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On February 13 2012 07:15 Sponkz wrote:
How does gp lose against irelia? Just go all-out agressive and pressure her so hard before she hits 3 and you win
Or more likely give fb to jungler.
Pretty easy to play passive. If irelia isn't silly you'll push lane trying to go agressive and then she just waits at tower, farms the creeps there, and level 3 is around the time jungler is level 4 and double buffs. or close enough.
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On February 10 2012 23:38 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
In a solo lane, is there anything that counters caitlyn or lux in lane? Lux just fires bindings till she hits, and if she doesn't runs away till her cd is back. It's hard to trade evenly with cait bcuz of her range.
I guess this isn't really a counterpick since you never know when a cait is gonna solo.
I mean I didn't really lose lane.. cait got ganked and died a few times :p, lux never really got kills, I just couldn't trade them effectively.
I havent played enough vs cait solo
But I've destroyed several Luxes md with LB, they cant hit you well enough with skillshots because of dash and are so squishy you can force them out or kill them outright in a few dash combos especially after you get ult. Lux just cant handle taking the guaranteed damage LB outputs with targeted skills.
I imagine LB would do fine vs cait too, as you can get in and out before cait has time to use her DPS over time to retaliate, also its cool to block cait ult with leblanc clone. Cait could just stand right in the creep wave and deny farm like a bitch, but any jungle pressure would lead to easy kills for the LB.
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On February 13 2012 03:15 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 03:12 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
Can we add Gangplank and nunu as counters to pantheon?
Nunu's that max iceball with a few points into consume can outsustain pantheon's harass and zone them from cs.
I've heard it's supposed to be similar for GPs. no. GP isn't even remotely a counter to panth. GP can be more annoying for panth to deal with than some other champs, but he is not a counter in any sense of the word.
My mistake. I think nunu still stands though. I don't know if GP can zone pantheon as I don't own GP so I don't know about that matchup.
I think I agree with the leblanc thing on both accounts ^ thx.
On February 13 2012 03:38 Navi wrote:LeBlanc: (Mid) + Show Spoiler +By looking at LeBlanc's strengths and weaknesses, we can identify characteristics that would make any given laner strong against her.
LeBlanc has no sustain to note. Her pushing power without using her ultimate on her W is very limited, and to reliably proc her silence, she usually must throw herself into close range with her W.
She has great ability to burst down most APs, especially in combination with her silence, which usually interferes with an enemy AP's ability to respond in turn.
She also has great mobility to dodge skillshots and ganks with her W and its active, making it so that overcommitting will often be remediable with activating her W.
Morgana's black shield hurts LeBlanc's very easily read silencing combo, which in turn allows her to counterharass or kill LeBlanc whereas most other casters would be running around silenced during this duration - combined with her innate sustain and pushing power, this matchup usually makes for a very unhappy LeBlanc. For example, if LeBlanc should Q Morgana and Morgana uses Black Shield before Leblanc jumps and proceeds to land her Q, she can attempt to land a binding; if it should land, she can deal hefty damage with pool and even ultimate if she so desires. Unless Morgana wastes her shield to block small harass or gets low in lane, she should have very low threat of dying with enough Mres from runes.
Soraka outsustains, pushes, and harasses LeBlanc, as she does to many other laners. Her great sustain makes it so that LeBlanc's trademark burst is of little threat to herself (she can even silence LeBlanc before she uses a second spell after a Q). As per usual, your best shot against Soraka is to get a gank against her if she pushes herself beyond the halfway line in mid.
Orianna has decent sustain against LeBlanc with her E, and far outranges and outpushes LeBlanc if she should desire to do so. This range advantage with blue buff makes her a valuable pick against LeBlanc, in lane and later in the game as well.
Janna's shield and extremely early long range pushing power as an AP mid make it so that she can farm in safety while forcing LeBlanc to overextend if she should desire to harass Janna, making LeBlanc an easy gank while getting good CS.
Karma uses E
Its super effective!
Karma uses Mantra - Q
Its super effective!
(Morgana 2.0 with easier to land harass and no CC redux)
Mordekaiser - extreme pushing, free protection from LeBlanc's harassment, and damage in return.
