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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On March 27 2012 11:32 Praetorial wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 11:29 ManyCookies wrote:On March 27 2012 10:19 Praetorial wrote:
Me, I just use the Rune Combiner because it's cheaper and more fun(if a tad wasteful). Unless you want every rune in the game, the rune combiner is a rather large net loss (and even then, the opportunity cost of time makes the gains fairly insignificant). I have the math if you want it. Actually, that would be great, could you PM it to me? I don't want to waste any more IP if this is the case.
Very simple.
The cheapest runes are 15 IP, and you need 25 of them for a single rune, which is 375 IP. For 375 IP you get a random rune out of all the runes with a cost in between 205 and 2050 IP
However let's say only half the runes are useful to you, in which case the cost of a single rune becomes 750 IP. And you can calculate it like this.
(These aren't real numbers: )
Let's say that you figure out that you believe that 15 sets out of 50 are going to be useful to you, or 30% of them. In this case you just divide 375 by 0.3 and you get 1250. This means that, assuming that only 15 kinds of runes out of a total of 50 are useful to you, the average cost of a rune is 1250 IP.
Then as you count in the time loss and the fact that having some random runes lying around is useless and you mostly want the set of 9 as soon as possible... Yeah.
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Jesus. Just played Crystal Scar and Twisted Treeline for the first time in months. Don't even know wtf happened.
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I have a friend who is about to hit level 30. He's kind of terrible and wants to get better. I really have no idea how to coach him, are there any guides/resources you guys could link me to?
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On March 27 2012 13:40 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 11:32 Praetorial wrote:On March 27 2012 11:29 ManyCookies wrote:On March 27 2012 10:19 Praetorial wrote:
Me, I just use the Rune Combiner because it's cheaper and more fun(if a tad wasteful). Unless you want every rune in the game, the rune combiner is a rather large net loss (and even then, the opportunity cost of time makes the gains fairly insignificant). I have the math if you want it. Actually, that would be great, could you PM it to me? I don't want to waste any more IP if this is the case. Very simple. The cheapest runes are 15 IP, and you need 25 of them for a single rune, which is 375 IP. For 375 IP you get a random rune out of all the runes with a cost in between 205 and 2050 IP However let's say only half the runes are useful to you, in which case the cost of a single rune becomes 750 IP. And you can calculate it like this. (These aren't real numbers: ) Let's say that you figure out that you believe that 15 sets out of 50 are going to be useful to you, or 30% of them. In this case you just divide 375 by 0.3 and you get 1250. This means that, assuming that only 15 kinds of runes out of a total of 50 are useful to you, the average cost of a rune is 1250 IP. Then as you count in the time loss and the fact that having some random runes lying around is useless and you mostly want the set of 9 as soon as possible... Yeah.
You could take all the useless runes and run them through the rune combiner again, right? If my assumption is true, you're forgetting a rather important part of the calculations. If i'm wrong, ignore this entire post.
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On March 27 2012 13:50 Lokrium wrote:
I have a friend who is about to hit level 30. He's kind of terrible and wants to get better. I really have no idea how to coach him, are there any guides/resources you guys could link me to?
Solomid.net for getting a general idea on how to play the game via streams/guides, other then that just play more and more and try to assess your obvious mistakes each game, the more you play and watch the more things become obvious and the better your gameplay can become.
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United States37500 Posts
On March 27 2012 13:50 Lokrium wrote:
I have a friend who is about to hit level 30. He's kind of terrible and wants to get better. I really have no idea how to coach him, are there any guides/resources you guys could link me to?
solomid.net or lolpro.com for guides
use this subforum for specific champion discussions
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On March 27 2012 14:08 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 13:50 Lokrium wrote:
I have a friend who is about to hit level 30. He's kind of terrible and wants to get better. I really have no idea how to coach him, are there any guides/resources you guys could link me to? solomid.net or lolpro.com for guides use this subforum for specific champion discussions
explain the minimap and lasthitting to him.
