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On May 05 2012 03:02 Juicyfruit wrote:
Graves being a bullshit champion does not preclude Urgot from also being a bullshit champion.
Actually, fuck all AD carries. I propose we remove all of them from the game entirely.
LoL need a mode like Dota except instead of restricting people to all agi/int/str heroes it forces everybody to stack Cleavers/Mogs/deathcaps.
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The problem is damage is really really binary.
AD carries are either useless or deadly. There is no phase where they deal decent damage. They either kill everything they look at or they dont. Its just the way defensive and offensive items scale.
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On May 05 2012 03:13 Two_DoWn wrote:
The problem is damage is really really binary.
AD carries are either useless or deadly. There is no phase where they deal decent damage. They either kill everything they look at or they dont. Its just the way defensive and offensive items scale.
That's nonsense. There are plenty of AD carries with decent midgame spells. They don't really kill tanks with those, but they put some serious hurt on squishies. Their spells then usually fall off and their pure autoattack damage kicks in. Of course if all you look at is their autoattacks, you only see an exponential curve, but that's nonsense, as I mentioned before.
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I'd disagree. It feels binary, but it really isn't. The thing is, is AD carries do sustain damage, that means during mid game when AD carries do medium amounts of damage, they won't usually be getting the kills because the last 100-200 health of low health enemy champs are usually cleared out by some form of spell/ability of a teammate which does some burst. So usually it simply doesn't "feel" like they do any damage.
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I was looking at just auto damage actually.
And ya, their midgame spells do help a bit. But I would still argue that the ramping of damage is still VERY significant even including those spells. Most of the time they arent enough to fully get through "tanky" characters, which in the early game is just about everyone who isnt the support. Dorans items and whatever early items jungle and top get are often more than enough to keep them alive against a cait, corki, or graves q.
And I mean if you think about it, it really isnt until the enemy gets a completed first bf item that you are REALLY worried about them ripping through you.
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On May 05 2012 03:00 wei2coolman wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 02:56 Mogwai wrote:On May 05 2012 02:47 chalice wrote:
i think i've seen some pros start building a triforce (zeal first) late game on urgot for dps, the proc definitely synergizes with your q spam more than most items
or just wait for the new caster dps item coming soon it also synergizes well with having essentially no other DPS items. Fucking Bruta -> FH -> GA build is such bullshit. No one has any right to be doing damage with a build like that. That was something that always fucking perplex'd me. the reason team comps scale into lategame is usually due to AD carries, but going FH GA w/ urgot does no damage(edit: lategame). It's fine if he was meant to be bruiser for team, but he's usually the AD carry.
put corki top with urgot bot solves every problem
if they believe halving the cost would more than double the sales they should halve the cost of everything ;p so maybe scumbag riot by donating less money because the item is cheaper D:
/tinfoil hat
but really its very nice thing to do
On May 05 2012 03:01 Mogwai wrote:
Meh, Graves just a bruiser with 550 auto attack range.
i said this months ago about graves having a bruiser kit and everyone said i was wrong
smash says it, doesnt get questioned
ITS AS BAD AS REDDIT HERE SOMETIMES
now to open a can of shit. does anyone else notice that players on NA server are worse than EU? maybe i am imagining things but from watching shakes stream it seems like half the people he plays at 1800-2000k elo are idiots. maybe im biased and just looking for a repeat from sc2 ladder differences but...
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There are baddies at 1800 here too. I facepalmed a lot more than I'd have thought while spectating 1800-2000 games hoping to learn shit, and that's coming from a 1300 player (granted, thanks to TL my general knowledge is probably higher than that but certainly not 1800).
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EU is full of high elo shits too, like ocelote for example.
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I think Riot should remove Infinity Edge from the PBE server and then see what happens. I feel like a large culprit to AD carries being able to facemelt everything late game is due to just that one item because it's so fucking good. It gives you everything you need, and a lot of it, except for attack speed. Second most AD from that item and it's by far the best source of crit because of the passive.
