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Heed these two simple warnings. It will help make our GD a better place. Consider this fair notice to all users. Warning will be dished out this patch. Thanks. Neo, 31.01.12 |
On February 07 2012 09:43 Shikyo wrote:
I really would be surprised if a Yi with a decent 6 item build like Warmog, Atmas, PD PD PD BT lost to a 6 item Tristana. He runs faster than her jump so all he'd need to do is Alpha Strike right after she ults
That's a pretty terrible build, you've got over 100% crit chance and no Infinity Edge?
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On February 07 2012 10:48 Alzadar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 09:43 Shikyo wrote:
I really would be surprised if a Yi with a decent 6 item build like Warmog, Atmas, PD PD PD BT lost to a 6 item Tristana. He runs faster than her jump so all he'd need to do is Alpha Strike right after she ults That's a pretty terrible build, you've got over 100% crit chance and no Infinity Edge?
Ya it even isnt specifically a 1v1 build but a regular one I might use in a real game
Triforce is better than a third PD though, however 436 movespeed feels a bit lower than I'd like in a normal game that's why no IE
Of course if you build that you one-shot the tristana with double strike so maybe that's how you should build in 1v1
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On February 07 2012 10:01 hunger wrote:
Servers have been a complete fucking joke for the past week or so. Well, they have been a complete joke for years but it has been particularly awful for the past week. Peak hour games are getting lagged to shit every night. Completely unacceptable and they won't use Loss Forgiven either, and somehow my team always has one more lagger. Lmao. Rawr so frustrating.
On February 07 2012 10:31 Two_DoWn wrote:
What did they do to the servers last week. I mean WTF.
thank goodness this isn't just my problem. Ever since the Zigg's patch came in I have had really, really bad latency on NA server as well as a dozen disc's in-game. Oh ya, and LoLReplay now crashes in game if I try to record my games...Dis patch
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2 people is hardly "Most of the original SK Dota" -______-
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On February 07 2012 10:36 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 10:21 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 10:07 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:01 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 09:40 Dgiese wrote:
Sounds like both Yi and Tryn did stupid stuff...
Although, I do think a late game trist should shit on tryn and yi, kiting too strong. They both have gap closers, but she has two gap creators. Kiting Yi is unnecessary. Simple right clicking after pressing Q works. With a Bloodthirster PD IE and speed steroid you get so much life steal and crit so hard that even a 6-Feast stack fully built Cho'Gath melts really fast (I've done it before). Kiting Tryn is necessary when his ult is up, but when it's down it's just another Q + right click and say good night. Let's say it's a Yi with warmog atmas PD PD Triforce BT... just hitting those 400 crits isn't going to be enough when Yi has almost twice your health and crits like 600-700s and you can't even run Vs tryndamere you again can't just right click with Q and hope you outdmg him, you somehow need to survive for 5 seconds when he kills you in 3 hits which takes less than 2 seconds in total You'll have to explain to me in clear numbers how a Master Yi building tanky can out crit and out damage a Tristana building pure damage and crit. Without runes and masteries as I was lazy: Let's take Warmog atmas PD PD Triforce BT 2.5 Aspd and double attack every 7 attacks(In 1v1 I guess he definitely would save the passive proc for this right? Just like you'll assume everyone's ulti is up). Damage is 381 without runes and masteries with 100% critrate. The first alpha strike -> double strike with trinity force proc deals a total of 300 magic damage and 1690 physical damage. 3500 hp 128 armor. With LW you'll have about 76 armor left or whatever. 25% lifesteal Trist needs some beast items Also the thing about ranged AD carries is that although they're weaker in 1v1 they have the ability to shoot from a distance and not get attacked back whereas with melee carries you usually get focused way harder
I have Master Yi doing 311 with that build
Tristana with EXACT same build does base 1.91 aspd but 3.629 aspd with Q on. Base damage 297. 93% crit rate. Rocket Jump does 274 damage and ult does 545. Explosive Shot does 250 damage over 5 seconds while cutting health regeneration effects by 50%. Starts with 3411 HP.
Trist rocket jumps as the Yi closes in then follows up with ult and Explosive Shot. Trist takes more damage in the initial exchange but Yi is knocked back with life steal cut in half. Q follow up ends up with Tristana doing more DPS than Yi while Yi has to close in - even with ult Tristana has free shots. Yi meanwhile life steals for half of what Tristana life steals and takes about 1000 damage from Trist's initial 3 abilities.
In theory Trist would win with equal items.
