EPTDouble Wriggle's procs are way less impressive than they sound on Baron/Dragon because it's a magic damage proc on a champion with no MPen. The proc only does ~330 damage to Dragon and 250 damage to Baron.
[Patch 1.0.0.135: Fiora] General Discussion - Page 130
| Forum Index > LoL General |
Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content. Thanks. Happy Gaming. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
Double Wriggle's procs are way less impressive than they sound on Baron/Dragon because it's a magic damage proc on a champion with no MPen. The proc only does ~330 damage to Dragon and 250 damage to Baron. | ||
|
ManyCookies
1164 Posts
| ||
|
Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
| ||
|
clickrush
Switzerland3257 Posts
On March 14 2012 02:32 TheYango wrote: Just did the math--even on Dragon, you need like 250 AD for a Q double Wriggle's proc to do more than 1000 damage. On Baron you need like 670 AD, which is pretty much never going to happen. For all practical purposes, Feast, Consume, and Smite are still stronger than Shyvana double-Wriggle's procs, at least as far as Baron/Dragon are concerned. For Buffs, double Wriggle's procs come out ahead because both buffs have 0 MR. Double Wriggle's procs are way impressive when they sound on Baron/Dragon because it's a magic damage proc on a champion with no MPen. The proc only does ~330 damage to Dragon and 250 damage to Baron. also the chance that you get a double procc is only 4% and it increases the chance for you to get 1 procc by only 12%. According to the wiki you get 1.5 free attacks if maxed considering attack animation while the second attack cannot crit. I find wriggles very good on her though and I would still time twin bite on buffs and dragon/baron. but twin bite's damage can be deceiving i think because dps wise its not better than than just an AS steroid which alot of junglers have. If you have like very short trades then it comes out on top obviously. | ||
|
turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On March 14 2012 02:54 Two_DoWn wrote: Wriggles is a DoT, not burst. The more HP something has, the better wriggles is. wat its an auto attack modifier. unless your bursting something down in 5 seconds its a 0.2*wriggles proc dmg increase to your auto hits / any attacks that proc on hit effects. its basically a % damage increase against non champions, when talking about dragon etc wriggles is no better than it is against baron, or the other way around. nothing you said is wrong, its just a really odd way to phrase it ;/ | ||
|
Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On March 14 2012 03:16 turdburgler wrote: wat its an auto attack modifier. unless your bursting something down in 5 seconds its a 0.2*wriggles proc dmg increase to your auto hits / any attacks that proc on hit effects. its basically a % damage increase against non champions, when talking about dragon etc wriggles is no better than it is against baron, or the other way around. Its better on Blue than it is on a little wriath because you have more time to normalize the proc. Its better on dragon than blue because you have more hits to normalize the proc. Its better on baron than dragon because you have even more hits to normalize the proc. Obviously there will be incredibly lucky proc streaks, but overall the more hp something has the better wriggles is as a damage source because of the fact you are more likely to hit the propper proc rate. | ||
|
Sandster
United States4054 Posts
EDIT: Not true for the dragon vs baron comparison. Both take long enough that your procs should average out. And if it doesn't - well, you did dragon so fast it doesn't matter anyway. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On March 14 2012 02:54 Two_DoWn wrote: Wriggles is a DoT, not burst. The more HP something has, the better wriggles is. What is this... A DoT is like Ignite. If you walk away from your target, it still deals damage. If you start hitting Lizard and then walk away, Lizard doesn't take additional damage. ... sometimes I don't get you, TD. | ||
|
Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
| ||
|
Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On March 14 2012 03:22 NeoIllusions wrote: What is this... A DoT is like Ignite. If you walk away from your target, it still deals damage. If you start hitting Lizard and then walk away, Lizard doesn't take additional damage. ... sometimes I don't get you, TD. A DoT is simply damage over time. Wriggles does damage over time, it doesnt burst. BTW you might want to adjust your definition. Cuz according to you Malz ult isnt a DoT. | ||
|
Abenson
Canada4122 Posts
So I read that: -Wriggle's dmg is based on how much hp the target has (Bloodrazer...?) -Wriggle's is a DoT (O_O) -Wriggle's gives/has crits -Wriggle's has a cooldown WTF O_O | ||
|
Shiv.