Not to mention if they removed it I'd be interested in seeing if ADs just started building BT/PD/LW or if builds diverged a little more with ADs getting Trinity more often or building things like Wit's or Atmas to give them a bit of tankyness. I dunno, but as someone who mains AD carry I feel like IE is probably the most op item in the game right now yet it gets zero attention from Riot.
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United States47024 Posts
Honestly I don't see why the game needs crit as a stable mechanic in the first place. Maybe as a one-off unique passive on an item like IE, but I don't see what positive gameplay it creates from having a whole line of items, along with runes and masteries, devoted to it.
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man i just got jew'd out of my first ever penta kill. i had quadra and the enemy shen had like 1 hit left and brand stole it "because he was about to die" (meaning brand was about to die). the few times i could have had a penta i get ninja'd on the 5th one >_<. 1k games played none yet...
mundo jungle is #1 man
User was temp banned for this post.
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On May 05 2012 05:32 TheYango wrote:
Honestly I don't see why the game needs crit as a stable mechanic in the first place. Maybe as a one-off unique passive on an item like IE, but I don't see what positive gameplay it creates from having a whole line of items, along with runes and masteries, devoted to it.
Well, I like playing AD carries. They're the role I'm best at. I feel like yeah, they probably do become too powerful in late game, and I think a good way to address that would be looking at IE. But a full removal of crit would make AD carry basically pointless to run in a team imo.
Like literally without crit your only role is going to be sieging towers. If the enemy engages at all there is no way you're going to kill them. It could make AD carry an optional role, which might not be so bad. But more than likely without crit I feel like AD carry would become an irrelevant role, to a point where they'd probably just be niche champions because their late game would fucking suck without crit.
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I missed the point where "ranged ADs outscale everyone else" became an issue.
If they wouldn't, they would be trash. They already are overshadowed by everyone else for the majority of the game.
Or do you really want everyone to have the same power curve?
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United States47024 Posts
On May 05 2012 05:37 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:32 TheYango wrote:
Honestly I don't see why the game needs crit as a stable mechanic in the first place. Maybe as a one-off unique passive on an item like IE, but I don't see what positive gameplay it creates from having a whole line of items, along with runes and masteries, devoted to it. Well, I like playing AD carries. They're the role I'm best at. I feel like yeah, they probably do become too powerful in late game, and I think a good way to address that would be looking at IE. But a full removal of crit would make AD carry basically pointless to run in a team imo. Like literally without crit your only role is going to be sieging towers. If the enemy engages at all there is no way you're going to kill them. It could make AD carry an optional role, which might not be so bad. But more than likely without crit I feel like AD carry would become an irrelevant role, to a point where they'd probably just be niche champions because their late game would fucking suck without crit.
Obviously you could compensate by adjusting the DPS/gold value of the other DPS items, to create a similar power curve. Practically speaking, you cap out at 4 items (need 1 slot for boots, and at least 1 slot for a survivability item in 90% of cases), so the multiplicative scaling isn't so out of control that you couldn't readjust the coefficients on every other term and end up with similar development.
I just don't see why crit specifically needs to be a regular mechanic in the game. It creates enough problems on its own, and it doesn't really add anything that couldn't be compensated for by tweaking the stats/gold value on other items.
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On May 05 2012 05:33 Silidons wrote:
man i just got jew'd out of my first ever penta kill. i had quadra and the enemy shen had like 1 hit left and brand stole it "because he was about to die" (meaning brand was about to die). the few times i could have had a penta i get ninja'd on the 5th one >_<. 1k games played none yet...
mundo jungle is #1 man
I know someone who played 2.5k+ games and has never penta'ed.
I think to penta you need to probably play a champion that has some easy penta mechanics (Karthus comes to mind) and play him a lot.
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On May 05 2012 05:38 spinesheath wrote:
I missed the point where "ranged ADs outscale everyone else" became an issue.
