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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! |
On April 05 2012 20:56 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 20:49 turdburgler wrote:On April 05 2012 20:35 obesechicken13 wrote:On April 05 2012 20:24 CreationSoul wrote:
i have been playing lots of tristana lately... and i have some mixted feelings about her
- i hate her early: squishy, must farm A LOT, when she is ganked she dies.....
- i love her late-game: as an AD carry, she can do lots and lots of damage.... her ultimate is really good if user corectly and her steroid ability is wonderful.
- she is very mana-hungry until level 10 or so.....
I haven't found a build that i am totally satisfied with..... but i am getting there. 1. What AD doesn't need to farm a lot? I'm actually curious. Does Kog's ult or Ez's Q make them viable mid game so they're useful before lots of farm? Does Graves' AD scaling on buckshot and his ult? 2. How does she die more to ganks than other champions? I find it very easy to just rocket jump away. I always tell my allies to focus the support when I'm ganking trist as a jungler. 3. I don't have the mana problems. Her Q should be maxed first imo. Her E provides like 110 damage at level 1 and +30 damage for every level past that. A 1 point wonder used for the explosive harass. I have some mana regen runes though. 4. I like getting phage for the slow then Iedge followed by two PDancers with greaves and a vamp scepter thrown in. I think LW is a suitable replacement for the second pdancer in some games. Ended up going 15-4 in my last game, from something like 5-4. Our team was up an overall 8 kills when we won. i dont think anyone else maxes q first, i think most people max e for more explosive harras when both ads are farming creeps, even if the use barely gets stronger. I'm actually curious as to why no one else maxes Q first. I've alternated between the two and though about maxing Q first when I read the MF guide saying to max W first on MF. Why the inconsistency between the two AD carries?
Trist's E gives way more power early than her Q. Q is more important lategame, when you melt face with your AAs.
You harass the opponent just by lasthitting, by a very noticeable amount if you level it.
Trist plays kinda like a burst-mage in lane, where you W in and then unleash the rest of your combo. Q is not really useful for that, since you don't actually want to trade. (Trist can't trade for shit) You jump in when there's an opportunity, with WE and some autos you get the opp low, and force him to think he has to back off or die. Gut reaction will almost everytime be for them to back off, while you go hide in some bush, while your E does the work for you.
The only thing where you really need to activate Q is when you're pushing a tower, or want to farm real fast.
MF is a different story, because on her, level 1 E does just as much as level 5: slow the enemy. You don't get that for damage, just for the slow. And for damage, you get Q and W on her. Auto-Q-Auto is a devastating combo when W is on and leveled.
The "inconsistency" is because Trist and MF have opposite positions in early and lategame: MF is an earlygame bully that aims to win the lane. Trist is more of a lategame carry, because of the AA range her passive gives, and Q as a great lategame steroid.
So on Trist, you emphasise farming more than on MF.
While both do have farming as their main objetive, being ADs and all, on MF it's more often worth it to lose 1-2 creeps to push the opponent out of the lane.
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What are froggens anivia runes
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On April 05 2012 10:27 phyvo wrote:
I"m a little disappointed that they described him as a centaur (implying that he at least has flesh) when he's really two glowing sets of armor glued together.
Once I get over that though I'll have to convince Monte to theme team with me using him + xerath/morde/nautilus.
They never said 'Centaur', they said 'equine'.
People assumed 'Centaur'.
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On April 05 2012 21:29 Two_DoWn wrote:
What are froggens anivia runes
I think he uses movespeed/magic pen/health per level/flat mr
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wtf, all this time and I only know you can upload to wfbroad on Youku just now O_O.
Thanks for the upload, watching it right now.
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On April 05 2012 21:40 Nytefish wrote:
I think he used movespeed/magic pen/health per level/mr
Afair he has like 4 runepages for anivia, all called "trollivia" or something in that direction.
Most of them got Mpen, and movespeed quints.
