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While this thread is labeled "DotA2", this is in fact a community thread first. Many of the users in the TL LoL subforum have been playing as friends for over a year now, so it makes logical sense that they would want to play other games together.
Do not compare DotA2 to LoL, you will get banned.
TL LoL veterans know what is expected. Newcomers be warned.
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Meh, if you've played LoL to a decent level, why not try out QoP?
I really hate the "start on easier" heroes type of mentality, and this was true for me as well when I started in LoL. I was much better on ahri than I was on annie even though people will say annie is easier. Mechanically, QoP is not that difficult. More or less it takes experience in knowing when to blink in and how to play aggressively. You don't really learn that from playing another hero unless you're vsing QoP yourself.
Also, hell no I would not say puck is easier than QoP. Don't know why you think that.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 07 2012 15:52 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Meh, if you've played LoL to a decent level, why not try out QoP?
I really hate the "start on easier" heroes type of mentality, and this was true for me as well when I started in LoL. I was much better on ahri than I was on annie even though people will say annie is easier. Mechanically, QoP is not that difficult. More or less it takes experience in knowing when to blink in and how to play aggressively. You don't really learn that from playing another hero unless you're vsing QoP yourself.
I have no qualms suggesting mechanically difficult heroes to LoL players. That's not going to be the part of the game that's hard for LoL players. The thing with QoP is that what makes her difficult is not mechanical. It's ALL game knowledge and understanding heroes/items/gameflow.
There's zero sense in suggesting a hero's whose effectiveness depends so hugely on understanding the limits of what the other 9 heroes in the game are capable of, as well as in selecting a good path of item development for someone who is just barely trying to learn what those heroes and items even do.
On March 07 2012 15:52 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Also, hell no I would not say puck is easier than QoP. Don't know why you think that.
Because Puck's difficulty is largely mechanical. You have a straightforward role, can play basically to a cookie-cutter build, and have flexible escapes that lend themselves well to good mechanical play. Like I said with Dragon Knight, this lets you focus on learning the GAME rather than get bogged down on learning the HERO.
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Gaining experience of other matchups is a lot simpler and more straightforward than you think. Just learn as you go along and you'll know how to play QoP faster than if you played 50 other different heroes. In team fights he works very similar to kassadin. Mostly play like a pussy, hit as many people as you can, blink out of trouble, blink to chase, etc, not much to work on there.
Puck can be safer, but only if you know how to play the hero. Otherwise, you sort of just end up being just as useless as a newbie QoP. Also really, when you're starting out there is really not a big downside to using blink only defensively. Hell, I don't see how a puck jumping in is much safer than a QoP blinking into something unwarranted. QoP blink is shorter cd and it's a lot easier to mess up on her skills.
I don't even get what you're saying. You just said puck was more difficult mechanically and that this allows you to somehow focus on learning the game more as opposed to the hero? Learning the different matchups on Puck is just as important. The hero itself is balanced in such a way where it is so flexible that if you don't play it right it's underpowered.
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If you want to learn mid lane then qop/puck are fine. If you want to learn the game, as in what heroes do, what to do at certain parts of the game, etc...then pick a support or tanky guy like DK.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 07 2012 16:07 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I don't even get what you're saying. You just said puck was more difficult mechanically and that this allows you to somehow focus on learning the game more as opposed to the hero? Learning the different matchups on Puck is just as important. The hero itself is balanced in such a way where it is so flexible that if you don't play it right it's underpowered.
Yes, because for a LoL player, the mechanics aren't that much more difficult than what's in LoL.
And you're not looking at this the same way here. It's not a question of learning individual matchups. I'm saying that at the top level, a new player should be concerned with understanding the general game flow and roles of the heroes involved. Puck's role is pretty much clear every game, so it's fairly easy for a new player to do what he's supposed to be doing, and pay attention to what's happening around him. It's hard to do that with Queen of Pain because of how sensitive her own role and tempo are to everything else that's happening--even ex-pro commentators have a hard time pinning down what she should be doing in a lot of games. It's hard to observe how the game is flowing when you constantly have to worry about "what should I be doing?"
