EPT[Patch 1.0.0.141: Draven] General Discussion - Page 197
| Forum Index > LoL General |
|
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
| ||
|
jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On June 29 2012 02:11 Shikyo wrote: Ridiculous midgame burst? 2 normal spells with mediocre ratios? I don't see that as being ridiculous in the slightest. You're right, I was being slightly hyperbolic. However, as I just said, it's the .9 ratio on her shield. One cannot reasonably trade with her because she will almost always come out on top. In a relative sense (the fact that you will take a slew of damage while she will not), her mid game power is strong. Unless I'm completely missing something here, which is entirely possible, Janna just seems like one of those mids who you can only come out of lane even against her at best. On June 29 2012 02:07 Juddas wrote: Why is Karthus always the go to best late game AP? I play him a lot, and mostly play mid, but late game I don't feel that he can decide games as well as many other mids. For instance, I consider Veigar the best AP late game carry, because after DFG and Dcap and Void, he can go really tanky and still do insane burst damage and will likely have even more Ap than any other carry who is going more glass cannony. But anyways, I don't feel like karthus does that much damage, can't decide a teamfight for the most part until he dies, and then he loses power to finish games. Veigar can catch the carry out of posistion or even flash stun and kill them, then if his team follows up the fight is easily won. Karthus just seems meh to me in that sort of game changing regard Veigar is very good as an anti-mage late game in the sense that he can instagib the enemy carries if he manages to catch them. Saying that his late game presence is stronger than Karthus' is false, though. There is a reason that Veigar hasn't seen much competitive play, while Karthus has seen much. They can both just sit and farm in lane. However, Karthus has map presence through the entirety of the lane phase - something that Veigar does not innately have. In late game team fights, Karthus can also kill carries very very quickly. Veigar has his one burst combo and then he's done until all his cooldowns are back up (at which point, it is very likely he is dead). Karthus can keep dishing out consistent damage with his E and Q throughout the fight. He doesn't even need to build tanky if he doesn't want to. Even if Karthus dies, his E will keep a lot of AoE damage going, his wall will provide zone control, and his ult will do massive damage. It comes down to the fact that in a late game fight, AoE beats out single target any day of the week. It's the same reason that LB falls off late. Also, for Karthus, it doesn't matter what you do, he's going to get farmed eventually. If Veigar doesn't stay even or get ahead during lane phase, on the other hand, he becomes somewhat of a non-issue as team fights start to break out. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 29 2012 02:34 jcarlsoniv wrote: Unless I'm completely missing something here, which is entirely possible, Janna just seems like one of those mids who you can only come out of lane even against her at best. The tradeoff is that compared to other mids, her ability to affect other lanes is much weaker. You could probably just pick someone who can trade instaclears and then proceed to win the other 2 lanes for his team (e.g. TF). | ||
|
Juddas
768 Posts
As for the map prescense of karth vs. veig, I understand that is impossible to compete with a global ult for map prescense, however, veigar can gank ridiculously hard. Once I have my chalice and blue, I will shove my lane hard and gank bot almost every wave, and all it really takes is landing one good stun for the kill. I also go flash TP and once you get a kill or two, he becomes incredibly scary and dominant across the map. As someone who regularly plays both, I just feel so much more dominant than karthus at any stage of the game. | ||
|
barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On June 29 2012 02:41 TheYango wrote: The tradeoff is that compared to other mids, her ability to affect other lanes is much weaker. You could probably just pick someone who can trade instaclears and then proceed to win the other 2 lanes for his team (e.g. TF). why not? She doesn't seem any worse at lane ganking than, say, morgana. | ||
|
Slusher
United States19143 Posts
also, do you go DFG on Janna? I always go DFG but I played a game yesterday where our ap Janna did not go for dfg. | ||
|
Navi
5286 Posts
| ||
|
JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
His laning isn't that weak either when you consider his E is great for assisting ganks. He just has some bad lane matchups but very scary mid-late. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 29 2012 02:47 barbsq wrote: why not? She doesn't seem any worse at lane ganking than, say, morgana. Lower burst, shorter CC, shorter initiation range. | ||
|
Juddas
768 Posts
