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Same rules apply, per usual. Please use the appropriate threads (QQ, Brag, Champion, etc) whenever appropriate. Keep the resident Banling content. Thanks. Happy Gaming. | ||
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Abenson
Canada4122 Posts
I am playing in a small local tournament, and due to the enemy team captain having no organizational skills we had a huge scheduling conflict. Basically, my problem is that I need 2 ringers for a Bo3 in the tournament. The enemy team is composed of mainly 1400~1500 elo, so don't worry about doing too badly. The game will be Wednesday, March 14th, 1:00PM EST. Please PM me on TL if you are available during that time and is willing to play. Thanks, Abenson | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On March 14 2012 00:33 Sabin010 wrote: How is what I said almost entirely wrong? Are you really going to pick Shyvanna over some one like Naut when your lanes are Tryn, Orianna, Soraka, and Ez? Even if you're building tanky to counter their DPS, if your DPS isn't cutting it because they're not getting kills in lane from ganks while the enemy is getting kills from ganks, you're going into the mid/late game behind. Can you elaborate a little more as to what exactly is wrong in my post? You mention GP, who is an exception because of his ability to gank two lanes at once when he's six, and his q farm will add up in a 40 minute game. Well, the bits about LS getting screwed by not getting kills early is correct. Elaboration: It is a VERY bad idea to pick a jungle based on if you think you need CC for ganks. How do you even know you will have an opportunity TO gank? Proper warding from the enemy team and you are screwed. Not to mention a good portion of the champ pool is pretty damn hard to gank, not to mention bot lane itself is the worst gank you can try to execute on a regular basis. Part of the reason TOO so reliably falls behind late game is because he focuses so hard on trying to gank and force something to be there that isnt. If you pidgeon hole yourself into that role from the start, you are going to end up with a team that has 2 useless champions instead of just one. Now, CC gankers work. But they work best with EARLY game champions who have burst and generally some CC of their own, not late game ones. TSM won MLG with Mao LB, not Mao Oriana. If you are building a late game comp, your focus should be on farming and trying to take an advantage as soon as you possibly can. Shyvana, for example, is capable of applying pressure on the enemy jungle and making THEM uncomfortable, which in turn protects your lane. Nautilus, on the other hand, gives the enemy free reign to do whatever he wants and even gives him the ability to start applying pressure not only to your lanes, but you as well. Sure, you can try to gank your way to victory, but in a case where the enemy has proper wards or ganks arent converted, you will end up behind. As for that actual hypothetical team in a late game scenario, I would rather have Shyvana. You built a zerg comp. Naut has the ability to q in, but after that he stands around. Shyvana can take the ori ball, ult in, and start wreaking havoc with tryndamere while your ezreal stands to the outside and picks off the people running from you. After all, you are shyvana, and people WILL be runing from you. With Nautilus, your teamfight is actually pretty bad. With shyvana in that comp you have a great zerg team. With naut, you cant really go aggressive OR let them engage onto you. Trynd wants to be aggressive, but Naut has no good way to draw agro from the enemy if both of them are in melee range. And as soon as the fight starts the enemy is going to try to rush past you as soon as you can to get at your squishies. And you dont have anywhere NEAR enough peel on one character to make that happen. Sure, you can stop one person and slow the rest, but thats it. They blow past you, pick apart your squishies, and leave you and tryndamere standing around looking for someone to hit. Now, pretend you had a comp with Annie, Ashe, Jarvan, and well, any support but janna. Naut fits VERY well into that comp. Everything about that comp screams locking down the enemy, catching someone out and just bursting them down. Not to mention Naut is going to make your early dragon fights very good when comboing with the early burst from Annie. Someone like Mundo doesnt work as well here. He has low initial burst and doesnt really add anything to that initial combo. Getting CC for CC's sake is basically the same as getting as seeing a 1k player say "we need a tank" in champ select. And as for your last point- ya, if the enemy jungle gets kills on your team, you are going to be behind. But the answer to that isnt "we need to get kills IN REVENGE" its "how do we not die" | ||
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WaveofShadow
Canada31494 Posts
As for that actual hypothetical team in a late game scenario, I would rather have Shyvana. You built a zerg comp. Naut has the ability to q in, but after that he stands around. Shyvana can take the ori ball, ult in, and start wreaking havoc with tryndamere while your ezreal stands to the outside and picks off the people running from you. After all, you are shyvana, and people WILL be runing from you. With Nautilus, your teamfight is actually pretty bad. With shyvana in that comp you have a great zerg team. With naut, you cant really go aggressive OR let them engage onto you. Trynd wants to be aggressive, but Naut has no good way to draw agro from the enemy if both of them are in melee range. And as soon as the fight starts the enemy is going to try to rush past you as soon as you can to get at your squishies. And you dont have anywhere NEAR enough peel on one character to make that happen. Sure, you can stop one person and slow the rest, but thats it. They blow past you, pick apart your squishies, and leave you and tryndamere standing around looking for someone to hit. Or they disengage/choose not to fight until they initiate properly with some form of cc.... I agree that Naut isn't a good pick necessarily in that case, but I think at that point with that team you're probably screwed anyway. I understand it's hypothetical, I just don't see how it's GOOD. | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