Midwick - trades damage at high efficiency, never gets low, can harass and zone LeBlanc at will after his E procs while having a method to shut down and commit for the kill against LeBlanc post 6. thx to mcmilo for suggestionz
If morgana can block leblanc's harass, then leblanc can dodge one of morgana's dark bindings and move up right next to her without any fear of retaliation from her. At this point Morgana has to use her black shield since a leblanc Q from point blank range can't be reacted to quickly enough. Then morgana will have to go back to her tower until her shield is off cooldown. Then leblanc can max W and really stay even with morgana in terms of farm so the only quality differentiating the two is whether you'd prefer Morgana's ultimate in teamfights or leblanc's abilitiy to burst squishies. I don't think it's as cut and dry as one beats the other.
I dunno, I've rarely laned this matchup and I feel like from morgana's perspective, I'm just forcing bad players who don't take advantage of my weaknesses, to last hit at their tower. I'm not really winning my lane.
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On February 13 2012 08:18 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 03:15 barbsq wrote:On February 13 2012 03:12 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
Can we add Gangplank and nunu as counters to pantheon?
Nunu's that max iceball with a few points into consume can outsustain pantheon's harass and zone them from cs.
I've heard it's supposed to be similar for GPs. no. GP isn't even remotely a counter to panth. GP can be more annoying for panth to deal with than some other champs, but he is not a counter in any sense of the word. My mistake. I think nunu still stands though. I don't know if GP can zone pantheon as I don't own GP so I don't know about that matchup. I think I agree with the leblanc thing on both accounts ^ thx. Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 03:38 Navi wrote:LeBlanc: (Mid) + Show Spoiler +By looking at LeBlanc's strengths and weaknesses, we can identify characteristics that would make any given laner strong against her.
LeBlanc has no sustain to note. Her pushing power without using her ultimate on her W is very limited, and to reliably proc her silence, she usually must throw herself into close range with her W.
She has great ability to burst down most APs, especially in combination with her silence, which usually interferes with an enemy AP's ability to respond in turn.
She also has great mobility to dodge skillshots and ganks with her W and its active, making it so that overcommitting will often be remediable with activating her W.
Morgana's black shield hurts LeBlanc's very easily read silencing combo, which in turn allows her to counterharass or kill LeBlanc whereas most other casters would be running around silenced during this duration - combined with her innate sustain and pushing power, this matchup usually makes for a very unhappy LeBlanc. For example, if LeBlanc should Q Morgana and Morgana uses Black Shield before Leblanc jumps and proceeds to land her Q, she can attempt to land a binding; if it should land, she can deal hefty damage with pool and even ultimate if she so desires. Unless Morgana wastes her shield to block small harass or gets low in lane, she should have very low threat of dying with enough Mres from runes.
Soraka outsustains, pushes, and harasses LeBlanc, as she does to many other laners. Her great sustain makes it so that LeBlanc's trademark burst is of little threat to herself (she can even silence LeBlanc before she uses a second spell after a Q). As per usual, your best shot against Soraka is to get a gank against her if she pushes herself beyond the halfway line in mid.
Orianna has decent sustain against LeBlanc with her E, and far outranges and outpushes LeBlanc if she should desire to do so. This range advantage with blue buff makes her a valuable pick against LeBlanc, in lane and later in the game as well.
Janna's shield and extremely early long range pushing power as an AP mid make it so that she can farm in safety while forcing LeBlanc to overextend if she should desire to harass Janna, making LeBlanc an easy gank while getting good CS.
Karma uses E
Its super effective!
Karma uses Mantra - Q
Its super effective!
(Morgana 2.0 with easier to land harass and no CC redux)
Mordekaiser - extreme pushing, free protection from LeBlanc's harassment, and damage in return.
Midwick - trades damage at high efficiency, never gets low, can harass and zone LeBlanc at will after his E procs while having a method to shut down and commit for the kill against LeBlanc post 6. thx to mcmilo for suggestionz If morgana can block leblanc's harass, then leblanc can dodge one of morgana's dark bindings and move up right next to her without any fear of retaliation from her. At this point Morgana has to use her black shield since a leblanc Q from point blank range can't be reacted to quickly enough. Then morgana will have to go back to her tower until her shield is off cooldown. Then leblanc can max W and really stay even with morgana in terms of farm so the only quality differentiating the two is whether you'd prefer Morgana's ultimate in teamfights or leblanc's abilitiy to burst squishies. I don't think it's as cut and dry as one beats the other. I dunno, I've rarely laned this matchup and I feel like from morgana's perspective, I'm just forcing bad players who don't take advantage of my weaknesses, to last hit at their tower. I'm not really winning my lane.
not winning ur lane but not losing your lane = winning vs leblanc lul as long as she doesn't go crazy and kill all your sidelanes
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On February 13 2012 08:18 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 03:38 Navi wrote:LeBlanc: (Mid) + Show Spoiler +By looking at LeBlanc's strengths and weaknesses, we can identify characteristics that would make any given laner strong against her.