On June 29 2012 02:49 Navi wrote: Karth is a pretty deviant mid who is reliant on farm and accruing assists and kills with aforementioned farm with his ult in lane. He is a weak playmaker compared to many other APs so you have to be willing to let your teammates dictate the game for the first 15 minutes at least, which makes him a better arranged pick imo That really makes sense to me. Maybe I enjoy deciding the outcome of games more so that's why I like veigar better. That is why I play mid lol | ||
|
Navi
5286 Posts
Jnna is not as good a counter ganker as morg. In class bbl | ||
|
jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On June 29 2012 02:45 Juddas wrote: Well I would much rather have an AoE stun* than a linear slow on a similar cooldown, and veigars AoE damage is underrated to say the least. His W lands like a bomb and is almost impossible to avoid once the fight breaks out. As for the map prescense of karth vs. veig, I understand that is impossible to compete with a global ult for map prescense, however, veigar can gank ridiculously hard. Once I have my chalice and blue, I will shove my lane hard and gank bot almost every wave, and all it really takes is landing one good stun for the kill. I also go flash TP and once you get a kill or two, he becomes incredibly scary and dominant across the map. As someone who regularly plays both, I just feel so much more dominant than karthus at any stage of the game. I mean, I disagree, but it is clear that we both value the champs differently, so I'm not going to press the argument. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On June 29 2012 02:47 Slusher wrote: Janna more relevant in a teamfight than TF imo. also I don't see how her ganking could be that bad, compared to tf sure, but compared to any other mid, one of the fastest characters in the game with W leveled, and has a slow and a knockup. You need rank 3 or 4 Q to instaclear ranged minions (depending on how aggressively you get early game AP), which means you can't really get your 2nd rank W until 7 or 8 against guys that can trade instaclears with you. Lots of APs with strong ganks kick in much sooner than that. On June 29 2012 02:53 jcarlsoniv wrote: TF doesn't work nearly as well against champions that can instaclear just as easily as he can. They both clear the wave at the same time...ok, then what? TF wants to gank with his ult? If the mid is any good, he has his sides warded so he can see if TF tries anything funky. Janna can stop TF ults with any decent level of map awareness. If they are both just running to the lane for the gank, I'd personally prefer to have the AP Janna on my side. How do you propose Janna stops TF ultimate when she has to wait 10-12 seconds after her instaclear to be able to Q again? Run into enemy jungle and ult him? | ||
|
h3r1n6
Iceland2039 Posts
Ap Janna pretty good for protect the ad carry .9 ratio on shield and her R actually heals a lot with some ap too. You can also turtle forever with instant waveclear tornados. | ||
|
jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
On June 29 2012 02:55 TheYango wrote: You need rank 3 or 4 Q to instaclear ranged minions (depending on how aggressively you get early game AP), which means you can't really get your 2nd rank W until 7 or 8 against guys that can trade instaclears with you. Lots of APs with strong ganks kick in much sooner than that. How do you propose Janna stops TF ultimate when she has to wait 10-12 seconds after her instaclear to be able to Q again? Run into enemy jungle and ult him? If that's her only option at the time? Absolutely. Keeping TF from getting kills early with his ult is paramount in beating him. If a team is engaging with the expectation that TF is about to pop in and help, preventing him from doing so can turn the tides significantly. | ||
|
JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On June 29 2012 03:01 jcarlsoniv wrote: If that's her only option at the time? Absolutely. Keeping TF from getting kills early with his ult is paramount in beating him. Pretty sure janna will either arrive too late, or miss out on cs. Having a janna with lots of missed cs isn't really better than having a support janna and an ap mid that deals damage, unless you're playing protect the carry in which case mid soraka would be far better. Everytime I've seen janna mid in a competitive match she just got pushed to turret early and missed a lot of cs. | ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
| ||
|
Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
All afk. SO DEAD | ||
|
JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On June 29 2012 03:14 Dandel Ion wrote: First time in forever that more than 5 people are in EUNE LP. All afk. SO DEAD Must be NA smurfs. | ||
|
Alaric
France45622 Posts
Also: On June 29 2012 02:11 Slayer91 wrote: Care to elaborate on Sona? I know she's very good in kiting comps/sustained teamfights, but I'm still scratching my head over how to make her work in lane (too squishy/hard cc-less before 6 for kill lanes, weak and very mana-inefficient heal against sustain lanes, etc.).Soraka is crazy good too, but so is janna and sona. It's the tanky guys that feel more underpowered and even then leona and alistar can initiate even if they don't feel as OP otherwise. | ||
| ||
