EPT[Patch 1.0.0.139: Spectator Mode] General Discussion - Pag…
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United States3216 Posts
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BlueBird.
United States3890 Posts
On May 17 2012 12:44 Ryuu314 wrote: Range isn't that big an issue for Annie because her purpose is to Flash-ult initiate if needed. To that end, her effective ranges are all essentially 1k+ when taking into account Flash range. It doesn't matter if she dies shortly after as long as she gets a rotation off via Flash. Not only that, but Annie's shield gives her a ton of tank stats that shouldn't be overlooked. At max level, it gives more resists than Shyvanna ult, and Jax ult (w/out scaling); afaik it's second only to Leona's W. Annie is definitely not as squishy as you'd think. Annie should have no problem getting off her ulti, and at least 2 Qs and Ws in a teamfight, which is often more than enough to melt a squishy. I think your forgetting galio W. Unless they've changed the #s on that. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On May 17 2012 12:25 Ryuu314 wrote: how is that trolling? Annie scales better than Brand into the lategame. She has higher ratios, lower cooldowns, and isn't completely squishy due to her shield. Not to mention Brand's ulti lategame isn't really all that great since there's a very high chance most of its damage will be lost on non-essential targets. if you're trying to suggest she does more dmg than brand, then she has to make up for the fact that she's missing a whole dmg spell on brand. I honestly don't know which way it goes with annie vs brand, but if you look at stuff like ratios/cooldowns, then you also have to consider that brand has 1 more nuke than annie does. | ||
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Lorken
New Zealand804 Posts
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Treadmill
Canada2833 Posts
On May 17 2012 12:44 Ryuu314 wrote: Range isn't that big an issue for Annie because her purpose is to Flash-ult initiate if needed. To that end, her effective ranges are all essentially 1k+ when taking into account Flash range. It doesn't matter if she dies shortly after as long as she gets a rotation off via Flash. Not only that, but Annie's shield gives her a ton of tank stats that shouldn't be overlooked. At max level, it gives more resists than Shyvanna ult, and Jax ult (w/out scaling); afaik it's second only to Leona's W. Annie is definitely not as squishy as you'd think. Annie should have no problem getting off her ulti, and at least 2 Qs and Ws in a teamfight, which is often more than enough to melt a squishy. I'm not gonna dispute that. But the range WILL make a difference. Brand will be able to get a couple spells off in a teamfight where Annie never could, because of his range advantage. Maybe Annie will do more damage anyways but its an important part of the conversation. Also Brand's passive will end up doing a fair amount of damage. And 60 armour and mr when you're in the enemy Kog's range (and he's not in yours, cuz KOG) won't make that big of a difference. Edit: also, as mentioned, Brand has a whole damage spell. Also his passive. It probably just comes down to teamcomp. | ||
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deskscaress
United States399 Posts
Also, in what way are people speccing Warwick now? Every time I see him in high-level featured or play against him in arranged 5s, he usually has like scaling health and a metric fuckton of resists. Are people playing him as an immovable tanky bruiser that mostly deals Q damage? I'm still running him with AD quints/Arpen reds and just auto-attacking the shit out of my lane opponent, using Q to heal up enemy harass rather than deal damage... On May 17 2012 13:36 MooMooMugi wrote: Olaf should win by simply maxing E first and using it whenever its off cooldown, WW can't hope to trade and eventually gets zoned, plus his ult does nothing when your ult is on, one of WW's hard counters That's what they've been doing against me, but when they try to back off I Q, then just force the issue and keep auto attacking them till they start fighting back. When they fight back and commit, I use my W so I ensure that I win the exchange. Olaf is likely not maxing Q so his axes do negligible damage, and when I feel like the shit is about to go down, I wait for Loaf's W then ignite him. Predictably, when Loaf runs, he tries to wait to use his ult for after mine, but I don't use mine for the stun - I wait til he is ghosting away then use it as a gap-closer and get in a free auto+Q after he cancels it. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
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jadoth
694 Posts
On May 17 2012 12:55 BlueBird. wrote: I think your forgetting galio W. Unless they've changed the #s on that. and ram curl, singed ult, urgot ult, xin ult on 4+ people, master yi meditate, malph w for armor with 150+ armor, and trundle ult on targets with 120+ resists. | ||