LeBlanc has no sustain to note. Her pushing power without using her ultimate on her W is very limited, and to reliably proc her silence, she usually must throw herself into close range with her W.
She has great ability to burst down most APs, especially in combination with her silence, which usually interferes with an enemy AP's ability to respond in turn.
She also has great mobility to dodge skillshots and ganks with her W and its active, making it so that overcommitting will often be remediable with activating her W.
Morgana's black shield hurts LeBlanc's very easily read silencing combo, which in turn allows her to counterharass or kill LeBlanc whereas most other casters would be running around silenced during this duration - combined with her innate sustain and pushing power, this matchup usually makes for a very unhappy LeBlanc. For example, if LeBlanc should Q Morgana and Morgana uses Black Shield before Leblanc jumps and proceeds to land her Q, she can attempt to land a binding; if it should land, she can deal hefty damage with pool and even ultimate if she so desires. Unless Morgana wastes her shield to block small harass or gets low in lane, she should have very low threat of dying with enough Mres from runes.
Soraka outsustains, pushes, and harasses LeBlanc, as she does to many other laners. Her great sustain makes it so that LeBlanc's trademark burst is of little threat to herself (she can even silence LeBlanc before she uses a second spell after a Q). As per usual, your best shot against Soraka is to get a gank against her if she pushes herself beyond the halfway line in mid.
Orianna has decent sustain against LeBlanc with her E, and far outranges and outpushes LeBlanc if she should desire to do so. This range advantage with blue buff makes her a valuable pick against LeBlanc, in lane and later in the game as well.
Janna's shield and extremely early long range pushing power as an AP mid make it so that she can farm in safety while forcing LeBlanc to overextend if she should desire to harass Janna, making LeBlanc an easy gank while getting good CS.
Karma uses E
Its super effective!
Karma uses Mantra - Q
Its super effective!
(Morgana 2.0 with easier to land harass and no CC redux)
Mordekaiser - extreme pushing, free protection from LeBlanc's harassment, and damage in return.
Midwick - trades damage at high efficiency, never gets low, can harass and zone LeBlanc at will after his E procs while having a method to shut down and commit for the kill against LeBlanc post 6. thx to mcmilo for suggestionz If morgana can block leblanc's harass, then leblanc can dodge one of morgana's dark bindings and move up right next to her without any fear of retaliation from her. At this point Morgana has to use her black shield since a leblanc Q from point blank range can't be reacted to quickly enough. Then morgana will have to go back to her tower until her shield is off cooldown. Then leblanc can max W and really stay even with morgana in terms of farm so the only quality differentiating the two is whether you'd prefer Morgana's ultimate in teamfights or leblanc's abilitiy to burst squishies. I don't think it's as cut and dry as one beats the other. I dunno, I've rarely laned this matchup and I feel like from morgana's perspective, I'm just forcing bad players who don't take advantage of my weaknesses, to last hit at their tower. I'm not really winning my lane.
Morgana is about as good as you can get vs LB, which is all about not dying in lane. All morgana wants to do is afkpush with pool and use black shield to reduce LB's burst. Morgana is pretty uniquivicably a much better lategame and teamfight champ. There is no way LB should be able to keep up in farm, W is on a long cooldown and she has to be very careful about blowing her only escape/initiate on creeps. Its not hard for morgana to stay far enough back to avoid being jumped almost directly on by LB, and even if you react slowly with black shield you will still block the second and much greater half of LB's combo(her ult). In fact its better to be slow to shield vs LB as you will avoid being baited. Morgana should never kill LB without jungle help, but thats not the point at all. She just outfarms and doesn't die while out-utilitying LB lategame and locking her in a an unproductive lane. Plus lategame spellsield on your AD is a fucking nightmare for LB.
I have beaten several bad Morgana's in lane with LB, but if you face a good one its very annoying and unproductive.
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so I just got raped in lane vs talon as ahri mid. I know talon counters most AP mids, but god DAMN I couldn't land any of my skill shots.
Who counters talon mid?
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On February 11 2012 11:59 sinii wrote:
Any tips on Mordekaiser? Had some troubles with him top/mid as of late.