In practice I don't know any Master Yis that use Atmogs AND Phantom Dancer/BT (usually Yis built tanky DPS with Wriggles and Atmogs or damage with BT/PD) and I won the exchange I had with a Master Yi that built pure damage (Infinity Edge PD BT Greaves etc.).
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Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On February 07 2012 09:23 sinii wrote:
Can someone explain to me why I keep getting top pick in ranked games every time?
Top elo gets first pick right? So why do I keep getting placed with lower elo players then myself?
I want to play with people equal or better then me ffs
The matchmaking algorithm creates several bands when assigning teams. This means that the algorithm will look at who is currently in queue and then create cut-off points for each team based on the current pool of Elo. Let's say that it creates an upper bound of 1570 and a lower bound of 1430. It then extracts all players in this range and assigns the players closest to 1570 as the team captains, and the players closest to 1430 as the last picks (after adjusting for the 200 Elo variance from Blue/Purple side). People in between 1430 and 1570 are then spread across the teams created.
The algorithm adjusts bounds and distributions based on the people in queue and acceptable Elo variance. If you're consistently being first pick regardless of whether you lose or win, it suggests that when you queue you're most likely the highest Elo player amongst the people queueing when the algorithm creates the cut off points. If you really want to be lower down in picking, then it'd probably be advisable to duo with someone a bit higher than you.
On February 07 2012 07:43 0123456789 wrote:
And also, where did bear from the moon go.
Hi guys! Think I ought to answer this. I've been pretty busy lately so not been posting much. I'm also close to 5k posts and haven't got anything prepared. Chiharu has been taking good care of my Tech Thread though. However, I just want to make clear that Chiharu is not my smurf. For instance, have a read of Chiharu's signature:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/yB466.png) It's like, definitely not a lie!
The fact that Chiharu posts like me, supports the same teams as me, knows lots of Wrenchy things, responds to MoonBear PMs and all other MoonBear-esque things is totally a coincidence. Yup. Totally a coincidence.
Still not convinced? Here's a picture explaining why we're different:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/CLxIQ.png) It's like, one of Riot's Champion Skins or something.
Hope that clears up the confusion!
春風千桜 #1.
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United States47024 Posts
On February 07 2012 10:56 MoonBear wrote:
Still not convinced? Here's a picture explaining why we're different:
I think this:
![[image loading]](http://i39.tinypic.com/dey6id.jpg)
would have been appropriate.
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On February 07 2012 10:56 Kyo Yuy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 10:36 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:21 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 10:07 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:01 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 09:40 Dgiese wrote:
Sounds like both Yi and Tryn did stupid stuff...
Although, I do think a late game trist should shit on tryn and yi, kiting too strong. They both have gap closers, but she has two gap creators. Kiting Yi is unnecessary. Simple right clicking after pressing Q works. With a Bloodthirster PD IE and speed steroid you get so much life steal and crit so hard that even a 6-Feast stack fully built Cho'Gath melts really fast (I've done it before). Kiting Tryn is necessary when his ult is up, but when it's down it's just another Q + right click and say good night. Let's say it's a Yi with warmog atmas PD PD Triforce BT... just hitting those 400 crits isn't going to be enough when Yi has almost twice your health and crits like 600-700s and you can't even run Vs tryndamere you again can't just right click with Q and hope you outdmg him, you somehow need to survive for 5 seconds when he kills you in 3 hits which takes less than 2 seconds in total You'll have to explain to me in clear numbers how a Master Yi building tanky can out crit and out damage a Tristana building pure damage and crit. Without runes and masteries as I was lazy: Let's take Warmog atmas PD PD Triforce BT 2.5 Aspd and double attack every 7 attacks(In 1v1 I guess he definitely would save the passive proc for this right? Just like you'll assume everyone's ulti is up). Damage is 381 without runes and masteries with 100% critrate. The first alpha strike -> double strike with trinity force proc deals a total of 300 magic damage and 1690 physical damage. 3500 hp 128 armor. With LW you'll have about 76 armor left or whatever. 25% lifesteal Trist needs some beast items Also the thing about ranged AD carries is that although they're weaker in 1v1 they have the ability to shoot from a distance and not get attacked back whereas with melee carries you usually get focused way harder I have Master Yi doing 311 with that build Tristana with EXACT same build does base 1.91 aspd but 3.629 aspd with Q on. Base damage 297. 93% crit rate. Rocket Jump does 274 damage and ult does 545. Explosive Shot does 250 damage over 5 seconds while cutting health regeneration effects by 50%. Starts with 3411 HP. Trist rocket jumps as the Yi closes in then follows up with ult and Explosive Shot. Trist takes more damage in the initial exchange but Yi is knocked back with life steal cut in half. Q follow up ends up with Tristana doing more DPS than Yi while Yi has to close in - even with ult Tristana has free shots. Yi meanwhile life steals for half of what Tristana life steals and takes about 1000 damage from Trist's initial 3 abilities. In theory Trist would win with equal items. In practice I don't know any Master Yis that use Atmogs AND Phantom Dancer/BT (usually Yis built tanky DPS with Wriggles and Atmogs or damage with BT/PD) and I won the exchange I had with a Master Yi that built pure damage (Infinity Edge PD BT Greaves etc.). Oh sorry yeah it was only 93% critrate
ASPD caps at 2.5 and Yi's E gives 70 dmg... Meaning he deals like 164 damage more per hit with more base armor and hp?