On March 14 2012 01:03 Alaric wrote: Then def-not-Moonbear came by and told us "No there's really no-thing at all secretly special hidden in those files~". don't people have the ability to poke around in these files? im surprised nobody has been like oh hey guys look at the super secret stuff I found here in the files. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On March 13 2012 23:54 Alaric wrote: Get a 3100 item without easy buildup (Shurelya's components are individually both good and cheap for example) nor direct team benefit on a support, and we'll talk again.  Edit: yeap, I know all that, T_D—well, I read you every time at least. I'm tempted to pick up Mundo but I'm waiting for his next free week to make sure, GP just doesn't cater to me (only thing I like in his kit is ranged harass, and critplank so obnoxious it managed to send me away)*. Then I'll have to break some dude's heart by telling him "your Amumu blows!", then to another wanting the spot "your Shyvana blows too, unless enemy team feeds you!", then claim the spot and go into hell camp practice mode. * had a Tryndamere yesterday, went top, announced to us it was his first Tryn game, proceeded to smash a Fiora (wasn't on rotation yet) and carry from getting so fed, then apologized to her and to the enemy team, saying he just bought him as he hated him and wanted to try for himself. Added that now that it was done, he didn't have to play him again. Was fun. lolololol, that's my story with trynd too. I use to duo q with my friend a lot, and he'd always play trynd, usually going legendary almost every single game. I was convicned trynd was the most op'd ezpz champ ever. So i bought trynd simply to show him how op'd he was, Played 2 games, went legendary each game. Never played trynd since. | ||
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
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Kyo Yuy
United States1286 Posts
I always thought that one of the benefits of AOE fast clear junglers is that they don't NEED Wriggles which gives them room to build other items, like GP10s or Wit's End or whatever is appropriate. I am not trying to argue that building Wriggles on Shyvana is WRONG, I just want to know why that is the case. In general, what is the benefit of getting Wriggles on fast clear junglers like Shyvana, Mundo, and Skarner? Especially in the case of Mundo I am curious what people think of Wriggles on him - TOO gets Wriggles on Mundo whereas Saint does not. | ||
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Thermia
United States866 Posts
On March 14 2012 01:39 Kyo Yuy wrote: On the topic of Shyvana, I'm curious - why do high level players build Wriggles on Shyvana? I always thought that one of the benefits of AOE fast clear junglers is that they don't NEED Wriggles which gives them room to build other items, like GP10s or Wit's End or whatever is appropriate. I am not trying to argue that building Wriggles on Shyvana is WRONG, I just want to know why that is the case. In general, what is the benefit of getting Wriggles on fast clear junglers like Shyvana, Mundo, and Skarner? Especially in the case of Mundo I am curious what people think of Wriggles on him - TOO gets Wriggles on Mundo whereas Saint does not. The double attack/reset from her q makes stealing buffs/doing baron and dragon insanely fast with wriggles. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Parametric
Canada1261 Posts
On March 14 2012 01:39 Kyo Yuy wrote: On the topic of Shyvana, I'm curious - why do high level players build Wriggles on Shyvana? I always thought that one of the benefits of AOE fast clear junglers is that they don't NEED Wriggles which gives them room to build other items, like GP10s or Wit's End or whatever is appropriate. 1 items slot for sustain + buff/dragon control. The extra damage, armor and ward are just a bonuses, it also speeds up counter jungling where you don't want a full AoE clear, you mainly just want their buffs and a few other creeps. | ||
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Schwopzi
Netherlands954 Posts
On March 14 2012 01:47 Shikyo wrote: Well if TOO gets wriggles on mundo and SV doesnt it basically means you should avoid wriggles on him like the plague Shyvana needs a form of sustain (plus double attack from q = somanyprocs). Mundo gets his sustain naturally from health through his passive + ult. | ||
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seRapH
United States9756 Posts
edit: If you get atma's then double crit wriggles proc = wtf lol | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Glaceau
Wales333 Posts
if there's a lee sin on the other team he's gonna steal it with Q and smite and you cant do anything about it. | ||
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On March 14 2012 02:01 Sabin010 wrote: If you start Cloth 5 pot your don't have many options for that cloth, Razers, Aegis, GA are the ones that come to mind. Ninja Tabi, Randuin's Omen are both good. Oh yeah and LOCKET OF THE IRON SOLARI !11 ! | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On March 14 2012 01:54 seRapH wrote: Shyvana could have the potentially highest single target nuke on a creep when she gets wriggles. I'm pretty sure that shyv q double proc wriggles > wriggles crit > feast > consume > smite. If the first two weren't random it'd be seriously broken. edit: If you get atma's then double crit wriggles proc = wtf lol What junglers are you getting 575 damage crits on with reasonable itemization? Not to mention Baron has 120 armor and 70 MR, so you'd actually need a 1500 damage crit for a Wriggle's crit to do more than 1k to Baron. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On March 14 2012 02:13 TheYango wrote: What junglers are you getting 575 damage crits on with reasonable itemization? Not to mention Baron has 120 armor and 70 MR, so you'd actually need a 1500 damage crit for a Wriggle's crit to do more than 1k to Baron. Pretty obvious he's talking about a single proc. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
So what? He said that a wriggles crit deals more dmg than feast | ||
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