Garen. Q - Spin2win beats morde CLEAN, even with his shield up. He'll either have to e the minions, which pushes the lane up and allow to zone him for free, or he'll hug the tower and will have to use skills to steal last hit, which pushes the lane up at least to the first side bush (his side), and then you just q-e him back to his tower. Any dmg you take you just heal up in a bush somewhere.
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On February 13 2012 07:15 Sponkz wrote:
How does gp lose against irelia? Just go all-out agressive and pressure her so hard before she hits 3 and you win
Even assuming you are playing in a 20 MIN NO GANK game, irelia will still survive till 3 with a cloth 5 standard rune/mastries opening. And if you are playing in a game where irelia has a decent ganker as jungler, you just handed her FB or blew flash so now you are forced to just farm. I would say an ire vs GP lane is heavily skill dependent. Irelia might come out of lane with a CS advantage but GP couldve helped his team more with his ult.
An attack speed / MR specced irelia can also win handily against rumble/kennen. I love when people counterpick irelia with rumble. First 2 backs - 2 null mantles and return to lane with 100 MR, wards, and enough pots to refuse feeding any kills. Third back - wits end. No need to ever back again and always take half of rumble's HP with 1 combo. Repeat for kennen.
As for countering irelia, I would pick vlad or nasus
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On February 13 2012 12:41 spacemonkey4eve wrote:
so I just got raped in lane vs talon as ahri mid. I know talon counters most AP mids, but god DAMN I couldn't land any of my skill shots.
Who counters talon mid?
Why couldn't you hit skillshots? He has no mobility skills at all other than his jump on you....which is on a ~20 second CD. You outrange his longest skill by 180,100, 275....and he has no innate sustain. I can't imagine what would make him beat ahri in lane other than you just running up to him. Just poke him with QW all day long, if he jumps on you you wait until 1sec silence is over then charm him as he tries to back off and hit him with full combo. Stay defensive and abuse your range until he gets low enough then just ult all over him.
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On February 13 2012 16:11 sob3k wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 12:41 spacemonkey4eve wrote:
so I just got raped in lane vs talon as ahri mid. I know talon counters most AP mids, but god DAMN I couldn't land any of my skill shots.
Who counters talon mid? Why couldn't you hit skillshots? He has no mobility skills at all other than his jump on you....which is on a ~20 second CD. You outrange his longest skill by 180,100, 275....and he has no innate sustain. I can't imagine what would make him beat ahri in lane other than you just running up to him. Just poke him with QW all day long, if he jumps on you you wait until 1sec silence is over then charm him as he tries to back off and hit him with full combo. Stay defensive and abuse your range until he gets low enough then just ult all over him.
I know I'm guilty of this too, but you use a lot of theorycraft. For all we know Talon is using his R in his combos so he stealths and gains movement speed and ahri can't hit him in time. It's also possible that Talon is running behind creeps in the 1 second silence he gets.
You kind of have to play the matchup before you can say ahri counters talon.
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On February 13 2012 08:18 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 03:15 barbsq wrote:On February 13 2012 03:12 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
Can we add Gangplank and nunu as counters to pantheon?
Nunu's that max iceball with a few points into consume can outsustain pantheon's harass and zone them from cs.
I've heard it's supposed to be similar for GPs. no. GP isn't even remotely a counter to panth. GP can be more annoying for panth to deal with than some other champs, but he is not a counter in any sense of the word. My mistake. I think nunu still stands though. I don't know if GP can zone pantheon as I don't own GP so I don't know about that matchup.
GP can't do anything at all against Pantheon. Parrrley is blocked by Pantheon's shield, so Pantheon wins pretty much every exchange. At best GP can farm if he plays hyper passively and eventually be more useful, but even that can be difficult if your jungler doesn't aid you.
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Will update with Navi's posts soon. He's the only one really contributing without just rambling nonsense >.>
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On February 13 2012 20:42 zer0das wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2012 08:18 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:On February 13 2012 03:15 barbsq wrote:On February 13 2012 03:12 Hidden_MotiveS wrote:
Can we add Gangplank and nunu as counters to pantheon?
Nunu's that max iceball with a few points into consume can outsustain pantheon's harass and zone them from cs.