I think you're forgetting about cast time, after alpha and the double strike(Nope you can't ult before doublestrike, the animation's too long) she's like 3 hits from death. Should be able to hit once before getting ulted back, but even if he doesn't trist can't waste time on the jump or explosive shot as during those animations she gets hit like 1-2 times per ability while dealing very insignificant damage.. And after 3 more hits the double strike at the very least finishes her off
I'm not sure why you're even arguing about this >_> That isn't even a 1v1 build that's a normal build that I'd use in a real game just fine.
If you want a 1v1 build specifically for that purpose, ignoring the rest of the game for Yi vs Tristana:
IE IE IE IE IE BT
691 damage with 100% crit chance with 250% crit damage. Alpha strike -> double strike deals a total of 300 magic damage and 3455 physical damage. She gets oneshot if she gets in the range of Alpha Strike
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On February 07 2012 11:12 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 10:56 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 10:36 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:21 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 10:07 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:01 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 09:40 Dgiese wrote:
Sounds like both Yi and Tryn did stupid stuff...
Although, I do think a late game trist should shit on tryn and yi, kiting too strong. They both have gap closers, but she has two gap creators. Kiting Yi is unnecessary. Simple right clicking after pressing Q works. With a Bloodthirster PD IE and speed steroid you get so much life steal and crit so hard that even a 6-Feast stack fully built Cho'Gath melts really fast (I've done it before). Kiting Tryn is necessary when his ult is up, but when it's down it's just another Q + right click and say good night. Let's say it's a Yi with warmog atmas PD PD Triforce BT... just hitting those 400 crits isn't going to be enough when Yi has almost twice your health and crits like 600-700s and you can't even run Vs tryndamere you again can't just right click with Q and hope you outdmg him, you somehow need to survive for 5 seconds when he kills you in 3 hits which takes less than 2 seconds in total You'll have to explain to me in clear numbers how a Master Yi building tanky can out crit and out damage a Tristana building pure damage and crit. Without runes and masteries as I was lazy: Let's take Warmog atmas PD PD Triforce BT 2.5 Aspd and double attack every 7 attacks(In 1v1 I guess he definitely would save the passive proc for this right? Just like you'll assume everyone's ulti is up). Damage is 381 without runes and masteries with 100% critrate. The first alpha strike -> double strike with trinity force proc deals a total of 300 magic damage and 1690 physical damage. 3500 hp 128 armor. With LW you'll have about 76 armor left or whatever. 25% lifesteal Trist needs some beast items Also the thing about ranged AD carries is that although they're weaker in 1v1 they have the ability to shoot from a distance and not get attacked back whereas with melee carries you usually get focused way harder I have Master Yi doing 311 with that build Tristana with EXACT same build does base 1.91 aspd but 3.629 aspd with Q on. Base damage 297. 93% crit rate. Rocket Jump does 274 damage and ult does 545. Explosive Shot does 250 damage over 5 seconds while cutting health regeneration effects by 50%. Starts with 3411 HP. Trist rocket jumps as the Yi closes in then follows up with ult and Explosive Shot. Trist takes more damage in the initial exchange but Yi is knocked back with life steal cut in half. Q follow up ends up with Tristana doing more DPS than Yi while Yi has to close in - even with ult Tristana has free shots. Yi meanwhile life steals for half of what Tristana life steals and takes about 1000 damage from Trist's initial 3 abilities. In theory Trist would win with equal items. In practice I don't know any Master Yis that use Atmogs AND Phantom Dancer/BT (usually Yis built tanky DPS with Wriggles and Atmogs or damage with BT/PD) and I won the exchange I had with a Master Yi that built pure damage (Infinity Edge PD BT Greaves etc.). Oh sorry yeah it was only 93% critrate ASPD caps at 2.5 and Yi's E gives 70 dmg... Meaning he deals like 164 damage more per hit with more base armor and hp? I think you're forgetting about cast time, after alpha and the double strike(Nope you can't ult before doublestrike, the animation's too long) she's like 3 hits from death. Should be able to hit once before getting ulted back, but even if he doesn't trist can't waste time on the jump or explosive shot as during those animations she gets hit like 1-2 times per ability while dealing very insignificant damage.. And after 3 more hits the double strike at the very least finishes her off I'm not sure why you're even arguing about this >_> That isn't even a 1v1 build that's a normal build that I'd use in a real game just fine. If you want a 1v1 build specifically for that purpose, ignoring the rest of the game for Yi vs Tristana: IE IE IE IE IE BT 691 damage with 100% crit chance with 250% crit damage. Alpha strike -> double strike deals a total of 300 magic damage and 3455 physical damage. She gets oneshot if she gets in the range of Alpha Strike
If we're theorycrafting stupid builds in a 1v1 vacuum then imo a better build would be IE IE IE IE BT BT. You'll get 20 more damage and 25% more lifesteal out of that. IE gives 25% crit each and the 250% crit damage doesn't stack so there's no point in getting more than 4 IEs.