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A rune question:
Why do most AP mids run ap/lvl blues instead of cdr blues? Isn't AP easier to itemize and CDR more difficult?
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United States37500 Posts
On March 27 2012 15:17 nosliw wrote:
A rune question:
Why do most AP mids run ap/lvl blues instead of cdr blues? Isn't AP easier to itemize and CDR more difficult?
Current trend for Glyphs on AP Mids are either AP/Level or Flat MR.
You can get near max CDR at level 18 with Blue buff and Blue elixir.
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On March 27 2012 15:19 NeoIllusions wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 15:17 nosliw wrote:
A rune question:
Why do most AP mids run ap/lvl blues instead of cdr blues? Isn't AP easier to itemize and CDR more difficult? Current trend for Glyphs on AP Mids are either AP/Level or Flat MR. You can get near max CDR at level 18 with Blue buff and Blue elixir.
Also, a good portion of mids are rather bursty, with longish cooldowns. If you want to actually kill somebody it's better to be bursty and be able to combo 70% of somebodies health in one go than to get two rounds of 50% 10% faster.
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I know this was from a few pages back, but I'll be at Pax if any of you guys wanna hang out.
@smash I'll be on your team if you feel like carrying the shit out of me.
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How the hell are you supposed to lane against Veigar? You play passively he just farms up and gets 30 billion AP. You play normally he laughs in your face and kills you because his burst is retarded and he out ranges every single AP champ in the game.
Aside from just straight up picking Panth/Talon is there anyway to beat him? OIr are you just supposed to bend over and take it?
Even if you just flat out stack MRes he just poops on you because he can stun you, get off his full combo and run away before you can do shit. If he was played with any regularity he'd be imo the most OP champ in the game. I feel liek there is just nothing you can do.
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United States37500 Posts
On March 27 2012 15:59 iCanada wrote:
How the hell are you supposed to lane against Veigar? You play passively he just farms up and gets 30 billion AP. You play normally he laughs in your face and kills you because his burst is retarded and he out ranges every single AP champ in the game.
Aside from just straight up picking Panth/Talon is there anyway to beat him? OIr are you just supposed to bend over and take it?
Even if you just flat out stack MRes he just poops on you because he can stun you, get off his full combo and run away before you can do shit. If he was played with any regularity he'd be imo the most OP champ in the game. I feel liek there is just nothing you can do.
Rush Mercs. With CC reduction, you should never have to eat another Meteor.
Burst him in lane constantly. You don't have to kill him. Just enough to force him to back so he can't just afk, last hit Q farm.
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On March 27 2012 15:59 iCanada wrote:
How the hell are you supposed to lane against Veigar? You play passively he just farms up and gets 30 billion AP. You play normally he laughs in your face and kills you because his burst is retarded and he out ranges every single AP champ in the game.
Aside from just straight up picking Panth/Talon is there anyway to beat him? OIr are you just supposed to bend over and take it?
Even if you just flat out stack MRes he just poops on you because he can stun you, get off his full combo and run away before you can do shit. If he was played with any regularity he'd be imo the most OP champ in the game. I feel liek there is just nothing you can do.
As a (fairly) low level Veigar player, I find constant harassment from level 1 incredibly irritating. It forces me to either 1. not farm my Q, which hurts mid-lategame, or 2. take the beating. Also, as said above, getting tenacity or stun reduction makes my E+W combo a lot weaker, because I have to choose between stun duration and damage.
Veigar is essentially a snowball character. A bad start to the game without kills/assists and/or a good Q farm pretty much dooms Veigar for the rest of the game, and you're forced to try and get some farm from other lanes as much as possible. Take advantage of this and get someone like LeBlanc to harass heavily, then press the teamfight when Veigar splits off to get more farm.
That said, does anyone have advice for Veigar players like me? I've been more focused on farm recently, but nyjacky's aggressive Veigar looks like it might work as well. Thoughts?