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On March 07 2012 16:24 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2012 16:07 Itsmedudeman wrote:
I don't even get what you're saying. You just said puck was more difficult mechanically and that this allows you to somehow focus on learning the game more as opposed to the hero? Learning the different matchups on Puck is just as important. The hero itself is balanced in such a way where it is so flexible that if you don't play it right it's underpowered. Yes, because for a LoL player, the mechanics aren't that much more difficult than what's in LoL. And you're not looking at this the same way here. It's not a question of learning individual matchups. I'm saying that at the top level, a new player should be concerned with understanding the general game flow and roles of the heroes involved. Puck's role is pretty much clear every game, so it's fairly easy for a new player to do what he's supposed to be doing, and pay attention to what's happening around him. It's hard to do that with Queen of Pain because of how sensitive her own role and tempo are to everything else that's happening--even ex-pro commentators have a hard time pinning down what she should be doing in a lot of games. It's hard to observe how the game is flowing when you constantly have to worry about "what should I be doing?"
Blink and kill the squishy obviously.
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Dota feels so weird compared to LoL, I have no idea how long which hero can disable me and so on. h4h4 Really annoying.
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On March 08 2012 07:08 dismiss wrote:
Dota feels so weird compared to LoL, I have no idea how long which hero can disable me and so on. h4h4 Really annoying.
I'm kinda approaching it like I approached LoL, just with more brain cause I know what works for me.
Basically this means: Do what I think will work, die a horrible death, find out why I died a horrible death and repeat the same mistake till I stop making it. =D
PS: Playing Nature's Prophet is a great way to learn who can gank you how hard and how fast. >_<
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On March 08 2012 07:33 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 07:08 dismiss wrote:
Dota feels so weird compared to LoL, I have no idea how long which hero can disable me and so on. h4h4 Really annoying. I'm kinda approaching it like I approached LoL, just with more brain cause I know what works for me. Basically this means: Do what I think will work, die a horrible death, find out why I died a horrible death and repeat the same mistake till I stop making it. =D PS: Playing Nature's Prophet is a great way to learn who can gank you how hard and how fast. >_<
I have a pretty good handle on the champs that see competitive play by watchin streams- IE Chen, NP, Enchantress, Venge, Invoker, ES.
The only champ that REALLY confused me up to this point was Doombringer. Dude made no sense.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 08 2012 07:37 Two_DoWn wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 07:33 r.Evo wrote:On March 08 2012 07:08 dismiss wrote:
Dota feels so weird compared to LoL, I have no idea how long which hero can disable me and so on. h4h4 Really annoying. I'm kinda approaching it like I approached LoL, just with more brain cause I know what works for me. Basically this means: Do what I think will work, die a horrible death, find out why I died a horrible death and repeat the same mistake till I stop making it. =D PS: Playing Nature's Prophet is a great way to learn who can gank you how hard and how fast. >_< I have a pretty good handle on the champs that see competitive play by watchin streams- IE Chen, NP, Enchantress, Venge, Invoker, ES. The only champ that REALLY confused me up to this point was Doombringer. Dude made no sense.
TBH there are a lot of heroes that SHOULD be seeing competitive play but aren't right now. For example, Dragon Knight and Ancient Apparition are huge in Chinese DotA 1 but are comparatively unseen in DotA 2.
It was actually really funny to see a bunch of teams picking DK after EG came back from China, build him incorrectly, get mediocre results, and then go back to their normal picking styles.
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Only thing I REALLY need in this game atm is an understanding of items and what is good on whom. Heroes are easy to learn. Items notsummuch.
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On March 08 2012 07:33 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 07:08 dismiss wrote:
Dota feels so weird compared to LoL, I have no idea how long which hero can disable me and so on. h4h4 Really annoying. I'm kinda approaching it like I approached LoL, just with more brain cause I know what works for me. Basically this means: Do what I think will work, die a horrible death, find out why I died a horrible death and repeat the same mistake till I stop making it. =D PS: Playing Nature's Prophet is a great way to learn who can gank you how hard and how fast. >_<
i do the same thing except figuring out why i died/learning from it
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Actually, now that I think about it, the most useful thing that someone could do for this thread would be to break down items into their lol (ish) equivalents and then say wether they are good, or if there is no lol equivalent explain why we should get it.