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On February 07 2012 11:19 Ryuu314 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 11:12 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:56 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 10:36 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:21 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 10:07 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:01 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 09:40 Dgiese wrote:
Sounds like both Yi and Tryn did stupid stuff...
Although, I do think a late game trist should shit on tryn and yi, kiting too strong. They both have gap closers, but she has two gap creators. Kiting Yi is unnecessary. Simple right clicking after pressing Q works. With a Bloodthirster PD IE and speed steroid you get so much life steal and crit so hard that even a 6-Feast stack fully built Cho'Gath melts really fast (I've done it before). Kiting Tryn is necessary when his ult is up, but when it's down it's just another Q + right click and say good night. Let's say it's a Yi with warmog atmas PD PD Triforce BT... just hitting those 400 crits isn't going to be enough when Yi has almost twice your health and crits like 600-700s and you can't even run Vs tryndamere you again can't just right click with Q and hope you outdmg him, you somehow need to survive for 5 seconds when he kills you in 3 hits which takes less than 2 seconds in total You'll have to explain to me in clear numbers how a Master Yi building tanky can out crit and out damage a Tristana building pure damage and crit. Without runes and masteries as I was lazy: Let's take Warmog atmas PD PD Triforce BT 2.5 Aspd and double attack every 7 attacks(In 1v1 I guess he definitely would save the passive proc for this right? Just like you'll assume everyone's ulti is up). Damage is 381 without runes and masteries with 100% critrate. The first alpha strike -> double strike with trinity force proc deals a total of 300 magic damage and 1690 physical damage. 3500 hp 128 armor. With LW you'll have about 76 armor left or whatever. 25% lifesteal Trist needs some beast items Also the thing about ranged AD carries is that although they're weaker in 1v1 they have the ability to shoot from a distance and not get attacked back whereas with melee carries you usually get focused way harder I have Master Yi doing 311 with that build Tristana with EXACT same build does base 1.91 aspd but 3.629 aspd with Q on. Base damage 297. 93% crit rate. Rocket Jump does 274 damage and ult does 545. Explosive Shot does 250 damage over 5 seconds while cutting health regeneration effects by 50%. Starts with 3411 HP. Trist rocket jumps as the Yi closes in then follows up with ult and Explosive Shot. Trist takes more damage in the initial exchange but Yi is knocked back with life steal cut in half. Q follow up ends up with Tristana doing more DPS than Yi while Yi has to close in - even with ult Tristana has free shots. Yi meanwhile life steals for half of what Tristana life steals and takes about 1000 damage from Trist's initial 3 abilities. In theory Trist would win with equal items. In practice I don't know any Master Yis that use Atmogs AND Phantom Dancer/BT (usually Yis built tanky DPS with Wriggles and Atmogs or damage with BT/PD) and I won the exchange I had with a Master Yi that built pure damage (Infinity Edge PD BT Greaves etc.). Oh sorry yeah it was only 93% critrate ASPD caps at 2.5 and Yi's E gives 70 dmg... Meaning he deals like 164 damage more per hit with more base armor and hp? I think you're forgetting about cast time, after alpha and the double strike(Nope you can't ult before doublestrike, the animation's too long) she's like 3 hits from death. Should be able to hit once before getting ulted back, but even if he doesn't trist can't waste time on the jump or explosive shot as during those animations she gets hit like 1-2 times per ability while dealing very insignificant damage.. And after 3 more hits the double strike at the very least finishes her off I'm not sure why you're even arguing about this >_> That isn't even a 1v1 build that's a normal build that I'd use in a real game just fine. If you want a 1v1 build specifically for that purpose, ignoring the rest of the game for Yi vs Tristana: IE IE IE IE IE BT 691 damage with 100% crit chance with 250% crit damage. Alpha strike -> double strike deals a total of 300 magic damage and 3455 physical damage. She gets oneshot if she gets in the range of Alpha Strike If we're theorycrafting stupid builds in a 1v1 vacuum then imo a better build would be IE IE IE IE BT BT. You'll get 20 more damage and 25% more lifesteal out of that. IE gives 25% crit each and the 250% crit damage doesn't stack so there's no point in getting more than 4 IEs.