Then there's random collections of health (flat and /level), MR, armor, mp5/level, CDR/level, ...
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On April 05 2012 20:24 CreationSoul wrote:
i have been playing lots of tristana lately... and i have some mixted feelings about her
- i hate her early: squishy, must farm A LOT, when she is ganked she dies.....
- i love her late-game: as an AD carry, she can do lots and lots of damage.... her ultimate is really good if user corectly and her steroid ability is wonderful.
- she is very mana-hungry until level 10 or so.....
I haven't found a build that i am totally satisfied with..... but i am getting there.
Along with a strong support, she's prolly one of the AD carries with highest burst in lane.
Build is something like boots+3 pots or dblade -> zerk 2xdblade for lane -> IE -> PD -> LW/QSS.
23/0/7, taking mpen and arpen along with deadliness (however perhaps im wrong and sunder is better). Flash/heal imo, you can change heal for cleanse if needed.
I guess runes is something like ad marks/ad quints/flat mres blues and armor seals. You could perhaps switch the quints for HP, because you gotta jump in with your W everytime you wanna commit to a real fight.
WEWEWR where you level R > W > Q > E. Don't take Q in lvl 4, it isn't that useful imo.
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On April 05 2012 21:39 lurked wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 10:27 phyvo wrote:
I"m a little disappointed that they described him as a centaur (implying that he at least has flesh) when he's really two glowing sets of armor glued together.
Once I get over that though I'll have to convince Monte to theme team with me using him + xerath/morde/nautilus. They never said 'Centaur', they said 'equine'. People assumed 'Centaur'.
That doesn't really address the core point of my complaint at all, which is everything after the word "centaur". Aside from my nitpicking the dude is still a centaur and is leading a ghostly centaur army.
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froggens kogmaw is so good. seems like all that skill shot training on anivia is transferable ;D
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How does everyone feel about no wriggles on jungle Lee sin? I've been opting for an early 2 doran's blades rather than getting wriggles.
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voyboy's new practice regimen is trying to carry while pooksie spam whispers him with the most annoying and useless shit
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On April 05 2012 22:58 -Valor- wrote:
How does everyone feel about no wriggles on jungle Lee sin? I've been opting for an early 2 doran's blades rather than getting wriggles.
's what I do
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People love shitting all over Wriggles lately, but I still really like it.
actually, I'm not a jungle or top main, I just dabble, I'd like to hear more about why wriggles seems to be falling out of favor. "sell me" if you will. Is it because of early dragon becoming less popular (not worth the risk)? And it was mentioned earlier on this page but the ward for top lane felt like a must when I was playing top, now you don't see wriggles on a lot of tops, where before it felt like only kennen/rumble passed on it.
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On April 06 2012 00:08 Slusher wrote:
People love shitting all over Wriggles lately, but I still really like it.
Of course, it's not because you have less lifesteal that it became terrible. Still gives you armor, AD, drag control and a ward.
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On April 05 2012 22:58 -Valor- wrote:
How does everyone feel about no wriggles on jungle Lee sin? I've been opting for an early 2 doran's blades rather than getting wriggles.
#1 lee sin build is like 6min bf sword first.
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On April 06 2012 00:08 Slusher wrote:
People love shitting all over Wriggles lately, but I still really like it.
actually, I'm not a jungle or top main, I just dabble, I'd like to hear more about why wriggles seems to be falling out of favor. "sell me" if you will. Is it because of early dragon becoming less popular (not worth the risk)? And it was mentioned earlier on this page but the ward for top lane felt like a must when I was playing top, now you don't see wriggles on a lot of tops, where before it felt like only kennen/rumble passed on it.
The wriggles nerf just stimulated people to try out other stuff, with buying 1-2 dorans on first back becoming a popular alternative to wriggles. Getting double dorans gives you a rather big power advantage over someone building a wriggles, who can buy longsword+vampscepter+some hp pots for the same gold.