Kind of like how I got a Manta Style the other day and it was basically a PD only instead of crit I got 2 mini miranas, or how Mek is like summoner heal.
If someone would be willing to do that I would give HUGE props.
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On March 08 2012 09:56 Two_DoWn wrote:
Actually, now that I think about it, the most useful thing that someone could do for this thread would be to break down items into their lol (ish) equivalents and then say wether they are good, or if there is no lol equivalent explain why we should get it.
Kind of like how I got a Manta Style the other day and it was basically a PD only instead of crit I got 2 mini miranas, or how Mek is like summoner heal.
If someone would be willing to do that I would give HUGE props.
If you haven't seen the LoL transition guide linked in the OP, it has a section that does roughly that for items similar to LoL summoner spells:
Flash = Blink Dagger
Heal = Mekanism
Clarity = Arcane Boots
Teleport = Boots of Travel
Ignite = Dagon would be the closest I think
Smite = Hand of Midas
Revive = There is a buyback ability that allows you to spend gold to immediately re-enter the game
Ghost = Phase Boots
Rally = Each team has an ability to re-enforce their towers for a short time.
Exhaust = The Rod of Atos
Clairvoyance don't has an equivalent.
I agree that a break-down on items would be incredibly helpful (once I learn to actually get more than one last-hit per wave... I can't figure out why my last-hitting is THAT much worse in dota2 than in LoL)
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Ya I saw that list for summoners, but a breakdown for the rest of the items with a description for what they were in lol terms- even if it was "really big bf sword" would be helpful.
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On March 08 2012 10:07 Two_DoWn wrote:
Ya I saw that list for summoners, but a breakdown for the rest of the items with a description for what they were in lol terms- even if it was "really big bf sword" would be helpful.
Do you want literally every item? I'll get to work on this, want to try to get the most accurate comparisons though.
Edit: Would your prefer I do it as Dota item-> LoL equivalent, or the other way around?
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On March 08 2012 10:29 red_ wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 10:07 Two_DoWn wrote:
Ya I saw that list for summoners, but a breakdown for the rest of the items with a description for what they were in lol terms- even if it was "really big bf sword" would be helpful. Do you want literally every item? I'll get to work on this, want to try to get the most accurate comparisons though. Edit: Would your prefer I do it as Dota item-> LoL equivalent, or the other way around?
In my mind the most helpful thing would be Dota item->lol equivalent/description.
And I'll take how many ever items you are willing to translate.
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Vancouver14381 Posts
On March 08 2012 10:05 danana wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2012 09:56 Two_DoWn wrote:
Actually, now that I think about it, the most useful thing that someone could do for this thread would be to break down items into their lol (ish) equivalents and then say wether they are good, or if there is no lol equivalent explain why we should get it.
Kind of like how I got a Manta Style the other day and it was basically a PD only instead of crit I got 2 mini miranas, or how Mek is like summoner heal.
If someone would be willing to do that I would give HUGE props. If you haven't seen the LoL transition guide linked in the OP, it has a section that does roughly that for items similar to LoL summoner spells: Show nested quote +Flash = Blink Dagger
Heal = Mekanism
Clarity = Arcane Boots
Teleport = Boots of Travel
Ignite = Dagon would be the closest I think
Smite = Hand of Midas
Revive = There is a buyback ability that allows you to spend gold to immediately re-enter the game
Ghost = Phase Boots
Rally = Each team has an ability to re-enforce their towers for a short time.
Exhaust = The Rod of Atos
Clairvoyance don't has an equivalent. I agree that a break-down on items would be incredibly helpful (once I learn to actually get more than one last-hit per wave... I can't figure out why my last-hitting is THAT much worse in dota2 than in LoL)
I would say ignite is more like negative urn charge and fortify is like fortify. Don't think rally has an equivalent.
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United States47024 Posts
On March 08 2012 09:56 Two_DoWn wrote:
Kind of like how I got a Manta Style the other day and it was basically a PD only instead of crit I got 2 mini miranas, or how Mek is like summoner heal.
There's also the part where it's a mini-QSS that even experienced players forget sometimes (activating Manta Style removes most debuffs from you).
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See, this is why you need ta do this yango.
Then I get list and copy it over a few times to remember the items and paste it to the wall while I play.
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EPT