Yep you're correct, my fault. Could actually even make it boots of swiftness with 4 IEs and a BT and you'd still oneshot her and she couldn't run
BTW this is totally unrelated but I actually saw someone build Zeke's herald! It was a master yi who thought it was still Starks <_< He became quite mad
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That CLG Dota 2 team is an incredible lineup. Pakjatt is a LEGEND. Hell, everyone on that team is a legend. That's really exciting, good for Georgey,
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On February 07 2012 11:22 Shikyo wrote:
BTW this is totally unrelated but I actually saw someone build Zeke's herald! It was a master yi who thought it was still Starks <_< He became quite mad
Zeke's Herald is a pretty good item on Nasus.
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On February 07 2012 11:12 Shikyo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 10:56 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 10:36 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:21 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 10:07 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:01 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 09:40 Dgiese wrote:
Sounds like both Yi and Tryn did stupid stuff...
Although, I do think a late game trist should shit on tryn and yi, kiting too strong. They both have gap closers, but she has two gap creators. Kiting Yi is unnecessary. Simple right clicking after pressing Q works. With a Bloodthirster PD IE and speed steroid you get so much life steal and crit so hard that even a 6-Feast stack fully built Cho'Gath melts really fast (I've done it before). Kiting Tryn is necessary when his ult is up, but when it's down it's just another Q + right click and say good night. Let's say it's a Yi with warmog atmas PD PD Triforce BT... just hitting those 400 crits isn't going to be enough when Yi has almost twice your health and crits like 600-700s and you can't even run Vs tryndamere you again can't just right click with Q and hope you outdmg him, you somehow need to survive for 5 seconds when he kills you in 3 hits which takes less than 2 seconds in total You'll have to explain to me in clear numbers how a Master Yi building tanky can out crit and out damage a Tristana building pure damage and crit. Without runes and masteries as I was lazy: Let's take Warmog atmas PD PD Triforce BT 2.5 Aspd and double attack every 7 attacks(In 1v1 I guess he definitely would save the passive proc for this right? Just like you'll assume everyone's ulti is up). Damage is 381 without runes and masteries with 100% critrate. The first alpha strike -> double strike with trinity force proc deals a total of 300 magic damage and 1690 physical damage. 3500 hp 128 armor. With LW you'll have about 76 armor left or whatever. 25% lifesteal Trist needs some beast items Also the thing about ranged AD carries is that although they're weaker in 1v1 they have the ability to shoot from a distance and not get attacked back whereas with melee carries you usually get focused way harder I have Master Yi doing 311 with that build Tristana with EXACT same build does base 1.91 aspd but 3.629 aspd with Q on. Base damage 297. 93% crit rate. Rocket Jump does 274 damage and ult does 545. Explosive Shot does 250 damage over 5 seconds while cutting health regeneration effects by 50%. Starts with 3411 HP. Trist rocket jumps as the Yi closes in then follows up with ult and Explosive Shot. Trist takes more damage in the initial exchange but Yi is knocked back with life steal cut in half. Q follow up ends up with Tristana doing more DPS than Yi while Yi has to close in - even with ult Tristana has free shots. Yi meanwhile life steals for half of what Tristana life steals and takes about 1000 damage from Trist's initial 3 abilities. In theory Trist would win with equal items. In practice I don't know any Master Yis that use Atmogs AND Phantom Dancer/BT (usually Yis built tanky DPS with Wriggles and Atmogs or damage with BT/PD) and I won the exchange I had with a Master Yi that built pure damage (Infinity Edge PD BT Greaves etc.). I'm not sure why you're even arguing about this >_> That isn't even a 1v1 build that's a normal build that I'd use in a real game just fine.
You named 8 or so champions that you claimed would easily defeat Tristana 1 on 1, I mentioned that I beat 2 of those champions in real games, you said that those 2 champions would in theory completely destroy Tristana in a 1v1 (claiming to crit for double Tristana's crit) and I asked for justification.