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De4ngus
United States6533 Posts
On May 17 2012 13:33 deskscaress wrote: Does Warwick naturally curbstomp Olaf? I always thought Olaf would have no problems with that matchup, but I've played it 3 times in the last 2 days and won every time as Warwick. And I don't consider myself a particularly good laner O_O Also, in what way are people speccing Warwick now? Every time I see him in high-level featured or play against him in arranged 5s, he usually has like scaling health and a metric fuckton of resists. Are people playing him as an immovable tanky bruiser that mostly deals Q damage? I'm still running him with AD quints/Arpen reds and just auto-attacking the shit out of my lane opponent, using Q to heal up enemy harass rather than deal damage... That's what they've been doing against me, but when they try to back off I Q, then just force the issue and keep auto attacking them till they start fighting back. When they fight back and commit, I use my W so I ensure that I win the exchange. Olaf is likely not maxing Q so his axes do negligible damage, and when I feel like the shit is about to go down, I wait for Loaf's W then ignite him. Predictably, when Loaf runs, he tries to wait to use his ult for after mine, but I don't use mine for the stun - I wait til he is ghosting away then use it as a gap-closer and get in a free auto+Q after he cancels it. wat da fuk now i dont even know what youre talking about. olaf can just kill ww? idk you thinking too much imo  | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
WW is usually specced in AD, armor, MR and 1/21/8 masteries building tanky DPS with CDR | ||
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deskscaress
United States399 Posts
On May 17 2012 13:52 De4ngus wrote: wat da fuk now i dont even know what youre talking about. olaf can just kill ww? idk you thinking too much imo I dunno though... in prolonged auto-battles, Warwick is gonna outheal Olaf, while doing increased damage with every hit. And his W makes sure that he'll keep up in AS as Olaf gets low... Idk I guess this is why I was asking, I'm just stomping that lane left and right and I wanted to know if it was a fluke. Must be bad Loaf players I guess | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On May 17 2012 13:56 MooMooMugi wrote: Well I run heavy movement speed on my Olaf so I can usually get a E off without getting Q'd back, even if I do, 340 true damage wins over a small percentage damage from WW Q WW is usually specced in AD, armor, MR and 1/21/8 masteries building tanky DPS with CDR that doesn't even make sense, ww q's range is 400, olaf's e is 325, how can you e them without getting q'd back | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On May 17 2012 14:51 MooMooMugi wrote: How does it not make sense you E him then run away, WW has limited mana early on so he can't trade Then the movement speed doesn't matter, right? If the WW has good enough reaction time he should always be able to Q when you go in for your E | ||
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deskscaress
United States399 Posts
On May 17 2012 14:51 MooMooMugi wrote: How does it not make sense you E him then run away, WW has limited mana early on so he can't trade Idk, now that I'm actually looking at the numbers... Olaf E does 40 to himself and 100 to his target with a 9s cooldown at level 1. 325 range. WW Q does 75 to olaf (down to probably like 58 damage with MR) and heals himself for about 45. 400 range. 10s cooldown. in a straight E for Q trade, Olaf will take about 100 damage, while Warwick will take about 55. at level 5 Olaf E does 136 to himself and 340 to his target, 5s cooldown WW Q does 275 (down to probably 180 with MR), heals himself for 144, 6s cooldown. He does even more damage and healing if Loaf is stacking HP, which he inevitably will be with either Phage or Warmog's or D-blade opening items. so in a worst-case scenario for WW, E for Q trade, Olaf is taking 316 damage and WW is taking 196 damage... Obviously Warwick has mana to manage but looking at pretty typical builds for these guys (both like a little early HP buffer in either D-blades, Spirit Visage on WW, Phage, HoG, Kindlegem on Olaf, Warmogs on Olaf, etc etc etc) I don't see how Olaf can come out on top by just E-spamming WW. HP stacking helps WW against Olaf while it hinders Olaf against WW. I guess I just kinda answered my own question from earlier. I don't really see how Olaf has an advantage in this matchup and I feel better about my stomps. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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beefhamburger
United States3962 Posts
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NoobieOne
United States1183 Posts
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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