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Remember guys, this is the general discussion thread. Keep whine/QQ posts in the appropriate QQ memorial thread! Thanks! | ||
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jadoth
694 Posts
On April 05 2012 14:18 nyxnyxnyx wrote: i dont like the assassins kill cass argument if assassins kill cass, who tends to include wota/rylai in core then assassins kill anybody and assassins OP i think it is more that all assassins have very high mobility so when you go in cass misses a lot and it is imposible for her to use her ult. | ||
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tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
I think that if a Cass is good then she is pretty much set to dominate the other person in lane if you don't factor in jungle ganks into the equation. | ||
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sob3k
United States7572 Posts
I feel mostly comfy laning vik vs cass, which is alot more than you can say for most other champs Also you can cast lazer while facing away from her, which is quite nice | ||
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tobi9999
United States1966 Posts
On April 05 2012 14:52 sob3k wrote: Viktor is solid vs cass, bit rough until you get level 3 lazer or abouts....after that you can just harass her all day with its fat damage, lay stun on her if she starts twin fanging you, shield poison damage with Q. I feel mostly comfy laning vik vs cass, which is alot more than you can say for most other champs Also you can cast lazer while facing away from her, which is quite nice Viktor is retarded against everyone once he gets to level 6+. But I think the problem is that Cassiopeia can just pretty much straight up kill anyone at level 2 by pressing q and e. I know that if I get vision on the enemy jungler levels 2-5, as Cassiopeia I go past the enemy ranged creeps to completely zone the other player. A lot of the time they try to fight me, which is how I always get my kills. speaking as a 79% win rate 1700 elo Cassio player :/ | ||
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Sufinsil
United States760 Posts
Pretty strong. Lulu can get first CC off and dish good AD dmg. Would have to see it against with a better support. | ||
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iCanada
Canada10660 Posts
On April 05 2012 14:11 valheru wrote: I am under the impression that Kassadin is weak in early laning and that many champions can absolutely annihilate him pre-six, and these champs are typically ones with great range, e.g ziggs or really strong early e.g sion or LeBlanc who else is there and what attributes does Kass not want to see in the enemy? Thanks. Lots of Champs counter Kassadin. He has weak early game, so any good early game champ can just grab free farm... think Sion, Panth, Brand or LeBlanc. He melee so anyone with a ranged skill or Auto attack can easily zone him pre six. He weak as hell before 6, only really has his Q to trade with... and at level 1 two Autos does more damage than his Q. He not super strong under his own tower, and it hard for Kass to go roam and gank lanes when his tower super pushed. So anyone who can out push him win the lane pretty hard as well. That ranges from Galio, Morde, Morgana, Vladimir, Xerath, Ziggs, TF, Karthus, Brand, Ahri... etc. Push that lane all day everyday and just ward away any ganks. Basically you just need to not get damaged for free by his Q and pretty well every decent laner beats him in lane. If I were to pick a champ to always play against him I would likely choose Sion; Sion can practically ignore Kass even post six. Just sit there and farm, then if Kass goes to Q you just run at him and press W/Q before the attack lands and win trades because you have a better CC, a better Auto attack, a shield, and more spammable nukes nukes to boot. Sion also just as good at roaming/ganking and outpushes Kass all day erryday. Morg is damn good too, Kass has no kill potential on her at all and she can just auto farm waves with pool while auto attack harrasing Kass from out of his range. Her spellshield gets rid of most of Kassadin's harrass entirely and then she has the CC to keep Kass in place. Any AD champ beats him pretty hard as well, his passive pretty well worthless and his Q's main feature not near as helpful. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
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Navi
5286 Posts
On April 05 2012 14:51 tobi9999 wrote: Cassio zones galio early on, but once galio gets chalice it's quite hard for cass to stay even with him :/ I think that if a Cass is good then she is pretty much set to dominate the other person in lane if you don't factor in jungle ganks into the equation. get early levels of W = no early zoning your q's add up in damage insanely quick, especially for a no sustain champ like cass | ||
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Slusher
United States19143 Posts
I feel like I'm going to get Blown up for saying this, but I'll admit I think Fizz is a decent matchup vs.Cass however it can snowball against you very quickly if you make mistakes or the Cass is a superior player. 1. obviously you must be deceptive about going for last hits, but above all you MUST approach from inside the creep wave, forcing harass to push the lane. If you are sucsessful at this she will either have to let you farm or be suseptable to ganks. 2. Because you level E first, I prefer to use E to engage after an errant q by cass, E actually does more damage then people give it credit for, but to really make the harass worth it make sure to land 1-2 AA before using your own Q on a minion to put yourself back in the middle of the creep wave. Because of how the dash works you can use Q from behind her, but it is risky in my opinion, if she moves on you or just aim it poorly you stand to lose all you just gained. 