You are right in that the argument ultimately has no point, because in reality I dominate any bruiser champion late game as Tristana (if anything, BURST champions like most AP carries give me a hard time). Perhaps your theorycrafting holds merit in reality, in which case you've just discovered a new meta that makes AD carries obsolete and you should start using your Master Yi build in solo queue and climb to high ELO by popping R, Alpha Striking the enemy carries and not die because you'd have 3500 HP and be immune to CC for 12 seconds so you could just take out the enemy carries with your uber move speed and inability to be slowed or stunned.
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On February 07 2012 10:56 MoonBear wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 07 2012 09:23 sinii wrote:
Can someone explain to me why I keep getting top pick in ranked games every time?
Top elo gets first pick right? So why do I keep getting placed with lower elo players then myself?
I want to play with people equal or better then me ffs The matchmaking algorithm creates several bands when assigning teams. This means that the algorithm will look at who is currently in queue and then create cut-off points for each team based on the current pool of Elo. Let's say that it creates an upper bound of 1570 and a lower bound of 1430. It then extracts all players in this range and assigns the players closest to 1570 as the team captains, and the players closest to 1430 as the last picks (after adjusting for the 200 Elo variance from Blue/Purple side). People in between 1430 and 1570 are then spread across the teams created. The algorithm adjusts bounds and distributions based on the people in queue and acceptable Elo variance. If you're consistently being first pick regardless of whether you lose or win, it suggests that when you queue you're most likely the highest Elo player amongst the people queueing when the algorithm creates the cut off points. If you really want to be lower down in picking, then it'd probably be advisable to duo with someone a bit higher than you. On February 07 2012 07:43 0123456789 wrote:
And also, where did bear from the moon go. Hi guys! Think I ought to answer this. I've been pretty busy lately so not been posting much. I'm also close to 5k posts and haven't got anything prepared. Chiharu has been taking good care of my Tech Thread though. However, I just want to make clear that Chiharu is not my smurf. For instance, have a read of Chiharu's signature: It's like, definitely not a lie! The fact that Chiharu posts like me, supports the same teams as me, knows lots of Wrenchy things, responds to MoonBear PMs and all other MoonBear-esque things is totally a coincidence. Yup. Totally a coincidence. Still not convinced? Here's a picture explaining why we're different: It's like, one of Riot's Champion Skins or something. Hope that clears up the confusion! 春風千桜 #1.
I just googled 春風千桜 and I got a bunch of loli. I'm glad Chiharu isn't you or I'd think you were a pedo. Close one 
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I built Zeke's on Irelia. With AS runes. After Wit's end, and Wriggles, and some other stuff that made me think "Hey, I hit hard and got resists and all, but against burst champs I'd like some HP". Then I saw the CDR and AS. "Welp, I'll try".
25+% lifesteal and hiten style on 1.9 AS was kinda fun. Killed Rammus through DCB before he decided to stack some HP.
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The matchmaking algorithm creates several bands when assigning teams. This means that the algorithm will look at who is currently in queue and then create cut-off points for each team based on the current pool of Elo. Let's say that it creates an upper bound of 1570 and a lower bound of 1430. It then extracts all players in this range and assigns the players closest to 1570 as the team captains, and the players closest to 1430 as the last picks (after adjusting for the 200 Elo variance from Blue/Purple side). People in between 1430 and 1570 are then spread across the teams created.
The algorithm adjusts bounds and distributions based on the people in queue and acceptable Elo variance. If you're consistently being first pick regardless of whether you lose or win, it suggests that when you queue you're most likely the highest Elo player amongst the people queueing when the algorithm creates the cut off points. If you really want to be lower down in picking, then it'd probably be advisable to duo with someone a bit higher than you.
What's the deal with that blue/purple side variance?
Does it really create a 200 elo difference on each side? That honestly seems quite high for something that in all honesty makes very little difference even across pro games.
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On February 07 2012 11:33 Kyo Yuy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 11:12 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:56 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 10:36 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:21 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 10:07 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:01 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 09:40 Dgiese wrote:
Sounds like both Yi and Tryn did stupid stuff...