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Hmm saint not using ult on mundo despite getting focused until at 200hp and then blaming hourglasses or something. :/ And HSGG not much better. I guess people really have a problem admitting when they make mistakes. However that was a very clear outpicki, Chogath was a horrible pick as was Vayne, in my opinion Caitlyn would have been the way to go there along with a toplaner like Olaf or Irelia, I would say. Not sure about the picking order though. I just really don't think someone like vayne is viable vs Kennen and Morgana. Actually Tristana would have been good or Ali for support in order to push Kennen and Morgana away from them. I'm assuming Janna was not available. And yes, I love trying to analyse why teams lose and what they could improve upon.
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It shouldn't be priority to farm q on creeps. The 1 ap you gain can rather be used to harass your opponent and gain lane control. When you're using q to farm creeps at the early stage of the game you're literally handicapping your mana pool for a small marginal benefit. There's more opportunity later for you to farm your q when you have more mana to work with.
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On March 27 2012 13:50 zodde wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 13:40 Shikyo wrote:On March 27 2012 11:32 Praetorial wrote:On March 27 2012 11:29 ManyCookies wrote:On March 27 2012 10:19 Praetorial wrote:
Me, I just use the Rune Combiner because it's cheaper and more fun(if a tad wasteful). Unless you want every rune in the game, the rune combiner is a rather large net loss (and even then, the opportunity cost of time makes the gains fairly insignificant). I have the math if you want it. Actually, that would be great, could you PM it to me? I don't want to waste any more IP if this is the case. Very simple. The cheapest runes are 15 IP, and you need 25 of them for a single rune, which is 375 IP. For 375 IP you get a random rune out of all the runes with a cost in between 205 and 2050 IP However let's say only half the runes are useful to you, in which case the cost of a single rune becomes 750 IP. And you can calculate it like this. (These aren't real numbers: ) Let's say that you figure out that you believe that 15 sets out of 50 are going to be useful to you, or 30% of them. In this case you just divide 375 by 0.3 and you get 1250. This means that, assuming that only 15 kinds of runes out of a total of 50 are useful to you, the average cost of a rune is 1250 IP. Then as you count in the time loss and the fact that having some random runes lying around is useless and you mostly want the set of 9 as soon as possible... Yeah. You could take all the useless runes and run them through the rune combiner again, right? If my assumption is true, you're forgetting a rather important part of the calculations. If i'm wrong, ignore this entire post.
Theoretically rune combining is cheaper than straight up buying T3 runes assuming you want to have a broad selection of runes. The addition of Lifesteal, Spellvamp and Hybrid Penetration runes made it even better assuming you want (some of) those.
The proper way to go about it is to stock up on 15 IP runes, combine them for T3 runes, recombine ALL the 205 IP T3 runes as well as the runes that you don't want to keep. Whether it actually is worth it for you depends on the runes you want to keep; I don't know right now how much the combined value has to be.
But in reality, you can't make good use of these random rune selections. You will have to combine until you reach the point where it's not profitable anymore (each complete set reduces the efficiency of combining), and then you have to fill up the remaining rune sets. Only then you can really make use of your runes.
And that just takes too long to be worth the savings. Trust me, I tried it. It's only fun for a while.
