is inherent in the LoL community and especially the pro teams. They don't have to improve their play any, because they are not in danger of any up and comings, because there is no system for the up and comings, so no one practices as hard as they should. It's also why euro/american teams will be horribly horribly outmatched within a year to chinese/korean teams. they don't put in the work when they can just do something easier. why do sair/reaver when if you screw up you are far behind? oh yeah, because you get further ahead when you do it well and can outright win because of it. same concept. just improve your play, and stop taking shortcuts.
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Never using capitalization and proper grammar or spelling is also a lazy approach.
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United States10531 Posts
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On July 01 2012 15:17 Craton wrote:
Never using capitalization and proper grammar or spelling is also a lazy approach.
and yet, it is not something i claim to be a professional at, nor do i claim it is superior because it's easier.
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Who was it the other day that was talking about making a site to track their ranked progress? I think it was soniv but I cba to look back.. anyway today I came across a site that does just that. I'm gonna start using it and thought some of you guys might be interested since you were talking about it earlier
http://elolog.net
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I suggest anyone playing Ezreal to try out maxing W first. It's so good. You don't notice a loss in Q dmg that much becuase you rarely get to use it in trades and when you do it still scales off bonus dmg so it hits decent. And the W is guaranteed dmg and the 40% aspd loss is big big big.
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EPT