3. Finally, even if you are outfarmed, a Sheen+ Fizz can combo Cass for almost her entire lifebar, do not be dicouraged, you can kill Cass even after losing lane by more than you would think, as long as you get Sheen before she gets giants belt for Rylai's you are a threat to her. There are likely easier options, but this does work, personally I like Ziggs, not as much kill potential but less dangerous, vs. Cass, but I've been put in situations where I've already picked and it's worked out to be what I think is a good matchup, but you will be sweating balls until the first time you kill her. I've also added to my repitore since this post, pre-6 walk up w+AA is crazy mindgames and cheap on mana. On April 05 2012 15:44 ihasaKAROT wrote: Fizz can wear down Cass just as easily as the other way around, just with a little more CD in between. That is easily overcome with an E out. W Q into Cass, her her again till she lands a Q then E out. Repeat next time with your ulti and ignite and its a 100% kill. Its gonna be close tho if she lands her ult too. I prefer E engage because it provides the option of getting damage from your rushdown and your escape also the damage is higher on E if you level it first, which I prefer, but q first isn't wrong either. (I actually go E>W>Q>Emax>Qx2>Wmax>Q) | ||
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ihasaKAROT
Netherlands4730 Posts
Its gonna be close tho if she lands her ult too. | ||
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Cloud
Sexico5880 Posts
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Promises
Netherlands1821 Posts
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Node
United States2159 Posts
On April 05 2012 15:31 Navi wrote: get early levels of W = no early zoning your q's add up in damage insanely quick, especially for a no sustain champ like cass In my extensive experience of playing the matchup a grand total of twice, as cass it's a good idea to stand to the side of the wave and force galio to decide between using his abilities on you and doing damage and using them on creeps and getting cs, since even with his shield if he has to melee creeps you can hurt him a lot. His q's really do hurt quite a bit, though. | ||
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wussleeQ
United States3130 Posts
On April 05 2012 15:55 Promises wrote: I noticed that people are finally starting to realise Viktor is actually good ^^ Met quite a few more Viktors of late, altho most of them had a pretty bad build/skill order. I always thought his burst was really good when he came out on release and with that buff he'd be actually considered a strong pick... but he's just too boring for me to play  | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
On April 05 2012 15:47 Cloud wrote: Best way to dodge a cass Q is to move towards her. side imo, saw on jiji's stream a year ago to dodge mage skillshots by moving laterally | ||
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miicah
Australia2470 Posts
Just a thought. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On April 05 2012 16:48 miicah wrote: Why are top laners still getting wriggles? Is it because of the armour? Vamp sceptre + 1 dorans + chain vest is the same price as wriggles, you only sacrifice 5ad and end up with 15 more armour and 3% more life steal. Just a thought. Free ward, 1 item slot, can always reward without having to go back. It only gives 1% more lifesteal, and wriggles gives 13 more ad, not 5. What's the deal with junglecreeps critting, sometimes when I start wolves they crit the shit out of me. | ||
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Amui
Canada10567 Posts
On April 05 2012 16:48 miicah wrote: Why are top laners still getting wriggles? Is it because of the armour? Vamp sceptre + 1 dorans + chain vest is the same price as wriggles, you only sacrifice 5ad and end up with 15 more armour and 3% more life steal. Just a thought. The ward. That's the most important part of it. Good stats for most top laners, but the ward is what makes it unbeatable. | ||
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Serpico
4285 Posts
. But it is useful for getting familiar with her. Feels so good to land a couple of stuns in a row that turn the teamfight completely in your favor. Also the damage if a team sleeps on getting MR....good lord. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On April 05 2012 13:47 anmolsinghmzn2009 wrote: what AP mids (except leblanc) can trade decently vs a cass? No one mentioned it but ziggs does really well vs cassio.He's kinda my main ap mid so I have a decent amount of experience with it.My runes are kinda like how froggen runes anivia with move speed quints and some magic resistance.You can out trade cassio early game(like first 3 lvls),your passive just does too much damage when you trade and with move speed quints you can dodge her poison pretty well(Yordle hit box or lololol).After you both get blue you just either turn the lane into a farm fest because a ziggs with blue just clears like a beast and than go gank other lanes or attempt to make cassios life harder by spamming your Q on her and trying to catch her with E.I prefer just to farm like crazy take the wraiths over and over again and just gank other lanes and watch out if you can snipe someone with your ult. Oh and a cassio can't prevent a ziggs from farming,as I said early game your autoattack just does too much damage and if you manage to dodge one poison shot its pretty one sided assuming you hit your Qs.Later on with blue you just clear too fast with your Q E combo and even if you get behind because of a gank or something you can still farm because your Q has a maximum rage of 1400 and you can't really get zoned.Ziggs is not a hard counter to cassio or anything like that but from my experience ziggs has a hell of an easier time in lane than most of aps against her.Than again im 1600 elo and I don't play against the best cassios,tho at this elo she's picked in every other game so there should have been some good ones  I don't think I ever lost a lane against cassio with ziggs. | ||
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