Although, I do think a late game trist should shit on tryn and yi, kiting too strong. They both have gap closers, but she has two gap creators. Kiting Yi is unnecessary. Simple right clicking after pressing Q works. With a Bloodthirster PD IE and speed steroid you get so much life steal and crit so hard that even a 6-Feast stack fully built Cho'Gath melts really fast (I've done it before). Kiting Tryn is necessary when his ult is up, but when it's down it's just another Q + right click and say good night. Let's say it's a Yi with warmog atmas PD PD Triforce BT... just hitting those 400 crits isn't going to be enough when Yi has almost twice your health and crits like 600-700s and you can't even run Vs tryndamere you again can't just right click with Q and hope you outdmg him, you somehow need to survive for 5 seconds when he kills you in 3 hits which takes less than 2 seconds in total You'll have to explain to me in clear numbers how a Master Yi building tanky can out crit and out damage a Tristana building pure damage and crit. Without runes and masteries as I was lazy: Let's take Warmog atmas PD PD Triforce BT 2.5 Aspd and double attack every 7 attacks(In 1v1 I guess he definitely would save the passive proc for this right? Just like you'll assume everyone's ulti is up). Damage is 381 without runes and masteries with 100% critrate. The first alpha strike -> double strike with trinity force proc deals a total of 300 magic damage and 1690 physical damage. 3500 hp 128 armor. With LW you'll have about 76 armor left or whatever. 25% lifesteal Trist needs some beast items Also the thing about ranged AD carries is that although they're weaker in 1v1 they have the ability to shoot from a distance and not get attacked back whereas with melee carries you usually get focused way harder I have Master Yi doing 311 with that build Tristana with EXACT same build does base 1.91 aspd but 3.629 aspd with Q on. Base damage 297. 93% crit rate. Rocket Jump does 274 damage and ult does 545. Explosive Shot does 250 damage over 5 seconds while cutting health regeneration effects by 50%. Starts with 3411 HP. Trist rocket jumps as the Yi closes in then follows up with ult and Explosive Shot. Trist takes more damage in the initial exchange but Yi is knocked back with life steal cut in half. Q follow up ends up with Tristana doing more DPS than Yi while Yi has to close in - even with ult Tristana has free shots. Yi meanwhile life steals for half of what Tristana life steals and takes about 1000 damage from Trist's initial 3 abilities. In theory Trist would win with equal items. In practice I don't know any Master Yis that use Atmogs AND Phantom Dancer/BT (usually Yis built tanky DPS with Wriggles and Atmogs or damage with BT/PD) and I won the exchange I had with a Master Yi that built pure damage (Infinity Edge PD BT Greaves etc.). I'm not sure why you're even arguing about this >_> That isn't even a 1v1 build that's a normal build that I'd use in a real game just fine. You named 8 or so champions that you claimed would easily defeat Tristana 1 on 1, I mentioned that I beat 2 of those champions in real games, you said that those 2 champions would in theory completely destroy Tristana in a 1v1 (claiming to crit for double Tristana's crit) and I asked for justification. You are right in that the argument ultimately has no point, because in reality I dominate any bruiser champion late game as Tristana (if anything, BURST champions like most AP carries give me a hard time). Perhaps your theorycrafting holds merit in reality, in which case you've just discovered a new meta that makes AD carries obsolete and you should start using your Master Yi build in solo queue and climb to high ELO by popping R, Alpha Striking the enemy carries and not die because you'd have 3500 HP and be immune to CC for 12 seconds so you could just take out the enemy carries with your uber move speed and inability to be slowed or stunned.
Why all the sarcasm?
There's nothing magical about having a build that can 1v1 well against another (typical AD carry) build, and there's no reason to assume that such a build would have some sort of mysterious ELO-increasing capacity. There are also AP characters who, when fully built, can take down a fully built trist 1v1, that does not mean that those characters "make AD carries obsolete" and are some sort of "new meta".
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On February 07 2012 11:49 bmn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 07 2012 11:33 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 11:12 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:56 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 10:36 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:21 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 10:07 Shikyo wrote:On February 07 2012 10:01 Kyo Yuy wrote:On February 07 2012 09:40 Dgiese wrote:
Sounds like both Yi and Tryn did stupid stuff...