I've heard it's supposed to be similar for GPs. no. GP isn't even remotely a counter to panth. GP can be more annoying for panth to deal with than some other champs, but he is not a counter in any sense of the word. My mistake. I think nunu still stands though. I don't know if GP can zone pantheon as I don't own GP so I don't know about that matchup. GP can't do anything at all against Pantheon. Parrrley is blocked by Pantheon's shield, so Pantheon wins pretty much every exchange. At best GP can farm if he plays hyper passively and eventually be more useful, but even that can be difficult if your jungler doesn't aid you.
The thing is we are talking about hard counters, Gp can still just farm normally with panth around, panths stun + hss combo gets denied by oranges, and if you just parley minions or panth when he doesn't have shield you still deal a lot of damage.
Gp might have to open cloth + 5, it might be one of the harder match ups but I wouldn't say Gp gets countered by panth specifically.
I mean the mana costs and total mana of spear and parrrley are pretty much the same, if gp just farms with q and gets w on a high level early panth wont get any kills.
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I was responding to the sentence "I don't know if GP can zone Pantheon" which he certainly can't without the Pantheon being criminally awful. It is the other way around, barring a lot of work on the part of the GP.
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That is true, I think Panth versus Gp is pretty even and greatly depends on how well they know to use their ults.
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Does anyone have any thoughts on Jax as a counter to Rumble? I laned as Jax against a Rumble yesterday for the first time and did very well. I opened d-blade, 30-offense, and ignite/heal. I did not even even use flat mres runes (I need to invest in some). With this set up, I felt like I could flat out overpower Rumble, and I quickly took over the lane in CS and champ kills, forcing the enemy jungler to intervene repeatedly to help even things out. My skill order was WQEW.
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Lux: (Mid)
+ Show Spoiler +As a midlaner, Lux has great range and harassment at later levels. Her early levels suffer from a lack of sustain and long CDs on her Q and W, which makes trading harassment difficult against people who have stronger sustain or greater reliably land-able harassment.
Gangplank, if he should decide to go mid, is a very strong counter to Lux. With his high base movespeed with his E passive and active, escape mechanism from W, and his reliable (sometimes critting) nuke in Q, he is able to trade and abuse Lux with ease. Lux cannot commit, even post 6, without jungler aid due to GP's W. Lux simply gets out-harassed and traded, and can eventually be forced out of CS range by GP.
Quoth MCMilo:
Ahri, KAYLE, leblanc, nidalee, veigar, vladimir is severely disadvantageous for lux
Besides the usual gay fuck sustain toplaners irelia, yorick warwick going mid to make people mad
Ahri: Obvious all your shit are skillshots and she move around LIKE A BITCH therefore u are scared pussy at lvl 6, and even before that her skillshot MISSILE SPEED is superior to your binding so unless ahri is a retard 9-tail woman bitch is being gay and fuckin you up
[10:32] <@Liquid_Pandas> Kayle: only problem is that SHE HAS A 2 SECOND INVINCIBLE
[10:33] <@Liquid_Pandas> your shit are obvious when it will land (HIIIIIYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 3 second yelling animation) so easy to ult that lazor shit
[10:33] <@Liquid_Pandas> and lvl 2 u are scared pussy cuz kayle is a boss at lvl 2 damage
[10:33] <@Liquid_Pandas> Q and E insane gay
[10:34] <@Liquid_Pandas> and kayle just increases in damage every level (cuz of Q) like an AP carry so it doesn't get any better for you, 3shot you liek a baws
[10:36] <@Liquid_Pandas> leblanc: here is a more skill dependent matchup, though still heavily favoring lebonk. Only reason it is skill dependent is cuz her silence only procs from 2 of her spells, so reaction binding her is key into not being a noob and dying because lux's baseline survivability is pretty shit.
[10:38] <@Liquid_Pandas> General thought: Lux might LOOK like a wave clearer with E, but that is only possible if you are able to autoattack the ranged minions, so enemies like lebonk ahri nidalee FUCK U UP cuz u will never autoattack ranged minions unless they bad
[10:40] <@Liquid_Pandas> Another General thought: Same with leblanc, her CC and total burst damage is very crucial during JUNGLE GANKS / COUNTERGANKS so even if u have one of these pretty disadvanageous lanes, keep being diligent and stay in the game because of her counterkilling ability with an extra person with you
[10:41] <@Liquid_Pandas> Nidalee: obviously GAY AS FUCK, don't need explanation becuz u know nidalee nubiter kk.