This powerdifference can be abused by champions with high kill potential, especially since it's common to go back before lvl 6 and hit lvl 6 with the items you bought on first back. The advantage that can be gained and abused for the entire laning phase can make dorans blades a worthwhile investment, eventhough wriggles is more cost & slot efficient on the long term.
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I'm still confused over those double dblade builds on Irelia or Warwick, with people litterally insulting me when I suggest building wriggles on Irelia against AD Sion, or on Shen against AD Nidalee. Must be so silly to go for armor + sustain on champs with shields/innate sustain rather than pure AD, especially when they scale worse off it than AS, right? 
On champs like LS or Wukong I can understand it (I'd never go wriggles on Panth). But those I saw? Granted, I think they'd have reacted the same way even before wriggles' nerf.
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On April 06 2012 00:08 Slusher wrote:
People love shitting all over Wriggles lately, but I still really like it.
actually, I'm not a jungle or top main, I just dabble, I'd like to hear more about why wriggles seems to be falling out of favor. "sell me" if you will. Is it because of early dragon becoming less popular (not worth the risk)? And it was mentioned earlier on this page but the ward for top lane felt like a must when I was playing top, now you don't see wriggles on a lot of tops, where before it felt like only kennen/rumble passed on it.
I still get wriggles on a lot of junglers that I used to get it on (Nocturne and Shyvana, for example) but I've been getting it less on some junglers like Riven lately for a couple of reasons. On someone like Riven her clearing speed isn't reliant on auto-attacks as much as it is on her casts, and getting her big AD item is important so getting 2 dblades instead of wriggles allows you to get your core items faster. There's also the fact that double AP comps have gotten really popular over the past couple of months and in those cases wriggles helps less.
I feel like wriggles is too good of an item to pass up on if you're an AD champ against an AD champ top lane though, for a lot of champs. Even with the nerfs it's still a very well balanced item that's cost-efficient. It's just that AP tops are so common these days.
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On April 05 2012 17:42 Alaric wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 14:52 sob3k wrote:
Viktor is solid vs cass, bit rough until you get level 3 lazer or abouts....after that you can just harass her all day with its fat damage, lay stun on her if she starts twin fanging you, shield poison damage with Q.
I feel mostly comfy laning vik vs cass, which is alot more than you can say for most other champs
Also you can cast lazer while facing away from her, which is quite nice Could you be more specific about the match-up? I went against a Cass yesterday, confident that I would be able to farm saefely with E (max it, one shot creep waves from outside her range with death and/or some drings, profit). She rushed revolver, sorcs, wota, with MS quints, and abused her range so that I couldn't do much, since Q's range is shorter on Viktor, and the laser depletes your mana pool really fast, be it to farm or harass, if you don't have blue. He can't trade either, and after her revolver she'd just be impossible to fight with blue as she'd heal all harass between E cooldowns by E'ing creeps. Granted, I had one or two kill opportunities that I missed by almost nothing (missclick and don't flash before she does, she stays out of ignite's range). But I'm under the impression that a split second error would kill me (or almost) even post-6, while I had to carefully harass her into kill range. I guess if you want to run to her you'll keep your ult on purpose to cast it during her ult's animation and cancel it with the 0.5s silence? I don't know how it works, if it cancels it, if her cd gets refounded or not, etc. I've checked the Wiki and her Q is on a 3s cd, it seems short to be able to dodge, close the distance, cast something on her then go back to abuse her the way you can abuse Veigar or Kassadin or Morgana. I guess that wouldn't work. Granted, I got smashed by a Viktor as Swain (too much damage on his ult, and the range differential is actually huge, + even before he gets some levels in E his Q is enough to shield a good portion of your DoT at low level). And even managed to lose to Swain as Morgana... pushed him around and outfarmed him a bit early on, and only hit two snares while I had blue buff before he was 6, then I just couldn't put him into kill range because of long cds and 3s delay on SS allowing heal to him a bit. And I used to pride myself as a Morgana main and was able to hit snares reliably... I don't play mid nearly enough, I've become so bad. x_x
Well, early on you really cant do shit to her, shes gonna Q you whenever you go to last hit, you just survive and stay back.