Although, I do think a late game trist should shit on tryn and yi, kiting too strong. They both have gap closers, but she has two gap creators. Kiting Yi is unnecessary. Simple right clicking after pressing Q works. With a Bloodthirster PD IE and speed steroid you get so much life steal and crit so hard that even a 6-Feast stack fully built Cho'Gath melts really fast (I've done it before). Kiting Tryn is necessary when his ult is up, but when it's down it's just another Q + right click and say good night. Let's say it's a Yi with warmog atmas PD PD Triforce BT... just hitting those 400 crits isn't going to be enough when Yi has almost twice your health and crits like 600-700s and you can't even run Vs tryndamere you again can't just right click with Q and hope you outdmg him, you somehow need to survive for 5 seconds when he kills you in 3 hits which takes less than 2 seconds in total You'll have to explain to me in clear numbers how a Master Yi building tanky can out crit and out damage a Tristana building pure damage and crit. Without runes and masteries as I was lazy: Let's take Warmog atmas PD PD Triforce BT 2.5 Aspd and double attack every 7 attacks(In 1v1 I guess he definitely would save the passive proc for this right? Just like you'll assume everyone's ulti is up). Damage is 381 without runes and masteries with 100% critrate. The first alpha strike -> double strike with trinity force proc deals a total of 300 magic damage and 1690 physical damage. 3500 hp 128 armor. With LW you'll have about 76 armor left or whatever. 25% lifesteal Trist needs some beast items Also the thing about ranged AD carries is that although they're weaker in 1v1 they have the ability to shoot from a distance and not get attacked back whereas with melee carries you usually get focused way harder I have Master Yi doing 311 with that build Tristana with EXACT same build does base 1.91 aspd but 3.629 aspd with Q on. Base damage 297. 93% crit rate. Rocket Jump does 274 damage and ult does 545. Explosive Shot does 250 damage over 5 seconds while cutting health regeneration effects by 50%. Starts with 3411 HP. Trist rocket jumps as the Yi closes in then follows up with ult and Explosive Shot. Trist takes more damage in the initial exchange but Yi is knocked back with life steal cut in half. Q follow up ends up with Tristana doing more DPS than Yi while Yi has to close in - even with ult Tristana has free shots. Yi meanwhile life steals for half of what Tristana life steals and takes about 1000 damage from Trist's initial 3 abilities. In theory Trist would win with equal items. In practice I don't know any Master Yis that use Atmogs AND Phantom Dancer/BT (usually Yis built tanky DPS with Wriggles and Atmogs or damage with BT/PD) and I won the exchange I had with a Master Yi that built pure damage (Infinity Edge PD BT Greaves etc.). I'm not sure why you're even arguing about this >_> That isn't even a 1v1 build that's a normal build that I'd use in a real game just fine. You named 8 or so champions that you claimed would easily defeat Tristana 1 on 1, I mentioned that I beat 2 of those champions in real games, you said that those 2 champions would in theory completely destroy Tristana in a 1v1 (claiming to crit for double Tristana's crit) and I asked for justification. You are right in that the argument ultimately has no point, because in reality I dominate any bruiser champion late game as Tristana (if anything, BURST champions like most AP carries give me a hard time). Perhaps your theorycrafting holds merit in reality, in which case you've just discovered a new meta that makes AD carries obsolete and you should start using your Master Yi build in solo queue and climb to high ELO by popping R, Alpha Striking the enemy carries and not die because you'd have 3500 HP and be immune to CC for 12 seconds so you could just take out the enemy carries with your uber move speed and inability to be slowed or stunned. Why all the sarcasm? There's nothing magical about having a build that can 1v1 well against another (typical AD carry) build, and there's no reason to assume that such a build would have some sort of mysterious ELO-increasing capacity. There are also AP characters who, when fully built, can take down a fully built trist 1v1, that does not mean that those characters "make AD carries obsolete" and are some sort of "new meta".
It's actually not sarcasm. Sometimes new meta is created by people having the wildest theories and it works out. For example, IE was generally considered to be the first thing you're "supposed" to build on AD carries and now Genja has popularized the 3 Dorans into Wriggles build.
Likewise AD carries used to solo mid, and now the meta has shifted away from that.
Sometimes the theory has a point. As much as I don't agree with Shikyo I think that if his idea has merit he should test it out and see if it can start a new trend. Seriously.
AP carries are the bane of my existence when I play AD carry. But in the instance of AP carries, they don't make AD carries obsolete because the theory is that you need both AP and AD so the enemy has to build both armor and magic resist and can't just build one.
However, the vast majority of bruisers are AD and if bruisers can do MORE DPS than an AD carry while simultaneously gap closing AND bursting down one, that immediately wipes the AD carry out of the fight making it a 5v4. If AD carries can get instagibbed by bruisers so easily then AD carries can become obsolete because bruisers are mostly AD.
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rofl, TSM running double jungle ranked 5s
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FYI double strike can't crit, so a master YI with IE IE IE IE BT BT will only do ~500 more damage on a double strike attack.
Also Trist can auto attack at least twice before Master Yi gets in alpha strike range because 600 range on a spell is roughly equivelent to 500 range on an auto attack. As a result Master Yi will die first because he's already more than two attacks behind the Trist.
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EPT