If they wouldn't, they would be trash. They already are overshadowed by everyone else for the majority of the game.
Or do you really want everyone to have the same power curve?
I don't know about anyone else, but I was just making a tongue-in-cheek joke.
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On May 05 2012 05:44 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:37 overt wrote:On May 05 2012 05:32 TheYango wrote:
Honestly I don't see why the game needs crit as a stable mechanic in the first place. Maybe as a one-off unique passive on an item like IE, but I don't see what positive gameplay it creates from having a whole line of items, along with runes and masteries, devoted to it. Well, I like playing AD carries. They're the role I'm best at. I feel like yeah, they probably do become too powerful in late game, and I think a good way to address that would be looking at IE. But a full removal of crit would make AD carry basically pointless to run in a team imo. Like literally without crit your only role is going to be sieging towers. If the enemy engages at all there is no way you're going to kill them. It could make AD carry an optional role, which might not be so bad. But more than likely without crit I feel like AD carry would become an irrelevant role, to a point where they'd probably just be niche champions because their late game would fucking suck without crit. Obviously you could compensate by adjusting the DPS/gold value of the other DPS item. I just don't see why crit specifically needs to be a regular mechanic in the game. It creates enough problems on its own, and it doesn't really add anything that couldn't be compensated for by tweaking the stats/gold value on other items.
I adds another multiplicative scaling element. The only reason why ranged ADs outscale everyone is precisely because there are AD, ASpd and Crit all scaling multiplicatively off each other. If you remove that and adjust the gold values, you drastically shift the power curve of ranged ADs towards the midgame (or you completely butcher their lategame while keeping their midgame the same).
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On May 05 2012 05:33 Silidons wrote:
man i just got jew'd out of my first ever penta kill. i had quadra and the enemy shen had like 1 hit left and brand stole it "because he was about to die" (meaning brand was about to die). the few times i could have had a penta i get ninja'd on the 5th one >_<. 1k games played none yet...
mundo jungle is #1 man
GUYS, why are you all missing the point!!!
Brand is JEWISH?!?! I was unaware that Rune Terra even had Judaism.
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On May 05 2012 05:50 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On May 05 2012 05:44 TheYango wrote:On May 05 2012 05:37 overt wrote:On May 05 2012 05:32 TheYango wrote:
Honestly I don't see why the game needs crit as a stable mechanic in the first place. Maybe as a one-off unique passive on an item like IE, but I don't see what positive gameplay it creates from having a whole line of items, along with runes and masteries, devoted to it. Well, I like playing AD carries. They're the role I'm best at. I feel like yeah, they probably do become too powerful in late game, and I think a good way to address that would be looking at IE. But a full removal of crit would make AD carry basically pointless to run in a team imo. Like literally without crit your only role is going to be sieging towers. If the enemy engages at all there is no way you're going to kill them. It could make AD carry an optional role, which might not be so bad. But more than likely without crit I feel like AD carry would become an irrelevant role, to a point where they'd probably just be niche champions because their late game would fucking suck without crit. Obviously you could compensate by adjusting the DPS/gold value of the other DPS item. I just don't see why crit specifically needs to be a regular mechanic in the game. It creates enough problems on its own, and it doesn't really add anything that couldn't be compensated for by tweaking the stats/gold value on other items. I adds another multiplicative scaling element. The only reason why ranged ADs outscale everyone is precisely because there are AD, ASpd and Crit all scaling multiplicatively off each other. If you remove that and adjust the gold values, you drastically shift the power curve of ranged ADs towards the midgame (or you completely butcher their lategame while keeping their midgame the same).
Yeah, not to mention if you did a change with crit and then changed up the gold/efficiency of DPS items AD carries would still be doing very very little damage late game. It would also likely be a bigger buff to bruisers. They don't have to worry about ever dying to an AD carry late game and could probably sneak in some big AD items to do more damage themselves.
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EPT