Viktor is someone you REALLY want blue on. Like you said, E is incredibly expensive, and thats all you are going to be landing on a decent Cass. I open 3 drings vs cass and other matchups where I wont be able to use Q as much. If you arent going to be getting blue then I would actually maybe go for chalice. I havent tried it but you just need the mana.
The lane is basically entirely about lazer, if you are failing you probably are just missing too many. Its also very important to be last hitting AND hitting cass with a good percentage of them, its not hard to set it up so it goes through the ranged minions and her etc. Get the death augment and you should be able to significantly outdamage her revolver heal while staying out of range of anything. I dont even attempt to use Q unless I know it is a 2 second window where she is on total cooldown. Also if you have mana and/or blue, use it to last hit stuff if you get poisoned to get the shield.
I cant really give any advice other than that except you need to hit a really high percentage of those lazers while otherwise staying basically completely safe. If they are dodging well you just need to be more unpredictable in your directions and hit them at less than max range during CDs.
Dont bother trying to use stun unless you fuck up and she is fang chasing you, or if she ults and fucks up. Trying to land W will get you killed by jungler or her from being too far up and having it on CD.
At no point should you ever have the mentality with Viktor that you are going to "trade" with cass or any other good laner until you have double their CS and/or several kills. I've tried trading with Q and playing more aggressively, and you are just going to get fucking wrecked. Viktor is all about just lazering the crap out of them and never ever getting hit.
EDIT: and get a jungle with a snare or preferably a stun. Cass is easy to gank when she ends up pushing most of the time, a stun with W ontop of it is like 4 seconds of disable and should be guaranteed kill 100% of the time.
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On April 05 2012 22:03 Sponkz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2012 20:24 CreationSoul wrote:
i have been playing lots of tristana lately... and i have some mixted feelings about her
- i hate her early: squishy, must farm A LOT, when she is ganked she dies.....
- i love her late-game: as an AD carry, she can do lots and lots of damage.... her ultimate is really good if user corectly and her steroid ability is wonderful.
- she is very mana-hungry until level 10 or so.....
I haven't found a build that i am totally satisfied with..... but i am getting there. Along with a strong support, she's prolly one of the AD carries with highest burst in lane. Build is something like boots+3 pots or dblade -> zerk 2xdblade for lane -> IE -> PD -> LW/QSS. 23/0/7, taking mpen and arpen along with deadliness (however perhaps im wrong and sunder is better). Flash/heal imo, you can change heal for cleanse if needed. I guess runes is something like ad marks/ad quints/flat mres blues and armor seals. You could perhaps switch the quints for HP, because you gotta jump in with your W everytime you wanna commit to a real fight. WEWEWR where you level R > W > Q > E. Don't take Q in lvl 4, it isn't that useful imo.
on Trist I skill r> w> 2 in e > q > last 3 in e
reason is early game you are the burst mage as already said and you kinda want kills, you want the q as high as possible when you get the IE for the dmg
on MF I actually skill
r>w>e>q (at lvl 2 1 in q)
the reason is: you kinda need the slow to be able to kite the dmg you gain from the e is noticeable and later on using q is actually a dps loss.
Same with kogmaw for the slow I skill r>w>e>q
I pretty much use 21/9/0 for every single ad the hp you get is just so awesome. I will probably try 21/0/9 for kogmaw if I have the correct setup where I get blue buffs.
No points in havoc but getting the lifesteal for better laneingphase. Sometimes I use manaregen on several ads. When I dont need the magic resist in lane. For Tristana I actually sometimes use flat ap for the extra burst (If I run a killlane)
Summoners either Flash/heal or flash/ignite (only for trist tho) I just like the flash too much, you could also use heal/ignite
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EPT