3534 Posts
On March 14 2012 03:22 NeoIllusions wrote: What is this... A DoT is like Ignite. If you walk away from your target, it still deals damage. If you start hitting Lizard and then walk away, Lizard doesn't take additional damage. ... sometimes I don't get you, TD. I'm pretty sure all he was implying is that Wriggle's on objectives isn't used to HERPADERPBURSTBARONINASEC but rather to increase your sustained damage, getting better the higher the objective's HP is. Obviously, the term damage over time is used wrongly here, but if I interpreted his statement correct, his statement is true. | ||
|
Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
| ||
|
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 14 2012 03:27 Shiv. wrote: I'm pretty sure all he was implying is that Wriggle's on objectives isn't used to HERPADERPBURSTBARONINASEC but rather to increase your sustained damage, getting better the higher the objective's HP is. Obviously, the term damage over time is used wrongly here, but if I interpreted his statement correct, his statement is true. I don't think anyone ever disagreed with that. What's very possible is that he's taking my response at the top of the page out of context, without realizing that it's in response to seraph saying that double Wriggle's procs and Wriggle's crits were stronger burst nukes than Feast/Consume/Smite. | ||
|
Shanba
Scotland144 Posts
On March 14 2012 03:25 Two_DoWn wrote: A DoT is simply damage over time. Wriggles does damage over time, it doesnt burst. BTW you might want to adjust your definition. Cuz according to you Malz ult isnt a DoT. Wriggles bursts, no? It's a 425 damage nuke, not a DoT - it doesn't take any time at all to apply that 425 damage. | ||
|
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
Malz's ulti suppresses both targets, so yes, he can't move. But it's guaranteed damage over time. Wriggle's isn't guaranteed since it's % chance to proc. Mathematically, it's possible to hit Dragon 18 times and get zero Wriggle's procs. How is that a DoT? | ||
|
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On March 14 2012 03:27 Shiv. wrote: I'm pretty sure all he was implying is that Wriggle's on objectives isn't used to HERPADERPBURSTBARONINASEC but rather to increase your sustained damage, getting better the higher the objective's HP is. Obviously, the term damage over time is used wrongly here, but if I interpreted his statement correct, his statement is true. I agree that Wriggle's/Madred's are much more effective/cost-effecient against targets with greater health pools. You increase the # of procs you get, the more often you get to attack. Sure. I disagree with any part of Wriggle's being called a "DoT". | ||
|
wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
New discussion topic: Non-regular supports that you think can work. I've been playing fiddlesticks as support, it makes for a decent kill lane. Especially on hard engages. Pretty fun shit. Also been seeing some Ashe's as support, seemed fairly successful. Seen some GP support, to some mediocre success. Also, what happened to Taric in lane? He seemed to disappear off the face of the map. No real support changes except nerfs to soraka and sona... which, you would think, would make Taric better. But however, what happened is Janna/Alistar/Nunu botlane became the exclusive supporters. | ||
|
Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On March 14 2012 03:30 NeoIllusions wrote: How is Wriggle's a DoT? It's a proc that does extra magic damage. +450 damage at a time. I consider that a small "burst". Malz's ulti suppresses both targets, so yes, he can't move. But it's guaranteed damage over time. Wriggle's isn't guaranteed since it's % chance to proc. Mathematically, it's possible to hit Dragon 18 times and get zero Wriggle's procs. How is that a DoT? Because the damn meaning of DoT is DAMAGE OVER TIME. Wriggles increases your DAMAGE OVER TIME. If you want to get SUPER pedantic- Wriggles gives ad. Which is damage. Which means that every time you hit something, you are guarunteed to do more damage, with a passive chance for a crit. Wriggles is a shit ton more analagous to a Swain E that has a possibility to crit than feast. Put it this way Neo: all that right clicking is is a DoT spell that doesnt cost mana that is available to anyone. Buying ad increases the effectiveness of that spell. | ||
|
Shiv.
3534 Posts
On March 14 2012 03:32 NeoIllusions wrote: I disagree with any part of Wriggle's being called a "DoT". Yep, it was a really unfortunate choice of words. It's a little burst that improves your damage over time on a target, but that obviously doesn't make it a DoT. Whenever I hear DoT I think about a Warlock's Curse of Agony and Corruption. Those are DoT's. | ||
| ||