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On March 27 2012 16:53 spinesheath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 13:50 zodde wrote:On March 27 2012 13:40 Shikyo wrote:On March 27 2012 11:32 Praetorial wrote:On March 27 2012 11:29 ManyCookies wrote:On March 27 2012 10:19 Praetorial wrote:
Me, I just use the Rune Combiner because it's cheaper and more fun(if a tad wasteful). Unless you want every rune in the game, the rune combiner is a rather large net loss (and even then, the opportunity cost of time makes the gains fairly insignificant). I have the math if you want it. Actually, that would be great, could you PM it to me? I don't want to waste any more IP if this is the case. Very simple. The cheapest runes are 15 IP, and you need 25 of them for a single rune, which is 375 IP. For 375 IP you get a random rune out of all the runes with a cost in between 205 and 2050 IP However let's say only half the runes are useful to you, in which case the cost of a single rune becomes 750 IP. And you can calculate it like this. (These aren't real numbers: ) Let's say that you figure out that you believe that 15 sets out of 50 are going to be useful to you, or 30% of them. In this case you just divide 375 by 0.3 and you get 1250. This means that, assuming that only 15 kinds of runes out of a total of 50 are useful to you, the average cost of a rune is 1250 IP. Then as you count in the time loss and the fact that having some random runes lying around is useless and you mostly want the set of 9 as soon as possible... Yeah. You could take all the useless runes and run them through the rune combiner again, right? If my assumption is true, you're forgetting a rather important part of the calculations. If i'm wrong, ignore this entire post. Theoretically rune combining is cheaper than straight up buying T3 runes assuming you want to have a broad selection of runes. The addition of Lifesteal, Spellvamp and Hybrid Penetration runes made it even better assuming you want (some of) those. The proper way to go about it is to stock up on 15 IP runes, combine them for T3 runes, recombine ALL the 205 IP T3 runes as well as the runes that you don't want to keep. Whether it actually is worth it for you depends on the runes you want to keep; I don't know right now how much the combined value has to be. But in reality, you can't make good use of these random rune selections. You will have to combine until you reach the point where it's not profitable anymore (each complete set reduces the efficiency of combining), and then you have to fill up the remaining rune sets. Only then you can really make use of your runes. And that just takes too long to be worth the savings. Trust me, I tried it. It's only fun for a while.
So it's good for a new account then I guess? Randomness (omg gambling) makes it fun though :D Stuff like that will always attract people
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On March 27 2012 15:59 iCanada wrote:
How the hell are you supposed to lane against Veigar? You play passively he just farms up and gets 30 billion AP. You play normally he laughs in your face and kills you because his burst is retarded and he out ranges every single AP champ in the game.
Aside from just straight up picking Panth/Talon is there anyway to beat him? OIr are you just supposed to bend over and take it?
Even if you just flat out stack MRes he just poops on you because he can stun you, get off his full combo and run away before you can do shit. If he was played with any regularity he'd be imo the most OP champ in the game. I feel liek there is just nothing you can do.
Veigar is generally considered (pre mana buff) to be one of the weakest laners. Like Nasus he was kind of "underplayed" because while he's a monster late game his laning is really bad.
I haven't played against much Veigar since his buff so I'm not super up to date on the match ups but I'm pretty sure you just play the lane how you did before his buffs. You go aggressive on him from level 1 when he's crazy weak and just be careful not to get stunned once he has his crazy burst. Cassiopeia, Kassadin, LeBlanc, Xerath, and any AP that lets you play really aggressive are capable of beating him in lane phase. The ones I named specifically can usually zone him from creeps.
Although I will say, if you play aggressive against Veigar you do have to be careful. One fuck up can lead to you dying if a gank comes and he lands stun.
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On March 27 2012 10:33 Skithiryx wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2012 10:07 StUfF wrote:On March 27 2012 10:03 Alaric wrote:On March 27 2012 09:49 Promises wrote:
Is he a bit of a forgotten pick or are there a lot of weaknesses to him? He's a sleeper. Most people didn't realize (or straight up underestimated) the strength of his ganks and the punch his ult packs if you build some AS. There was a big focus on Frenzy, as it's a huge skill (for a given missing HP%, it basically inflicts more damage than Garen's ultimate until you try to hit a target that has around 4K HP, on a much shorter cd, and following a 60% AS boost) that got nerfed quite soon. I think as a Top laner - he loses to almost everyone, I can't really think of a favourable match up. As a jungler, his clear speed is fairly slow, again doesn't have many good match ups, and is fairly mana reliant if I recall last time I tried to jungle as him. He doesn't really lose to anyone that bad outside the normal vlad/swain/kennen against most melee he's able to trade pretty effectively thanks to his E+W As a jungler he can be a little slower but his ganks make up for it hardcore.
I found this too, I did quite well against a few traditional match-ups top (Irelia/Lee/Trynda), and a in the midgame Voli just raped face hard in fights.
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EPT