[10:42] <@Liquid_Pandas> Veigurrrr: ahhh another way of Lux's binding missile speed abuse, his E stun is fking long and instant so its super gay because if u counter harass he can be a bic pr0 and dodge your shit and its like UH OH HE CAN 100-0 ME CUZ MY BASELINE SURVIVABILITY IS VERY BAD
[10:43] <@Liquid_Pandas> you CAN wave clear with R, but veigar has GREAT tower last hit with Q and W
[10:43] <@Liquid_Pandas> yeh, he will fking own u later when veigar has ulti and you dont
[10:44] <@Liquid_Pandas> Vladimir: ah yes, ONCE AGAIN ANOTHER TESTAMENT TO LUX'S TERRIBLE Q MISSILE SPEED
[10:44] <@Liquid_Pandas> POOL UNDER THAT SHIT DAWG
[10:44] <@Liquid_Pandas> THEN HE OWNZ U
Too lazy to edit it into human speak, voila
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On February 14 2012 01:38 randomKo_Orean wrote:
Pantheon mid vs AP carry
-Orianna and Brand counters Pantheon really easily.Their spells do stupid amounts of dmg early game, so avoid it if you can!
It's not only about the damage, or an Annie spec'ing AP runes with her ridiculous cooldown would trash Pantheon as well. But Brand, for exemple, has a disposable stun that he's sure to land on Panth were he to W onto him. This way Panth can't go so aggressive because he's got less range, and he'll eat a full combo if he tries to do his own.
For those reasons, I guess Xerath can do well against Panth too.
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As per request: please welcome MCMilo
*clap clap clap*
Veigar: (Mid)
+ Show Spoiler +In pre-6 laning, Veigar has a decent nuke in Q, strong but unreliable damage in W, and an AoE CC E which is good for aiding ganks and escaping them as well. His overall damage is mediocre in both range and damage at early levels (as using E to set up W is mana-inefficient), but his burst becomes considerably large at 6 and beyond. Opponents who can punish his relative weakness and lack of sustain pre-6 are usually your best bets against Veigar. Picking an AP that goes pure AP against Veigar always has the 25 minute and beyond threat of getting 1 shotted, so keep that in mind as well. [11:26] <Liquid_Pandas_> THEY FUCK VEIGAR UP DAWG: Annie, Cassio, Leblanc, Ryze, Soraka [11:28] <Liquid_Pandas_> Ok, obviously Veigar is not the strongest of the AP carries in the lane, as I have omitted MANY heroes/champions that would FUCK HIM UP (gp, talon, galio, nidalee) for obvious reasons that really shouldn't be explained any further than mentioning their names [11:30] <Liquid_Pandas_> Annie: What a fking little girl. Veigar hates little girls, he likes big AP carry women like Ahri when he can burst her at will (not intended) after lvl 6. But, Annie is a meanie little bastard who likes to burst people down FASTER and BETTER than you until you get your AP count going [11:31] <Liquid_Pandas_> She roams better than you, she clears better than you and she CAN kill you with sorc shoes (13mr blues good for this matchup???) with ultimate. Just an all round big fucked up lane for veigar. [11:32] <artthoumadbro> bic girl [11:35] <Liquid_Pandas_> Cassio: SNAKE WOMEN!!! LOL! dont you dare try pick veigar vs cassio unless you like being yelled at by your team. The main problem for this matchup is the AP burst versus the AP sustained damage. CASSIOPEIA IS GAY AND SHE WILL OWNS U until you get your AP going (oooh i like trends!). [11:37] <Liquid_Pandas_> OR, Cassio is smarter than you imagine, not going for those AP items, but for smaller utility based items (WotA, Rylai, Abyssal), that makes veigar go FROWNY FACE. So getting your AP going is ALSO useless against a smart cassio ready to deviate from a retarded set build that she wrote on a note card below her keyboard. [11:38] <Liquid_Pandas_> Leblanc: FUCK THAT SILENCE y0. She fast, she super more burst than you until you get your AP going (MORE TRENDS). But surprise! How can you get your AP going if she absolutely poops on you early? Congrats, you just walked into counter lane. YAYYYYY [11:40] <Liquid_Pandas_> Roaming power, and when she sits on mid she can poop on you. EVEN HER PASSIVE HELLA GAY cuz when u get a chance to kill her, she do the passive illusion and your shit is single target (W has to be casted right after E anyways it will most likely hit only her and then procs her illusions is what i am trying to get at in here). WAT DO SIR? U DONT DO SHIT MAN. zizi yO
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EPT
